What explains the creation of psychopaths?

[now faith]

Hi,
A year spent working for, or with a person, is a man year to me. So ten man years is ten years working with a single person. And ten man years is also a year spent working with ten people.
Yes it is in both women and men.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Oh thank you ,I never considered that.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I'm wrestling with understanding the makeup of a psychopath and how it relates to the Christian belief system. From what I understand as far as nature vs nurture, nurture isn't part of the scenario - their brains are wired differently from birth. Perfectly good parents can give birth to a psychopath. They are void of emotion, callous, live to control and dominate others in strange perverse ways, they're easily bored due to not feeling fulfilled/motivated by the things that normal humans find fulfilling such as love, parenthood, friendship ( I don’t think the Psychopath has real friends – acquaintances and accomplices, maybe) pity, altruism, honour, trust, the satisfaction of a job well done, etc etc. - all of those things are viewed as weaknesses to be twisted and exploited to the benefit of the Psychopath. The Psychopath satisfies its motivations by aping normal motivations ( often not very convincingly when seen up close and personal – words and deeds do not match), pretending to be a normal person.

After dealing with one up close and personal... I believe all the horrible things I've read that most people don't want to believe- would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and not face this horrific reality. It truly feels like dealing with a demon possessed person and becomes more disturbing when you realize they're not only doing these things to as a means to an end but actually enjoy hurting you as well.

I wish I could listen to the audible voice of God and hear His explanation as to what happens in the spiritual realm to create this is the first place. The makeup of the psychopath is by definition the nature of the anti Christ, everything against God. These creatures are wired in such a way that they would never have the desire to even consider accepting Christ... I've struggle with that reality as well. They don't comprehend or hold value to love and they see themselves more as gods. As of present there is no treatment available to help this disorder, and even if there was, a psychopath wouldn't agree to the fact that they have a problem that needs to be fixed.

This is the root question I struggle with repeatedly: why would God allow the creation of Psychopaths- the very makeup of them does not allow them to have a desire to accept Christ- they don't see that they need fixing or have an issue and have no remorse. Why does God allow this and what explains how they are created. Is it because of generational curses or something?

To ask "why does God allow this" borders on blaming God. It's caused by sin and it's not God's fault. God allowed mankind to live as sinners and it's corruption in our genes. If God were to stop the psychopath from being born a psychopath, he would have had to stop Adam and Eve from having children and none of us would be here. God will eventually remove all sin and sinners out of the human race and separate all sin and sinners away from Himself and His people in Hell where only the smoke of their torments will rise forever, and they will not have an excuse to offer God and they will not be able to blame God for allowing them to be born....well, they can blame God, but it won't get them out of Hell. As long as they are in the world with us, we can pray for them and hope for the miracle of salvation to be known by them and they can be changed by God from sinners into saints.

 

[Brandon_D]

It is clear to me that both psychopaths and sociopaths (a slight variation in motive and purpose) are agents used of Satan for wicked works. God does not yet eradicate sin, but deals with sinners for salvation, and knows full well which sinners will do evil and/or wickedness. In time all self-indulgent sinners as well as wicked ones possessed of Satan, will be judged. Sin is rampant in the world, and this is not a paradise yet, though will be in the Millennium time. One should not be judging or trying to second-guess God.

That makes sense but how am I supposed to be able to love someone that is pure evil? Love your neigbor as yourself should apply but I'm struggling with someone that has no remorse about anything and enjoys hurting me.

 

[Brandon_D]

Where did you hear that psychopaths are sub-human? They are human but seriously flawed. They too can be redeemed by the grace of God. You could have applied this description to the apostle Paul before he was saved "They are void of emotion, callous, live to control and dominate others in strange perverse ways,...", since he went about persecuting Christians and having them killed.

Good example but try living with one and see how easy this is. I need help. I don't want to hate this person. How do I love an evil person?

 

[1watchman]

It is clear to me that both psychopaths and sociopaths (a slight variation in motive and purpose) are agents used of Satan for wicked works. God does not yet eradicate sin, but deals with sinners for salvation, and knows full well which sinners will do evil and/or wickedness. In time all self-indulgent sinners as well as wicked ones possessed of Satan, will be judged. Sin is rampant in the world, and this is not a paradise yet, though will be in the Millennium time. One should not be judging or trying to second-guess God.

In further comment on what I posted earlier, one needs to see the fundamentals of God who always knows the end from the beginning, and He knows who are grossly rebellious toward Him and will not surrender to God (that applies to all mankind); and He knows who will become an agent of Satan and who will do heinous things. God, as knowing all things, predestinates and elects the saints. He is not about to change the conditions He established, giving mankind a free will to choose God or not.

God may allow one to be a victim too, if that one is not going to be saved; and perhaps even a true saint --I do suppose, might be a victim if that one needs to quit their time on earth as having fulfilled their purpose here; making their death a testimony to family and friends. We must not ever criticize God and suppose we know more than He does. After the Bride --the Church of God, is translated up out of this world, all mankind remaining will be under severe judgment as the "tribulation" time unfolds. We learn this picture from reading "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as God shows.

Brandon raised the question about knowing who to love and who not to love; but God requires saints of God to show love for all souls as an "ambassador of Christ" for salvation, but that does not mean we should ignore their evil and walk along with them showing it is all right.

 

[Norbert L]

I'm wrestling with understanding the makeup of a psychopath and how it relates to the Christian belief system. From what I understand as far as nature vs nurture, nurture isn't part of the scenario - their brains are wired differently from birth. Perfectly good parents can give birth to a psychopath. They are void of emotion, callous, live to control and dominate others in strange perverse ways, they're easily bored due to not feeling fulfilled/motivated by the things that normal humans find fulfilling such as love, parenthood, friendship ( I don’t think the Psychopath has real friends – acquaintances and accomplices, maybe) pity, altruism, honour, trust, the satisfaction of a job well done, etc etc. - all of those things are viewed as weaknesses to be twisted and exploited to the benefit of the Psychopath. The Psychopath satisfies its motivations by aping normal motivations ( often not very convincingly when seen up close and personal – words and deeds do not match), pretending to be a normal person.

After dealing with one up close and personal... I believe all the horrible things I've read that most people don't want to believe- would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and not face this horrific reality. It truly feels like dealing with a demon possessed person and becomes more disturbing when you realize they're not only doing these things to as a means to an end but actually enjoy hurting you as well.

I wish I could listen to the audible voice of God and hear His explanation as to what happens in the spiritual realm to create this is the first place. The makeup of the psychopath is by definition the nature of the anti Christ, everything against God. These creatures are wired in such a way that they would never have the desire to even consider accepting Christ... I've struggle with that reality as well. They don't comprehend or hold value to love and they see themselves more as gods. As of present there is no treatment available to help this disorder, and even if there was, a psychopath wouldn't agree to the fact that they have a problem that needs to be fixed.

This is the root question I struggle with repeatedly: why would God allow the creation of Psychopaths- the very makeup of them does not allow them to have a desire to accept Christ- they don't see that they need fixing or have an issue and have no remorse. Why does God allow this and what explains how they are created. Is it because of generational curses or something?

You could listen to the testimonial given by a Christian Apologist who had many symptoms of a psychopath.

 

[1watchman]

you mean like someone is more evil than the rest? Isn't evil evil? and we were all once evil we are only counted as Good because of Jesus Christ. So do you think of your self as human?

God makes a distinction in Scripture between "evil" and "wickedness" and we should also. Evil is everything contrary to God, and wickedness is extreme evil and most associated with Satanic acts (note Eccl. 8:11-13; etc.)

 

[corinth77777]

When the damage is done...it's ✔ done.
We create the environment we live in when we refused to love. A lack of connection to people ....creates them. If someone has a sincere connection as a child....then He can relate to the feelings of the other person. But when they don't they do not have empathy.
Then what people practice they become.

 

[SakraNomoko]

I think it is a tad disingenuous to categorize everyone with ASPD (anti-social personality disorder, which is what psychopaths and sociopaths are categorized now as) as evil. Really, the only ones that get noticeable public attention are the career criminals, which is a lifestyle that will put you into mentally bad places, psychopath or not.

In studies of identical twins, there is some evidence to suggest there is some biological link to ASPD, but with how plastic the brain is in the early years, how much the biology impacts the person is likely dependent on their environment.

CEOs are more likely to be psychopaths, which is to say certain traits of psychopathy can lend themselves to making hard-working and well-off people. Many women are attracted to prosperous men (which has been the case for many, many years), so the biological part gets passed along to offspring.

It less of a question of "Did God create that?" and more of as a result of people making choices that result in consequences in accordance with the biological laws God put in place. Just because God put the law there doesn't mean He's directly responsible for any particular person's genetic makeup (or disease, for that matter, unless miraculously done as in the case of Moses' hand).

If you visit any forums for ASPD, you will find that, while many are atheists, there are often religious people there, albeit very few Christians, even among the religious. So, yes, they are less likely to accept the Christian message, but that doesn't mean they inherently won't.

As for salvation, it depends on your religious background. If it is salvation by faith alone or even by faith accompanied by works, the feelings of love and empathy are not required. Now, a lack of love towards God or your neighbor would be a continuous violation of the greatest and second greatest commandments. Whether that constitutes unforgivable sin or not depends on your religious tradition. If it does, then we are all in a very bad situation, to say the least.

 

[royal priest]

Some relevant Bible to consider:
Psalms 139:13; Acts of the Apostles 17:26-28

 

[corinth77777]

Some relevant Bible to consider:
Psalms 139:13; Acts of the Apostles 17:26-28

And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

 

[corinth77777]

And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

 

[AsperNinja]

I remember wanting to kill people when I was a teenager. I might have become a psychopath if Jesus had not saved me. God can have mercy on whoever He wants. All sin is evil.

 

[Sam91]

Ephesians 2:1-10 Romans 8 Ezekiel 37

I trust that God can save people who are psychopaths because:
We were all dead in our transgressions.
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God.
We are not saved by works less no man can boast.
God is Sovereign.
God is all powerful.
God is our Healer.
Nothing is impossible to God. I referenced Ezekiel because the Lord asked him whether it was possible for Him to make the dry bones live. Ezekiel was wise enough ro know that he couldn't answer but knew God could. The prophecy is a message of hope to Israel but such of one to us too.

 

[Shadowkat]

Hello,
my name is Shadowkat, and I am a Sociopath.
I may be a psychopath, but it's had to differentiate the two. Besides, Doctors don't like telling crazy people that they're a psychopath. I suppose I should ask ,but I'm not sure I want to know.
Anyway, I'm a Christian; I truly believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. I also struggle every day in my dealings with other people. Sometimes I pray while I'm talking to someone that I won't say something hurtful. I don't know what I was when I was born, but I can say the my childhood was a hellish nightmare, and that surely contributed to my condition.
Much of what I have read in this thread sounds familiar. I don't feel anything much of the time. It is so very difficult for me to decifer another person's feelings. I have been a soldier and I can kill without remorse, but I am constrained by the reality of the Gospel and the good that it brings into my life. I believe that I have felt the Spirit of the Lord, and am overcome by His presence because such feeling is so foreign. I have struggled with anger and even hatred but disgarded it as being useless to resolve or repair anything. I try not to hurt people but I know I do. I say I'm sorry when I can, and I ask God to forgive me. I cannot say for sure that I feel remorse, but I know that I don't want God to be mad at me and take away His beautiful Spirit. In my struggle to be normal and my desperation to feel and to connect I have done terrible things and I confessed my sin before God and man.
So, am I not able to really be a Christian? Am I deluded about the Lord's presence. Can I truly be forgiven or should I go away and leave you guys alone?

 

[98cwitr]

I'd recommend the Book: The Sociopath Next Door. A clinical look into sociopathy, its causes, and what we know about it (and what we don't). Excellent read. I'm not a book nerd and read this thing in 3 days.

 

[98cwitr]

I am a Sociopath.

Qualify this for me. How do you know that? What drives you (ie: gives you motivation?)

BTW, I'm not convinced you're lost forever and there's no hope for redemption. All things are possible with God! I would like to understand your position though, before commenting further.

 

[Shadowkat]

The Lord has done a great thing for me.
I had been praying and crying out to Him for several weeks because I had become aware of my condition, my sociopathy. In assessing my life, the Lord made me realize how terrible I had been. I looked inside my heart and saw how much I really didn't feel and didn't care. I thought that He had left me or that I was mistaken about everything and He had never been with me at all. I wept for my sin and the disrespect I had shown toward the Lord while I was trying to fix myself. I begged Him to forgive me for my hurtful words, but I could not find any consolation.
This evening I sat down to read my Bible, but I just sat there unable to stop the tears running down my face. After a long time I opened the Bible intending to start from the beginning in Genesis, but the Lord told me in the way that He does to read Samuel. I went to Samuel and read about how the Lord called to Samuel, and how Samuel said, "Speak, for your servant is listening." I didn't know what this had to do with me, so I kept reading. I read about the man of God who came and declared God's wrath against Eli and all his family because of the sins of Eli's sons and because Eli knew about it and did nothing. I asked the Lord, "Is this me? Is this how I am to be treated?", and the Lord said, "No!" It was forceful. I asked the Lord how was this so; surely my sin and selfishness and mistreatment of people was like Eli and his sons. Again He said, "No". Immediately after He said it the second time, He took away all my anxiety, but it was not like when you have a realization about something and it makes you feel better. I had been so upset that my chest was hurting. This was like flipping a switch: instantly just gone. For many years I have been able to shut down my emotions, sometimes on purpose and sometimes it just happens, but when it happens, I can still sense the emotions like they're really far away; like standing on a cliff watching a river flow by far below. This was different. The anxiety, the tears, were gone, taken away. I know the Lord toke them away. Then I danced because the Lord Spoke to me and because He was with me.
I am not alone.
Holy is the Lord. How great is He and worthy of praise because He doesn't treat us in accordance with our sins. Praise the Lord!

 

[GoatsandRoses]

This is very long as I think you’re struggling as I have.. As a disclaimer, I’m a very traditional, rather conservative Baptist by denomination. I have strong respect for the Bible. Yet few subjects trouble me more than the effect of brain damage/brain differences on salvation and Christian living. Certainly I think this subject is often just brushed aside without understanding the reality of brain differences.

We have an adopted daughter, now 16, and have heard many stories from within the adoption community of children who were so disabled/disturbed (due to prenatal brain damage in the front of the brain, not just abuse) that they seemed almost demonic. Some literally almost lived to "steal, kill, and destroy." (I mean no disrespect to scripture in using this verse.) Some of these children do not seem to have a conscience, and yes, some almost seemed demon-possessed from an early age, killing or attempting to kill animals and family members as soon as they were physically able to do so.

If I were a confirmed Calvinist (I'm struggling with that, too), I'd simply say that some people are predestined for salvation and others are not. A Calvinist would probably say that, in the case of a psychopath, God clearly created a "vessel of His wrath, prepared for destruction," Romans 9:21. Easy answer, but who in his right mind would tell a grieving parent that their recently-institutionalized 3-year-old is damned to Hell?

I'm not a confirmed Calvinist (yet), however. The Free Will view would suggest that at some point 1) God gives every rational person the CHANCE to either accept or deny Christ on some level OR 2) that person, EVEN IF VIOLENT, is too intellectually/emotionally/spiritually damaged to make a rational choice and he remains under the much-debated grace of the “age of accountability.” In other words, that person remains in the spiritual condition of an immature child, always under Christ’s grace. It can be hard to consider that a brain-damaged 40-year-old serial killer could still be under the grace of Christ because the killer lacks the mature ability to understand his choices, but perhaps it’s possible.

DO at least some adult psychopaths really have the ability (you can call it prevenient grace) to even HAVE the choice to accept Christ? Here’s where things get really sticky: brain development definitely helps or hinders our ability to understand parts of the Gospel and live the Christian life. As people with “normal” brains, it can be hard for us to comprehend that not everyone understands the world in the same way that we do.

God had to give me a daughter who is ADHD, has an IQ between 71-76, and other ill-defined issues to smack my type-A-self-righteous-self into reality. I had always judged her actions by my own abilities, and I was forced to confront the fact that pre-natal brain damage really affects a person at a very deep level. In short, if a person has anything near to a “normally developed” brain, he or she needs to thank God every night, because it’s a gift not given to everyone. Even my daughter’s relatively mild issues made her

*unable to understand danger

*unable to always relate cause and effect (In Christianity, you HAVE to be able to understand that there are consequences for accepting or rejecting Christ. Some developmentally delayed people cannot understand even the idea that bad = punishment, so they repeat the same actions over and over. Sometimes it just takes them a LONG time to learn the consequences.)

*unable to generalize abstract rules to specific situations (Developmentally delayed kids/adults might be able to “say” the 10 Commandments, but they might still take something from a local store OR they might understand that taking something from Store A is wrong, but to them Store B is different. They may be confused as to why they can take a piece of paper, a pen, or a snack from home, but not take the money from Mom’s purse or Dad’s wallet. These things, that seem so “easy” and intuitive to most of us, baffle them.)

*unable to project consequences (Sometimes kids with ADHD and other issues move too quickly to think about consequences. In other cases, they simply can’t envision the consequences because they’ve never had those consequences happen before.)

*lack of an internal clock (People without an internal clock may have the tendency to always be late, but even worse, they may tend to live “for the moment” with little thought for tomorrow.)

*lack of self-control (People with certain types of ADHD seem to have a nuclear reactor inside. Their energy level is through the ROOF. This is something that they often simply cannot control. They get desperately bored easily, and when let loose, they explode like a racehorse out of the box. Although not all ADHD people have these issues, it can be hard for some of them to say no to pleasures such as sex or to violence, because it can be hard for them to feel that “tomorrow” is real.)

Thankfully, our daughter has finally developed past some of these levels...but she is still about 3-5 years “behind” other children in some ways. In some cases, it took scary real-life events for her to comprehend (and it really WAS a epiphany moment) the rules that we'd tried so hard to teach her verbally. She actually came to understanding; some people NEVER develop an adult level of thinking. Is it surprising that many people in prison have developmental issues or borderline IQ? In fact, a man’s tendency toward violence in prison can be correlated with his IQ. On the other hand, high IQ students tend to remain virgins longer. (By contrast, however, some psychopaths are VERY intelligent, and also may be violent, so a high IQ is no guarantee of saintliness.)

Of course, with true psychopaths, the main driving force isn't the inability to comprehend abstractions, but the lack of natural conscience and the elevation of the Self to godhood. The psychopath does not see others as discrete individuals worthy of respect or even worthy of life. He or she feels no guilt when he or she "uses" another person. Instead, other people are simply tools to be used for promotion or entertainment.

Could responding to God's call (if we admit that a true psychopath could even hear God's call) and studying the Scriptures help “heal” a psychopath? Could the brain at least partially rewire itself? Science and experience suggest that it might be possible. We can't leave out that critical,
ineffable work of the Holy Spirit either. It is He who opens our eyes to the truth and makes the teachings of the Bible seem "real." Is the Holy Spirit bound to work in a certain portion of the brain, or can He rewire the brain?

In closing, I'm afraid that I've opened more questions than answers, and what I might say now may frighten you or encourage you. Many of us can “switch” back and forth from cold logic to loving emotion; I see it even on here where logical theological debates became heartlessly vicious. Even as a woman, I can shift to the coldly logical side, and I have to be VERY careful about it, because my thoughts can get pretty dark if I allow myself to go down certain paths. Sometimes I have to stop myself and mentally “shift” back to that place of balance between logic and emotion (I DO have a conscience!) I have often asked myself what my life would have been like if I'd let that "other" side of my personality hold sway. My husband and I both have superior IQs (and, by the way, a certain amount of birth-trauma) and both of us say that but for the Grace of God we might have gone down very different paths. I went to school with many high-IQ teens who espoused atheism, anarchy, violence, the occult, and eugenics (basically advocating that those they considered “inferior” should be euthanized). Yet from an early age I felt that God was calling me to follow Him; I really didn’t have a choice. (Maybe I’m a closet-Calvinist after all.) The darkness of the human heart unless lightened by the Grace of God, is terrifying and unfathomable. What many of us would have done or become if we had NOT heard or responded to His call, we can never know.

As it is, we rescue dogs, spoil our daughter, and raise mini goats.