What does "yom" really mean?

[Fascinated With God]

In Deuteronomy 5:29, 11:1, 14:23 and many more places in that book, as well as in Jeremiah 31:36, 32:39, 33:18 & 35:19 & 1 Samuel 2:32-35, yom explicitly means "always".

In Deuteronomy the actual words are "mitzvah yom". Mitzvah is such a common word that the spell checker accepts it. I've heard the word hundreds of times, even though my Hebrew is scant. Most of the 30+ translations on bible.cc translate mitzvah as keeping the commandments, but that is actually a shallow interpretation. Mitzvahs are much more than that, it is any spiritual act, like baptism. I once heard a rabbi call John the Baptist, John the Mitzvah guy. But the most significant form of mitzvah in the minds of Jews today is charity, especially anonymous charity.

So in Deuteronomy God is using the word "yom" to say to do these things forever.



Here are all the verses listed out with yom in red and each underlined verse is a link to BlueLetterBible.org showing English and Hebrew side by side for each word in the verse.

Deu 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Deu 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deu 14:23
And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

Jeremiah 31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Jeremiah 33:18
Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

Jeremiah 35:19
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever.

1 Samuel 2:32
And thou shalt see an enemy in my habitation, in all the wealth which God shall give Israel: and there shall not be an old man in thine house for ever.

1 Samuel 2:35
And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.

 

[vossler]

I don't know if you're genuinely looking for an answer or just trying to solicit an argument. If it is the former please excuse my cynical statement. I'm not sure where your research has given you the definition of "always" but a simple search will reveal that the term essentially means a period of time. It could be a day as in daylight (12 hours), a 24 hour period (day), or sometimes even a longer period like a year. It's definition is specifically tied to the context.

 

[Fascinated With God]

My research? I looked up all the verses on bible.cc which gives 30+ translations.

They all agree except the YLT and Darby, but even Darby caves in sometimes and agrees with the rest.

 

[vossler]

My research? I looked up all the verses on bible.cc which gives 30+ translations.

They all agree except the YLT and Darby, but even Darby caves in sometimes and agrees with the rest.

I looked up your first example (Deuteronomy 5:30) and in almost every translation it means "Go and tell them, return to your tents". There was no reference to "always" or "forever". I didn't check the remainder of your examples but if the first one doesn't support your thesis then its already on shaky ground.

 

[Assyrian]

Is it Deuteronomy 5:29?

 

[Fascinated With God]

Yes, it is verse 29, not 30. I got confused while using the panels on BlueLetterBible.org. Here is verse 5:29 with yom in red followed by Strong's lexicon number as a link that goes to the definition of yom.

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always H3117, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
​

 

[Fascinated With God]

Here are all the verses listed out with yom in red and each underlined verse is a link to BlueLetterBible.org showing English and Hebrew side by side for each word in the verse.

Deu 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Deu 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deu 14:23
And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

Jeremiah 31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 32:39
And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Jeremiah 33:18
Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

Jeremiah 35:19
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever.

1 Samuel 2:32
And thou shalt see an enemy in my habitation, in all the wealth which God shall give Israel: and there shall not be an old man in thine house for ever.

1 Samuel 2:35
And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.







.

 

[vossler]

OK, I'm no Hebrew scholar and can't tell you why the word 'yom' is apparently in some instances translated to mean forever or always. Someone who is far more learned that I could probably address that. I'm curious why the question; especially given this is an Origins forum? Clearly, all credible dictionaries and your own H3117 link (when clicked on) show it to mean a period of time.

 

[Fascinated With God]

OK, I'm no Hebrew scholar and can't tell you why the word 'yom' is apparently in some instances translated to mean forever or always.

Hebrew is much more like Chinese than English in that words have much broader meanings that are not so easily defined as English words are. English and western European languages in general are extremely precise. That is why no matter what language people speak, when it comes to science and technology they simply incorporate English words directly into their language because they just don't have anything like such precise words in their language.

Someone who is far more learned that I could probably address that. I'm curious why the question; especially given this is an Origins forum?

Because the argument for Creationism rests entirely on choosing a very obstinate definition for an English translation of a word you really have no concept of.

Clearly, all credible dictionaries and your own H3117 link (when clicked on) show it to mean a period of time.

Forever is also a period of time. Is the infinite distance somehow not a distance?

 

[Fascinated With God]

If no one has anything to add I'm going to post these verses on the General Theology board as "The flaws of both Creationism and pro-science anti-Creationism". I will append it with a recognition of the profoundly atheistic bias of the 18th century scientists that lingers to this day and how a majority of practicing Biologists are still atheists to this day, unlike any other field in science.

And just to note I have been accused on GT of being anti-academic by a seminary student (I think a Lutheran youth pastor who is an extremely conservative member of the LCMS denomination) and two Eastern Orthodox posters who are were very pro-science. I'll post a link if you are really interested.







.

 

[Lulav]

Deu 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

כָּל-הַיָּמִים means 'all the days', speaking of the children of Israel.

מִי-יִתֵּן וְהָיָה לְבָבָם זֶה לָהֶם, לְיִרְאָה אֹתִי וְלִשְׁמֹר אֶת-כָּל-מִצְו תַי--כָּל-

הַיָּמִים: לְמַעַן יִיטַב לָהֶם וְלִבְנֵיהֶם, לְעֹלָם

 

[Fascinated With God]

כָּל-הַיָּמִים means 'all the days', speaking of the children of Israel.

What translation are you using? You act as though this refers to a single generation, which is false. Here are twenty common translations, none of which use your wording, and all but one of which says, "forever":

New International Version
Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!

New Living Translation
Oh, that they would always have hearts like this, that they might fear me and obey all my commands! If they did, they and their descendants would prosper forever.

English Standard Version
Oh that they had such a mind as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their descendants forever!

New American Standard Bible
'Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!

King James Bible
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If only they had such a heart to fear Me and keep all My commands always, so that they and their children will prosper forever.

International Standard Version
If only they would commit to fear me and keep all my commands, then it will go well with them and their children forever.

NET Bible
If only it would really be their desire to fear me and obey all my commandments in the future, so that it may go well with them and their descendants forever.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
If only they would fear me and obey all my commandments as long as they live! Then things would go well for them and their children forever.

Jubilee Bible 2000
O that there were such a heart in them that they would fear me and keep all my commandments always that it might be well with them and with their children for ever!

King James 2000 Bible
O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!

American King James Version
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

American Standard Version
Oh that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who shall give them to have such a mind, to fear me, and to keep all my commandments at all times, that it may be well with them and with their children for ever?

Darby Bible Translation
Oh that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments continually, that it might be well with them and with their sons for ever!

English Revised Version
Oh that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Webster's Bible Translation
O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

World English Bible
Oh that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!

Young's Literal Translation
O that their heart had been thus to them, to fear Me, and to keep My commands all the days, that it may be well with them, and with their sons -- to the age!

 

[Lulav]

I'm sorry, you couldn't tell, it is from the original, the Hebrew.

 

[Fascinated With God]

All of the translations I quoted are from the original Hebrew as well. <edit>

What does your translation even mean, "all the days" of what?

 

[Lulav]

All of the translations I quoted are from the original Hebrew as well. Where else do you think they came from? What makes you think your personal translation is superior to all of the translations of the Bible that most Christians use?

What does your translation even mean, "all the days" of what?

Yes, I'm sure they are, but as you can see they don't all say the same thing.

<edit>
I did explain what it meant, here it is again,

all the days, meaning the children of Israel

IOW All the days of the children of Israel in this life.

 

[Fascinated With God]

You did not clarify anything.

All the days of Jews in this life, so you assume that Jews will disappear in the future?

Or is it that you assume the universe will be destroyed in the future?

How does the days of the life of Jews come to an end as you clearly propose?

 

[Fascinated With God]

<edit>

To Jews the notion that they are so great but will vanish in the future is taken in the same light that Christians take Muslims who think they are praising Jesus, but can't understand why Christians are incensed that Muslims deny that Jesus is God. They think that all their praise of Jesus should have a positive effect and are completely astonished that Christians are not the least impressed when this is paired with denial of Jesus' divinity.

 

[Fascinated With God]

So yom can mean a day, a year, or a lifetime, but you deny the next step that it can mean forever? Your interpretation does not apply at all to the other verses I listed. What about the verses in Jeremiah where yom is interpreted as "Me forever", speaking of God. Is that also not really forever?

 

[Fascinated With God]

And while we are at it, since you are Messianic, and I know that Messianics think they know so much about Judaism; did you know that Orthodox and Hasidic Jews firmly believe in reincarnation? They point to Job where it says a person has to go to hell 2 or 3 time before they get it, which to them dictates a situation that could not be encompassed by a single lifetime.

(I don't agree, but I do feel that I lack a decisive counter argument, so I respect their right to disagree with me.)

 

[Lulav]

You did not clarify anything.

All the days of Jews in this life, so you assume that Jews will disappear in the future?

Or is it that you assume the universe will be destroyed in the future?

How does the days of the life of Jews come to an end as you clearly propose?

I did, I am sorry you are not understanding. When G-d speaks to Israel and speaks of B'nei Israel he is speaking to all the children of Israel, of Jacob, from that time forward.

Your last translation here is slightly correct.

Young's Literal Translation
O that their heart had been thus to them, to fear Me, and to keep My commands all the days, that it may be well with them, and with their sons -- to the age!

What he is saying is that he wishes their heart would fear (respect Him) and keep his commandments all the day of the olam hazeh (this is a Jewish expression which means the time we are living now different from the world to come which is the haba olam), 'with their sons' means B'nei Israel, the children of Israel.