What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife?

[Hestha]

I actually have a series of questions, each of which is related:

1. What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife?
2. If the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife, then does that you mean your life of prayer, thinking that the god exists, is all but a futile effort to talk with "God" but really is your imagination at work?
3. Why are you so convinced that there is an afterlife and the Christian god will judge you there?
4. Why do you firmly believe that the Christian god exists and all other gods are false? Do you think that makes you less tolerant of other religions, as a way of saying "My god is better than your god, because my god is REAL, while your god is soooooo fake! Loser!"?
5. Do you think all the Abrahamic religions worship one god but have different methods to worship that one god? Why do you think Christianity is the "best one"? Please do not say "God called me", or I'll laugh at you for providing that as a response.
6. Some Christians believe that the Romans killed Jesus. Some Christians believe that the Jews killed Jesus. In the book of Acts, I recall that the apostles accused the Jews of killing Jesus, and the book largely treats Christianity as if it were a Jewish denomination rather than an entirely separate religion from Judaism. Speaking as a non-Christian, I think Judas killed Jesus. He betrayed Jesus, which led to the crucifixion. However, in one part of the book of John, it says somewhere alone the lines of having Satan's entering Judas's body. So, that would imply that Satan or sin killed Jesus. Therefore, it is wrongful to conclude that the Romans or the Jews or the early Christians killed Jesus. Sin killed Jesus. And Jesus went up to the cross, and Christians believed (and still do) that he died for their sake and twisted that logic so it sounded like that he died for all of humanity's sake, as if everyone has sinned in the world and fall short under the glory of the Jewish-Christian god, Yahweh. Who or what do you think killed Jesus? On the other hand, maybe Jesus deserved to die. If he weren't, then you wouldn't have people worshipping him in the first place and thinking him as a martyr or "king" of the Jewish people.
7. If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?
8. Many times in the book of Acts, the disciples preach the gospel to many people, whom I suspect to be members of different branches of Judaism or all descendants (or spiritual descendants) of Abraham. They presumably believe that the Messiah would come one day, and the Messianic age would be the age of peace. Well, tough luck. Christianity has been around 2000 years, and I think Jews have it right. Jesus is probably not the Messiah. If he were, then suffering would have long ended. The early Christians were most likely brainwashed. My question is, why did they accept Jesus as the Christ so uncritically? I suspect that it's largely due to their socially marginalized state to begin with, and the disciples probably took advantage of the socially marginalized people (i.e. the eunuch, which is a castrated man) and converted them, even though the scripture just said that the "Holy Spirit" changed their hearts or made them "believe". When you are in a desperate situation, you'd believe anything, including all sorts of falsehoods.

 

[talitha]

I will answer as best I can.

1. What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife? That is not a possibility. I have been through my doubts and come out the other side. It was not pretty. If God does not exist, then life is not worth living, IMHO. I'm glad he does. I noticed something in the phrasing of your question - the addition of the words "in the afterlife". It seems you are looking at this from a very linear perspective, but what may be termed the afterlife is actually not an endpoint but a universe of existence outside this tiny speck that some people call "the real world"......
2. If the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife, then does that you mean your life of prayer, thinking that the god exists, is all but a futile effort to talk with "God" but really is your imagination at work?
   Yes.
3. Why are you so convinced that there is an afterlife and the Christian god will judge you there?
   My spirit knows. It's hard to explain, but once the spirit has been made alive in Christ, it recognizes and knows truth - there is no need for intellectual reasoning.
4. Why do you firmly believe that the Christian god exists and all other gods are false?
   The truth is exclusive. There is no allowance in Christianity for alternative realities.
   Do you think that makes you less tolerant of other religions, as a way of saying "My god is better than your god, because my god is REAL, while your god is soooooo fake! Loser!"?
   Yes, it is true, I am not tolerant of other religions. I believe they are tricks that lead many people into destruction. Why would I want to be tolerant of that kind of cruel trick? I don't feel like the person in your quote who seems about to say "nanner-nanner!" I feel very sad that people are deceived by these things.
5. Do you think all the Abrahamic religions worship one god but have different methods to worship that one god?
   NO. I worship the same God as the Jews, but Allah is not the same god.
   Why do you think Christianity is the "best one"?
   Jesus did not come to abolish Judaism but to fulfill the prophecies and to be the sacrifice that all the sacrifices prior had pointed to. It is actually not possible for a Jewish person to live in obedience to Yahweh without accepting Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice. Islam is something else altogether - it is a fake religion made up by a man who desired prominence and who unwittingly created a position for a demon to come and fill. Islam to me is the most cruel trick of a relgion of all of them.
6. Sin killed Jesus.
   You are right about that.
   And Jesus went up to the cross, and Christians believed (and still do) that he died for their sake and twisted that logic so it sounded like that he died for all of humanity's sake, as if everyone has sinned in the world and fall short under the glory of the Jewish-Christian god, Yahweh.
   That is correct, except for the "twisted that logic so it sounded like" part. It is true that all mankind sins and falls short of the destiny God has for us.
   Who or what do you think killed Jesus?
   Jesus' death was the plan all along. Scripture refers to him as "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".
7. If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?
   That's an easy one, because I have been through that when I was younger - I believed I had to delude myself in order to believe, and I was not willing to do that, but I was distressed about it, because part of me was also unwilling to let go of it. Thanks be to God who pulled me up out of that.
8. My question is, why did they accept Jesus as the Christ so uncritically?
   because it is the spirit that accepts truth, not the mind.
   I suspect that it's largely due to their socially marginalized state to begin with, and the disciples probably took advantage of the socially marginalized people (i.e. the eunuch, which is a castrated man) and converted them, even though the scripture just said that the "Holy Spirit" changed their hearts or made them "believe".
   I am currently reading the book of Acts myself, and I am impressed at the variety in the people who accepted the gospel message. Unless you cast off the parts of Acts that indicate that soldiers and business people and other upstanding members of society accepted it, you can't miss that.

 

[elman]

=

Hestha;61109287]I actually have a series of questions, each of which is related:

1. What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife?

1. I suspect we will then all be dead when we die.
   
   

   If the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife, then does that you mean your life of prayer, thinking that the god exists, is all but a futile effort to talk with "God" but really is your imagination at work?

2. Perhaps but the life of love and compassion for others commanded by Jesus is the best way to live weather God exists or not.
   
   

   Why are you so convinced that there is an afterlife and the Christian god will judge you there?

3. I am convinced we exist for a reason and have a destiny other than meaningless oblivion.
   
   

   Why do you firmly believe that the Christian god exists and all other gods are false?

   If our Creator is not good and loving, then I find it more reasonable to assume no Creator than to assume an evil Creator.
   
   

   Do you think that makes you less tolerant of other religions, as a way of saying "My god is better than your god, because my god is REAL, while your god is soooooo fake! Loser!"?

4. Perhaps. I do not respect religions that encourage us to act unlovingly toward each other.
   
   

   Do you think all the Abrahamic religions worship one god but have different methods to worship that one god? Why do you think Christianity is the "best one"? Please do not say "God called me", or I'll laugh at you for providing that as a response.

5. I think there is only one way to worship a loving Creator and that is in being loving toward the creation. Jesus it seems to me taught this more clearly than the other religions including the other Abrahamic religions.
   
   

   Some Christians believe that the Romans killed Jesus. Some Christians believe that the Jews killed Jesus. In the book of Acts, I recall that the apostles accused the Jews of killing Jesus, and the book largely treats Christianity as if it were a Jewish denomination rather than an entirely separate religion from Judaism. Speaking as a non-Christian, I think Judas killed Jesus. He betrayed Jesus, which led to the crucifixion. However, in one part of the book of John, it says somewhere alone the lines of having Satan's entering Judas's body. So, that would imply that Satan or sin killed Jesus. Therefore, it is wrongful to conclude that the Romans or the Jews or the early Christians killed Jesus. Sin killed Jesus. And Jesus went up to the cross, and Christians believed (and still do) that he died for their sake and twisted that logic so it sounded like that he died for all of humanity's sake, as if everyone has sinned in the world and fall short under the glory of the Jewish-Christian god, Yahweh. Who or what do you think killed Jesus?

   I think the Romans killed Jesus encouraged by the Jews and assisted by Judus. I don't believe in the existence of Satan or evil spirits. I think Jesus contributed to His own death by being willing to place himself in a position that could be interpreted as a threat to Rome and by insulting the Jewish leadership.
   
   

   On the other hand, maybe Jesus deserved to die. If he weren't, then you wouldn't have people worshipping him in the first place and thinking him as a martyr or "king" of the Jewish people.

6. All human beings die physically, being mortal. Jesus was mortal and was destined to die physically as a mortal. If Jesus was divine as I believe He was also destined to live forever spiritually and I believe He demonstrated by His life and teaching that we all can live forever spiritually.
   
   

   If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?

7. Then I will have made incorrect assumptions about reallity, but I will still have lived my life as it should be lived.
   
   

   Many times in the book of Acts, the disciples preach the gospel to many people, whom I suspect to be members of different branches of Judaism or all descendants (or spiritual descendants) of Abraham. They presumably believe that the Messiah would come one day, and the Messianic age would be the age of peace. Well, tough luck. Christianity has been around 2000 years, and I think Jews have it right. Christ is probably not the Messiah. If he were, then suffering would have long ended.

   Jesus did not promise the end of suffering in this world. Many if not most early Christians did not expect an end of suffering in this world. They did expect their physical death to not be oblivion for them, but the beginning of eternal life with God.
   
   

   The early Christians were most likely brainwashed. My question is, why did they accept Jesus as the Christ so uncritically? I suspect that it's largely due to their socially marginalized state to begin with, and the disciples probably took advantage of the socially marginalized people (i.e. the eunuch, which is a castrated man) and converted them, even though the scripture just said that the "Holy Spirit" changed their hearts or made them "believe". When you are in a desperate situation, you'd believe anything, including all sorts of falsehoods.

People did not accept Jesus uncritically while He lived nor after. Many reject Him in both cases. True He was effective among the poor and mistreated. His message and focus was to help the poor and mistreated. I don't think the Eunuch was a marginalized person. He seemed to be well to do. I don't think God or the Holy Spirit ever forces anyone to accept the teachings of Jesus and follow them as best they can. We are given the ability by God to chose between right and wrong--never does God force us to either choice. Jesus encouraged us to make the right choices.

 

[Hestha]

Perhaps but the life of love and compassion for others commanded by Jesus is the best way to live weather God exists or not.

Are you implying that it is possible to remain an irreligious/unspiritual/atheist/agnostic person who does good deeds in the world can still go to heaven?

I am convinced we exist for a reason and have a destiny other than meaningless oblivion.

You remind me of this psychological blog article that I've read before: CLICK HERE. I find the conclusion most insightful: "Interestingly, in another study, the researchers were able to get people who had thought about death to favor evolution if these people were exposed to information suggesting that an evolutionary approach to studying the natural world can provide a sense of personal meaning. According to the researchers, what this suggests is that if people do not perceive evolution as a threat to meaning in life, but instead see it as a way of finding personal meaning by understanding our world and where we come from, then people might be less resistant to science. In other words, being sensitive to people's existential needs for meaning and purpose may be critical to successfully educating people about scientific evidence that challenges long held assumptions about the world." The problem is, how do you do it? I suppose the only way is through philosophical discussion. Perhaps, philosophy is the alternative to religion.

I don't think God or the Holy Spirit ever forces anyone to accept the teachings of Jesus and follow them as best they can. We are given the ability by God to chose between right and wrong--never does God force us to either choice. Jesus encouraged us to make the right choices.

Of course not. Neither Christianity nor Islam is about forcing people to convert. Doing so would be unbiblical or antithetical to scripture. The problem is, Christianity places itself as "good", because believers think that their god is "good". By being a Christian, that person has chosen good over evil, thereby hating sin but loving the sinner, which is anyone who does not follow Christ. So, in reality, there is no choice. You have to follow Christ to be good; otherwise, you cannot be good. This sort of thinking must reject the notion that atheists/agnostics/irreligious people/non-Christians can be good, even though they can in a godless universe. Besides, I would rather be good for other people rather than be good for God's sake.

 

[SharonL]

If the Christian God does not exist in the afterlife - I will be much better off with what I believed than the person who believes there is no God and finds out too late that He does exist. I will have wasted nothing, but gained everything. The unbeliever will have wasted everything and gained nothing.

 

[Hestha]

If the Christian God does not exist in the afterlife - I will be much better off with what I believed than the person who believes there is no God and finds out too late that He does exist. I will have wasted nothing, but gained everything. The unbeliever will have wasted everything and gained nothing.

Oh. You're playing the Pascal's Wager.

 

[SharonL]

Oh. You're playing the Pascal's Wager.

Wait - I'll have to go look it up - that's a new one on me.

Looked it up - and.... you are right.

 

[food4thought]

I actually have a series of questions, each of which is related:

1. What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife?
2. If the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife, then does that you mean your life of prayer, thinking that the god exists, is all but a futile effort to talk with "God" but really is your imagination at work?
3. Why are you so convinced that there is an afterlife and the Christian god will judge you there?
4. Why do you firmly believe that the Christian god exists and all other gods are false? Do you think that makes you less tolerant of other religions, as a way of saying "My god is better than your god, because my god is REAL, while your god is soooooo fake! Loser!"?
5. Do you think all the Abrahamic religions worship one god but have different methods to worship that one god? Why do you think Christianity is the "best one"? Please do not say "God called me", or I'll laugh at you for providing that as a response.
6. Some Christians believe that the Romans killed Jesus. Some Christians believe that the Jews killed Jesus. In the book of Acts, I recall that the apostles accused the Jews of killing Jesus, and the book largely treats Christianity as if it were a Jewish denomination rather than an entirely separate religion from Judaism. Speaking as a non-Christian, I think Judas killed Jesus. He betrayed Jesus, which led to the crucifixion. However, in one part of the book of John, it says somewhere alone the lines of having Satan's entering Judas's body. So, that would imply that Satan or sin killed Jesus. Therefore, it is wrongful to conclude that the Romans or the Jews or the early Christians killed Jesus. Sin killed Jesus. And Jesus went up to the cross, and Christians believed (and still do) that he died for their sake and twisted that logic so it sounded like that he died for all of humanity's sake, as if everyone has sinned in the world and fall short under the glory of the Jewish-Christian god, Yahweh. Who or what do you think killed Jesus? On the other hand, maybe Jesus deserved to die. If he weren't, then you wouldn't have people worshipping him in the first place and thinking him as a martyr or "king" of the Jewish people.
7. If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?
8. Many times in the book of Acts, the disciples preach the gospel to many people, whom I suspect to be members of different branches of Judaism or all descendants (or spiritual descendants) of Abraham. They presumably believe that the Messiah would come one day, and the Messianic age would be the age of peace. Well, tough luck. Christianity has been around 2000 years, and I think Jews have it right. Christ is probably not the Messiah. If he were, then suffering would have long ended. The early Christians were most likely brainwashed. My question is, why did they accept Jesus as the Christ so uncritically? I suspect that it's largely due to their socially marginalized state to begin with, and the disciples probably took advantage of the socially marginalized people (i.e. the eunuch, which is a castrated man) and converted them, even though the scripture just said that the "Holy Spirit" changed their hearts or made them "believe". When you are in a desperate situation, you'd believe anything, including all sorts of falsehoods.

1) I don't know. Glad I'll never have to find out

2) could be in theory, but my imagination is just not powerful enough to have produced the effects that faith in Jesus has. Something/Someone claiming to be the Biblical God has spoken to me.

3) Fulfilled prophecy, historical evidence, and what the Bible promises is what I have experienced when I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. I believe the Bible.

4) I believe all other religions to be man made fables or demonicly empowered deceptions, but I do not have that kind of attitude... like Talitha, this makes me sad. This is also why I have no problems evangelizing a person who follows another faith, even if they are happy in that faith. I believe they are following a lie and it will almost certainly lead them to a very bad place in the afterlife.

5) No. All the Abrahamic religions are theistic, but the character and nature of the Islamic God is diametricly opposed to YHWH... I think the majority of Muslims and Jews would agree, but could be wrong.

6) Our sin put Jesus on that cross... my sin, your sin, their sin, everybody's sin. Jesus went willingly to the cross... as He said:
(John 10:18)No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


7) If there is no God, then there is no resurrection of the dead. As Paul the Apostle said:
1Co 15:13-26 NKJV But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. (14) And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. (15) Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. (16) For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. (17) And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! (18) Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. (20) But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (21) For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. (22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. (23) But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. (24) Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (25) For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. (26) The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.


The teachings of Jesus would still be meaningful to me, but I would be personally devastated... I doubt I will measure up to much in this life by the world's standards, and what I am accomplishing is being accomplished by faith that God is empowering me and leading me.

8) Believe what you will. I believe that the slight majority of the converts to Christianity after Acts 9 were pagan, which is what the context of the rest of Acts and the Epistles indicates. There was for the most part no way for the believer in the Roman or Greek gods to deal with sin, and almost everyone is conscious of their sin (failure to meet the mark of perfection). A god that is not perfect and just is just an anthropomorphism, but a perfect God who will judge righteously is a horrifying thing for a person who is conscious of their shortcomings to contemplate... this is one reason why Jesus and His offer of forgiveness of sin was so powerful to those who believed in an afterlife (many did not). There was also the small thing of the attesting miracles done by the Apostles.

Hope this helps;

Mike

 

[elman]

=Hestha;61109620]Are you implying that it is possible to remain an irreligious/unspiritual/atheist/agnostic person who does good deeds in the world can still go to heaven?

Yes.

You remind me of this psychological blog article that I've read before: CLICK HERE. I find the conclusion most insightful: "Interestingly, in another study, the researchers were able to get people who had thought about death to favor evolution if these people were exposed to information suggesting that an evolutionary approach to studying the natural world can provide a sense of personal meaning. According to the researchers, what this suggests is that if people do not perceive evolution as a threat to meaning in life, but instead see it as a way of finding personal meaning by understanding our world and where we come from, then people might be less resistant to science. In other words, being sensitive to people's existential needs for meaning and purpose may be critical to successfully educating people about scientific evidence that challenges long held assumptions about the world." The problem is, how do you do it? I suppose the only way is through philosophical discussion. Perhaps, philosophy is the alternative to religion.

I see no reason to not believe in an intelligence behind our existence, even if evolution is true.

Of course not. Neither Christianity nor Islam is about forcing people to convert. Doing so would be unbiblical or antithetical to scripture. The problem is, Christianity places itself as "good", because believers think that their god is "good". By being a Christian, that person has chosen good over evil, thereby hating sin but loving the sinner, which is anyone who does not follow Christ. So, in reality, there is no choice. You have to follow Christ to be good; otherwise, you cannot be good. This sort of thinking must reject the notion that atheists/agnostics/irreligious people/non-Christians can be good, even though they can in a godless universe. Besides, I would rather be good for other people rather than be good for God's sake.

If there is no Creator that is Good and which wrote on our hearts what good is, why is good identifiable?

 

[aiki]

What happens if the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife?

Nothing. Final justice is never meted out. The end of the righteous and the wicked is the same: oblivion.

If the Christian god does not exist in the afterlife, then does that you mean your life of prayer, thinking that the god exists, is all but a futile effort to talk with "God" but really is your imagination at work?

Yup.

Why are you so convinced that there is an afterlife and the Christian god will judge you there?

Because the Bible tells me so and I believe the BIble is the Word of God.

Why do you firmly believe that the Christian god exists and all other gods are false?

God must exist because He is the simplest and best explanation for why there is something rather than nothing. I believe all other gods are false because this is what the Bible tells me is so.

Do you think that makes you less tolerant of other religions, as a way of saying "My god is better than your god, because my god is REAL, while your god is soooooo fake! Loser!"?

No, I am not intolerant in this way. I don't think gods of other religions are real or true, but I don't sneer at those who believe in these false gods. I think such people are caught in a deception that will cost them eternally should they die in their deception. I have only compassion for such people.

Do you think all the Abrahamic religions worship one god but have different methods to worship that one god?

No. The god of the Muslims is not the God of Abraham, the God who is revealed to us in the Bible. Jews and Christians, however, do believe in the same God.

Why do you think Christianity is the "best one"? Please do not say "God called me", or I'll laugh at you for providing that as a response.

Because the God revealed to humanity in Scripture best conforms to the idea of the "greatest possible Being." WHat's more, He has intervened in human history in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, and demonstrated both His presence and His power to us through Christ.

Who or what do you think killed Jesus?

In a sense, all of the things you've mentioned killed Jesus. The Romans actually beat him bloody and nailed him to a cross, so they could be said to have killed him. The Pharisees and Sadducees were the ones who pressed for Christ's death with false witnesses and betrayal, so they could be said to have caused his death. Judas betrayed Jesus into the hands of his enemies which led to Jesus' death, so he is responsible, too. And so on. I think none of what I described could/would have happened if, 1.) Sin had not entered the world. 2.) God did not love us and want to save us from our sin.

On the other hand, maybe Jesus deserved to die. If he weren't, then you wouldn't have people worshipping him in the first place and thinking him as a martyr or "king" of the Jewish people.

No, Jesus did not deserve to die. His sacrifice for our sins would not have been possible if he had deserved to die. I don't quite understand how deserving to die makes Jesus more worthy of worship and the title of "martyr"...

If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?

Obviously, if atheism were true, Christianity would be a delusion.

Well, tough luck. Christianity has been around 2000 years, and I think Jews have it right. Christ is probably not the Messiah. If he were, then suffering would have long ended. The early Christians were most likely brainwashed.

LOL! Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

My question is, why did they accept Jesus as the Christ so uncritically? I suspect that it's largely due to their socially marginalized state to begin with, and the disciples probably took advantage of the socially marginalized people (i.e. the eunuch, which is a castrated man) and converted them, even though the scripture just said that the "Holy Spirit" changed their hearts or made them "believe". When you are in a desperate situation, you'd believe anything, including all sorts of falsehoods.

I think a man who regularly performs miracles, preaches powerfully the truth of God's Word, and who rises from the dead after being brutally killed presents very compelling reasons to be thought the Messiah. According to the Bible, it wasn't only "marginalized" people who came to faith in Christ as the Messiah.

In any case, you're free to speculate and hold whatever opinions you like.

Selah.

 

[Amber Bird]

There are a great number of very thought out responses here, so I'll keep my point brief in light of the fact you're asking for an answer that is in no wise able to be answered in this life.
What if the Christian God doesn't exist once we're dead?

Oh well.

There's not a lot to be done about it once I'm dead.

Maybe such questions is why Pascal's Wager was invented?

 

[Tucansam93]

I can't believe there are Christians that follow Pascal's Wager. Your telling me that you believe in God just to save yourself? I don't see how that is logical or even moral. It doesn't make sense as a Christian because when you are judged, God would know you believed in Him just to save yourself. That is not what Christianity stands for. I saw people in this thread calling people of other religions deluded. No wonder people don't like Christians. If you actually believe in a loving God, He wouldn't condemn people for what they don't know, and as Christians we should be teaching other people about Jesus anyways.

 

[talitha]

People of other religions have been deluded, Tucansam, and it is, as you indicated, our duty as Christians to teach them about Jesus. To pretend people have not been deluded is to disobey Jesus' Great Commission.

 

[Amber Bird]

I can't believe there are Christians that follow Pascal's Wager. Your telling me that you believe in God just to save yourself?

Actually I never said any such thing.

 

[Tnmusicman]

If Christianity be false, and atheism be true, then do you think that Christianity will still be relevant and bear meaning to you, or do you think you would have to delude yourself in order to believe?

I would have to be deluded to believe as most atheists do.

. And Jesus went up to the cross, and Christians believed (and still do) that he died for their sake and twisted that logic so it sounded like that he died for all of humanity's sake, as if everyone has sinned in the world and fall short under the glory of the Jewish-Christian god, Yahweh.

Yes, All of humanity has sinned with the exception being children that are incapable of sin at such a young age. Is there some reason you think someone in this world has not sinned?

Christ is probably not the Messiah. If he were, then suffering would have long ended

Why does Christ being the Messiah ( or not ) have anything to do with suffering ending?

 

[Hestha]

If there is no Creator that is Good and which wrote on our hearts what good is, why is good identifiable?

Good question. A wise person once told me that evil has a purpose. Without evil, there is no good, only complacence. So, if a person recognizes and understands evil, then that person can recognize and understand good and act goodly towards others.

Now, you are probably wondering about how one could identify evil. I think evil is something that is anti-social, harmful, and/or dangerously unproductive. It is unwanted, but it is needed to identify good.

 

[Tnmusicman]

Are you implying that it is possible to remain an irreligious/unspiritual/atheist/agnostic person who does good deeds in the world can still go to heaven?



You remind me of this psychological blog article that I've read before: CLICK HERE. I find the conclusion most insightful: "Interestingly, in another study, the researchers were able to get people who had thought about death to favor evolution if these people were exposed to information suggesting that an evolutionary approach to studying the natural world can provide a sense of personal meaning. According to the researchers, what this suggests is that if people do not perceive evolution as a threat to meaning in life, but instead see it as a way of finding personal meaning by understanding our world and where we come from, then people might be less resistant to science. In other words, being sensitive to people's existential needs for meaning and purpose may be critical to successfully educating people about scientific evidence that challenges long held assumptions about the world." The problem is, how do you do it? I suppose the only way is through philosophical discussion. Perhaps, philosophy is the alternative to religion.



Of course not. Neither Christianity nor Islam is about forcing people to convert. Doing so would be unbiblical or antithetical to scripture. The problem is, Christianity places itself as "good", because believers think that their god is "good". By being a Christian, that person has chosen good over evil, thereby hating sin but loving the sinner, which is anyone who does not follow Christ. So, in reality, there is no choice. You have to follow Christ to be good; otherwise, you cannot be good. This sort of thinking must reject the notion that atheists/agnostics/irreligious people/non-Christians can be good, even though they can in a godless universe. Besides, I would rather be good for other people rather than be good for God's sake.

thereby hating sin but loving the sinner, which is anyone who does not follow Christ.

No, it's not anyone who doesn't follow Christ. It's ANYONE period. Christians hate the sin and love the sinner when one of their fellow Christians gets out of line with God.
Btw, I don't think most Christians have a problem with believing that people can be good without God. If only Christians were good it would be a totally different world and not in a good way.

 

[aiki]

Good question. A wise person once told me that evil has a purpose. Without evil, there is no good, only complacence. So, if a person recognizes and understands evil, then that person can recognize and understand good and act goodly towards others.

God existed as a good God before evil ever existed in our universe. He no more required the presence of evil to be good than the color green needs some other color in order to be green. I think, therefore, it is incorrect to hold that evil must exist in order for good to exist. Really, evil is, essentially, the absence of good, not its defining opposite. A thing is evil when it is not good.

Selah.

 

[Amber Bird]

God existed as a good God before evil ever existed in our universe. He no more required the presence of evil to be good than the color green needs some other color in order to be green. I think, therefore, it is incorrect to hold that evil must exist in order for good to exist. Really, evil is, essentially, the absence of good, not its defining opposite. A thing is evil when it is not good.

Selah.

Would your observation on that matter support or reject what is contained in God's words as they appear in Isaiah 45:7.

 

[aiki]

Would your observation on that matter support or reject what is contained in God's words as they appear in Isaiah 45:7.

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'

What in this verse contradicts what I wrote? Nothing, that I can see...

Selah.