What does "the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force", mean?

[Neogaia777]

What does "the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force", mean?

Comments?

God Bless!

 

[1watchman]

Don't let the Word: "violence" confuse you. It speaks of those who are resolute & determined. It says in general that the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence (as with John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus, and with disciples; so the same spirit ---determined and resolute must press into the Kingdom.

 

[dcalling]

My Pastor has talked this before in a class, and there are multiple translations on this because no one knows the exact meaning. He even use the original Greek.

What he said (and I believe it makes sense) is not to read the Bible by those hard to understand verses, where (this is from me) God is trying to hide some prophecies, instead use the verses that are clear (i.e. Love God and Love your neighbor as yourself, pray for your enemies).

 

[seashale76]

“The Lord says that “The Kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.’ In the writings of the Apostle Paul we find that the matter of salvation does not depend upon us at all and that before our birth, God has determined for us one fate or another. What is the relationship between Divine provision and our free will? Answer: The fact that the Kingdom of God is ‘taken by force’ presupposes personal effort. When the Apostle Paul says, ‘it is not of him that wills,’ this means one’s efforts to produce what is sought. It is necessary to combine them: to strive and to expect all things from grace. It is not one’s own efforts that will lead to the goal, because without grace, efforts produce little; nor does grace without effort bring what is sought, because grace acts in us and for us through our efforts. Both combine in a person to bring progress and carry him to the goal. (God’s) foreknowledge is unfathomable. It is enough for us with our whole heart to believe that it never opposes God’s grace and truth and that it does not infringe man’s freedom. Usually this resolves as follows: God foresees how a man will freely act and makes dispositions accordingly; Divine determination depends on the life of a man, and not his life upon the determination.”

~St. Theophan the Recluse. An Explanation of Certain Texts of Holy Scriptures. B#18No.67.

Commentary from the Orthodox Study Bible:
"11:12 Suffers violence may mean that the Kingdom is under attack by opponents of John the Baptist and Jesus, or the other violent men—messianic pretenders trying to bring in the Kingdom by using military force against the Romans. An ancient patristic interpretation is that the Kingdom itself breaks into this world “violently” (10:34). For instance, through powerful miracles, alert and daring people take hold of it aggressively. Whoever is a hearer and lover of the Word of God takes the Kingdom “by force,” exerting all earnestness and desire to enter the reality of the Kingdom. For this martyrs shed their blood, making their confession of faith, being “made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men,” (1 Cor. 4:9). The Kindgom of Heaven belongs not to the sleeping or lazy. Rather the violent take it by force."


In other words, our actions cannot be passive. We can’t float through the faith easily just going through the motions. We must be deliberate in our prayers, our fasting, our mindfulness, et cetera. It is the opposite of taking the easy road.

 

[NonTheologian]

In the writings of the Apostle Paul we find that the matter of salvation does not depend upon us at all and that before our birth, God has determined for us one fate or another.

I realize that you are quoting St. Theophan here, but I don't believe that he is correct in this statement, if this is in fact what he wrote. As far as I know, this is contrary to strict Orthodox dogma on the role of free will. In his Thoughts for Each Day of the Year he writes something completely different:

The Kingdom suffereth violence - that is, it is attained by violence, with labor, force, and difficult spiritual struggles. Therefore, only those who lead a labor-filled ascetic life attain it. Thus, every sort of comfort is renounced along the path to the Kingdom. Pleasures of all types distance us from the Kingdom. But these days we have concern only for pleasures - sometimes emotional, but more often fleshly: to eat, drink, have fun, make merry, luxuriate in everything. We have said to the Kingdom, "I beg you to excuse me," although there is a feast in the Kingdom - a royal feast - one so sumptuous that we could not even conceive of it, because we do not have the taste for it. What is considered sweet there is bitter to us, what is pleasant there is repulsive to us, what gladdens one there is a burden for us. We have gone totally separate ways. And the Kingdom, together with the violent who take it by force, withdraws from us. We are glad about this, and are even ready to drive them away more quickly. Indeed, we have already started talking about it, but the evil one has not yet managed to arrange it.​

Also, when I googled the text you cited, I found the following instead:

Why does the Lord say that from the time of John the Baptist, the Kingdom of God will be taken by force? Was it not taken by force before John?

Answer: "To take by force" is not an exact translation, for in the divine order of salvation, nothing can be forcibly taken. The Slavonic translation is more precise: "to compel onself," to take something by effort. This is also what the Greek word signifies. The thought here is that one forces one's way into the Kingdom as one might squeeze through a dense crowd. This is so in practice: forcing oneself and stuggle are essential in those seeking salvation and the Kingdom of God. Only those who are like this reach the Kingdom. It is not just given to everyone, as a privilege. As to why from the days of John this is so ... one need not search further but must admit one's inability to explain this.​

May I ask where you found the text you cited?

 

[Bobinator]

What does "the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force", mean?

Comments?

God Bless!

First of all, Jesus is referring to a specific period between John the Baptist and Jesus. Jesus said all the prophets prophesied about John. But now, there is violence in the Kingdom.

I believe if means this- John preached repentance. He was the greatest of the prophets, because he drew people closer to God more than any other prophet. He is the manifestation of the spirit of Elijah. What did Elijah do? He challenged all the prophets of Baal to a show down and told Israel to choose between God and Baal. When he slaughtered Baal’s prophets, he started a revival.

John the Baptist and Jesus overturned the religious establishment that had been ruling over the people for over 400 years. The battle is over men’s souls. They not only challenged the legitimacy of the religious establishment and control over people, but they led a violent battle in men’s minds and spiritual walk to deny the flesh and follow after the Spirit.

We are at constant war with the flesh, as Paul the Apostle speaks of in the Book of Romans and Corinthians, and other places in the New Testament. There is no compromise and negotiating with the enemy, in this case. Here are a few scriptures to ponder-

Romans 7:23 “But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”

Galatians 5: [17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Ephesians 6: [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

This is why in Ephesians 6:11, Paul says, “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” There is only one reason to put on armour, and that is for defense when engaged in a violent a battle.

The Spirit is constantly at war with the flesh, and victory is taken by force.

 

[singpeace]

What does "the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force", mean?

Comments?

God Bless!

Matthew 11:12
. . . the Kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.


The original Greek text for the phrase 'suffereth violence' is biázō which means to lay hold of something with positive aggressiveness. Biázō is only used twice in the NT (both times positively).

The original Greek text for 'the violent' is biastés which means one who is eager in pursuit.

The original Greek text for 'by force' is harpazó which means seize or snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing a bounty (a prize); to take openly (i.e. not covertly or secretly).

Therefore, the proper understanding of this verse is this.
Matthew 11:12
. . . the Kingdom of Heaven (rule of God in men's hearts) is laid hold of with positive aggressiveness, and those that are eager to pursue it snatch it up like seizing a prize.

The religious leaders of that day would not receive John the Baptist's message nor would they receive baptism. But the publicans or sinners and those that were lost did receive his message and eagerly accepted baptism and openly followed Jesus.

Hope this helps.