What heresey is this?

[RileyG]

That Jesus is not fully God and fully human. Rather he is half God and half human, and that the Holy Virgin was not the Mother of God, but the bearer of Christ only? Is it Nestorianism?

Thanks

 

[buzuxi02]

There was never a heresy like that in the Church but smacks closely to the original version of Arianism dealt with in Nicea 325ad.

Arianism stated there was a time the Logos was not and thus unlike the Father. They also believed Christ did not have a human mind.

 

[Kristos]

I don't think there was ever anyone who said Christ is 50/50...but the whole Christotokos thing was Nestorius.

 

[xenia]

the Holy Virgin was not the Mother of God, but the bearer of Christ only? Is it Nestorianism?

^^^ This is Nestorianism. Mary is Christotokos, not Theotokos, they wrongly say.

As for the 50-50 bit, never heard of it said like that before.

However, I did hear a famous Protestant radio celebrity state at my old evangelical church that Christ was not born from one of Mary's eggs. That's heretical, too, because if Christ is not really the son of Mary, he's not the son of David or the son of Abraham or the son of Adam and not a Jew or even a real human person.

 

[SeventhValley]

^^^ This is Nestorianism. Mary is Christotokos, not Theotokos, they wrongly say.

As for the 50-50 bit, never heard of it said like that before.

However, I did hear a famous Protestant radio celebrity state at my old evangelical church that Christ was not born from one of Mary's eggs. That's heretical, too, because if Christ is not really the son of Mary, he's not the son of David or the son of Abraham or the son of Adam and not a Jew or even a real human person.

I thought he was only the son of David through Joseph?

12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
M, the husband of atthan the father of Jacob, 16 and Jacob the father of JosephMary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

 

[buzuxi02]

The bearer of Christ = Christotokos was nestorian

the 50/50 thing sounds like greek mythology about demigods like hercules.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it sounds like a cross between Nestorianism (Christotokos) and the 50/50 thing sounds like Monophysitism in a way (although not totally).

I thought he was only the son of David through Joseph?

legally. Joseph and Mary were of the same tribe, so she was the decedent of David as well. but Joseph, being the male, was the one who gave Christ the legal claim to be the heir of David.

 

[Shiranui117]

Maybe Apollinarianism is an influence, or Docetism?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Welcome to TAW Jeopardy. For our Final Jeopardy questions we have.....
Name that heresy!

"what is iconoclasm, Alex!!!"

"Ooooh, sorry Steve. The answer is Monothelitism. Pick a new category."

"I'll take Beards and Baklavas for $400, Alex..."

 

[RileyG]

Thank you everyone!

 

[RileyG]

^^^ This is Nestorianism. Mary is Christotokos, not Theotokos, they wrongly say.

As for the 50-50 bit, never heard of it said like that before.

However, I did hear a famous Protestant radio celebrity state at my old evangelical church that Christ was not born from one of Mary's eggs. That's heretical, too, because if Christ is not really the son of Mary, he's not the son of David or the son of Abraham or the son of Adam and not a Jew or even a real human person.

So basically Nestorianism is saying The Holy Virgin gave birth to Christ's humanity only and not his divinity?

 

[buzuxi02]

That is correct. Which would mean Christ had a human hypostasy and a divine Hypostasis (logos), being two seperate persons. The human body being a sort of receptacle for the Divinity

 

[ArmyMatt]

So basically Nestorianism is saying The Holy Virgin gave birth to Christ's humanity only and not his divinity?

kinda. Nestorianism says that Mary gave birth to the human Person Christ, and not the Divine Person. so two Persons and Two Natures, aside from One Person in Two Natures. she did only give birth to His Humanity, but that Humanity was united to a Divine Person. hope that makes sense.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There are many ways to think about it. Mary IS Christotokos, if you mean Christ as defined as Jesus as both fully God and man. There is no untruth there. She is also Theotokos, if you also mean Christ as defined as Jesus being fully both God and man. The problems arise when you start claiming that Mary was the origin of His Godhead or splitting Christ into different formulas of being. Also, pre-incarnation, was Jesus fully human? I mean John 1 explains it very well.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There are many ways to think about it. Mary IS Christotokos, if you mean Christ as defined as Jesus as both fully God and man. There is no untruth there. She is also Theotokos, if you also mean Christ as defined as Jesus being fully both God and man. The problems arise when you start claiming that Mary was the origin of His Godhead or splitting Christ into different formulas of being. Also, pre-incarnation, was Jesus fully human? I mean John 1 explains it very well.

yeah, but according to St John of Damascus we cannot only rightly call her Christotokos, since Christ means anointed and there are many of them in Scripture (David's mother, Saul's mother, etc). the reason we only call her Theotokos is because that is what makes her unique, and her role so important.

 

[dzheremi]

Now that I have reached 50 posts and should be able to post videos, I just want to post the following video in this thread, for the edification of all involved. It is from Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation's "Sects of Lebanon" series, that tells the history of the 18 recognized religious sects of that country, and this piece tells about the Assyrians of that country, who are one of those sects. It is interesting because I know there are some in the modern day who have tried to rehabilitate the Nestorians/Church of the East, saying that perhaps Nestorius was unfairly judged, or at any rate that the Church of the East has not historically believed what is said about them by their Orthodox opponents. Since the OP is from the Roman Catholic Church, who are probably chief among the major churches who are seeking to do this (I have even had some apostates from Orthodoxy tell me on other forums that I was wrong to continue to call them that, because they're not heretical...), it might be of significant interest to him. Please notice how they not only approve of Nestorius, but even use the language he is known to have used when they say in the video that you cannot say that when Jesus was six years old, God was six years old (Nestorius is recorded to have said that he would not worship a six month old God or some such nonsense).

The Assyrians of Lebanon (on the fallout from the Council of Ephesus): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0mP9gMrL0o

 

[RileyG]

Thanks everyone!