What Does The Anti-Christ Come to do?

[daq]

LOL...I'm trying to tell you what it truly says. Neither verse refers to a future advent. Do you have any Greek study tools? If not, I can provide a host of them for you. All free of charge, of course.

Those who have ears to hear.

And you are correct, I am not a novice. Also, I'll let the Kabbalist comment slide for now, since it is way off topic, but I would not lump them in with Gnostics at any stretch of the imagination. The early Jewish Kabbalists are among the greatest Torah scholars this world has ever known, and will know IMHO.

Yea, the certain comment you would avoid I agree with but the point was that those terms are now used, (with modern redefinitions) simply to label and ostracize a perceived "opponent" as opposed to having any truth to them. Moving forward then if the passage in question truly is in the past tense, and it is because the foundational teaching is Golgotha where Yeshua gave his body, blood, and poured out his soul unto death on the stake in the physical world, then what of the following statement which Paul puts forth to the Corinthians?

2 Corinthians 5:14-17 ASV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15. and he died for all, that they that live should no longer live unto themselves, but unto him who for their sakes died and rose again.
16. Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more.
17. Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new.

"Wherefore henceforth [apo-tou-nun, 'from the present', 'from right now forward'] we know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Messiah after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more."

Why is this understanding never taught anywhere in the modern pulpits? If this be true, and it is, then perhaps the following is so much more important to doctrine than what most appear to realize:

1 John 4:1 ASV
1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove [test] the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Matthew 24:5
5. For many shall [have] come in my name, saying, "I am of the Messiah!" and many shall be deceived.

 

[yedida]

I've just re-read this thread and I've noticed that no one has touched on the question I asked earlier.
It's not so much that I believe that the "mark" is physical. or not physical fpr that matter, but the question holds. If the mark is not physical, how does the ability or inability to buy or sell come into play due to the mark or lack thereof? In the scripture, they are related, so how can that be if the mark is not physical in some way?
Thanks for any replies.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

I've just re-read this thread and I've noticed that no one has touched on the question I asked earlier.
It's not so much that I believe that the "mark" is physical. or not physical fpr that matter, but the question holds. If the mark is not physical, how does the ability or inability to buy or sell come into play due to the mark or lack thereof? In the scripture, they are related, so how can that be if the mark is not physical in some way?
Thanks for any replies.

I'll discuss this with you, if you don't mind? Can we start with our own opinions on what the mark is? I do not currently believe it is physical at all.

 

[yedida]

I'll discuss this with you, if you don't mind? Can we start with our own opinions on what the mark is? I do not currently believe it is physical at all.

I currently don't really have an opinion either way. I just have the problem my question raises if the mark isn't somehow physical. The question is valid, and must have an answer if the mark isn't physical.

 

[Hoshiyya]

LOL...I'm trying to tell you what it truly says. Neither verse refers to a future advent. Do you have any Greek study tools? If not, I can provide a host of them for you. All free of charge, of course.

I do, I was making an epistemological point more than a translatory point.
Thanks for the offer though.

 

[dfw69]

There are many antichrist Hannibal...which one are you referring too?

The false messiah to come who will reestablished the law and build the temple

The false phophets in the last days who will say behold he is there in the secret chamber

The spirit of antichrist that deny the new testament love for one anoth


The final antichrist???

 

[HannibalFlavius]

 

[dfw69]

I assume you were referring to the final antichrist....the man of sin....the hidden man within as some teach...

You may be spiritualizing the literal meaning and dismiss him altogether....if your doctrine were to continue and all the world believed as you do......the final antichrist would catch that final generation unaware

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I assume you were referring to the final antichrist....the man of sin....the hidden man within as some teach...

You may be spiritualizing the literal meaning and dismiss him altogether....if your doctrine were to continue and all the world believed as you do......the final antichrist would catch that final generation unaware

Yeah, the lawless man of iniquity and transgression who opposes and stands against all that is called of God or that is worshiped.

The lawless Messiah who does away with the law.

There is no conflict between the New Testament and the Old Testament D.

What kind of Messiah is lawless, and what kind of Messiah changes the times and the seasons so that his people will not know the days of their visitation?

 

[dfw69]

Yeah, the lawless man of iniquity and transgression who opposes and stands against all that is called of God or that is worshiped.

The lawless Messiah who does away with the law.

There is no conflict between the New Testament and the Old Testament D.

What kind of Messiah is lawless, and what kind of Messiah changes the times and the seasons so that his people will not know the days of their visitation?

Actually he will honor the law ....he will say he is the God of the law...he will seek to fulfill the prophecy that yahuwah is with men....he will claim to be the God of Judaism....but the Jews are not fooled....some may be....but most will flew to Petra.....

His 616 laws which are the temple 613 mitzvah plus 3...he adds 3 new laws to the mitzvah...a sign to the Jews

He also builds the Golem in the temple...a image of himself....the image of gold and silver idol.....the metal messiah....the temple is built in the form of a man.....us....you taught me that....but I did some research and learned of the metal person revealed in the temple design


It's similar to the idol of Nebuchadnezzar dream .....which is worldly empires to come past and future...but within the skeleton of the temple there is a picture of a being that is supernatural.....the gold head and body...the eyes of gold...like stars....the arms of silver....the legs and feet of bronze....it's a picture of God .....similar to what John saw when he turn to see alpha and omega....

The final antichrist will build this God of gold and silver and bronze and place it in the temple ....saying this is God. .

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Actually he will honor the law ....he will say he is the God of the law...he will seek to fulfill the prophecy that yahuwah is with men....he will claim to be the God of Judaism....but the Jews are not fooled....some may be....but most will flew to Petra.....

His 616 laws which are the temple 613 mitzvah plus 3...he adds 3 new laws to the mitzvah...a sign to the Jews

He also builds the Golem in the temple...a image of himself....the image of gold and silver idol.....the metal messiah....the temple is built in the form of a man.....us....you taught me that....but I did some research and learned of the metal person revealed in the temple design


It's similar to the idol of Nebuchadnezzar dream .....which is worldly empires to come past and future...but within the skeleton of the temple there is a picture of a being that is supernatural.....the gold head and body...the eyes of gold...like stars....the arms of silver....the legs and feet of bronze....it's a picture of God .....similar to what John saw when he turn to see alpha and omega....

The final antichrist will build this God of gold and silver and bronze and place it in the temple ....saying this is God. .

You are mistaken.

The entire mission of Antiochus Epiphanies was to turn the children of Israel away from their laws, their culture, and their God.

The antichrist comes to change the times and seasons.

The antichrist is called the lawless one because he is lawless.


But we don't wait for the Jews to build a temple, we ARE the temple, and when somebody has stood against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped, he stands against the law and the worship system in it's feasts.


YOU do that.

YOU stand in your temple standing against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, YOU have stood up the abomination of desolation{an image of Zeus} IN YOUR OWN HOUSE.

Let the reader understand, Hear what the spirit says.


You have created your own worship system with your own feasts in your own Temple supposing that you yourself must be God, because you stand against his word, and his system.


You are proud to be lawless but what does Jesus say of the law?

And what does he say concerning those who keep the laws and teach others to keep them?

They will be the greatest in the kingdom.

 

[dfw69]

You are mistaken.

The entire mission of Antiochus Epiphanies was to turn the children of Israel away from their laws, their culture, and their God.

The antichrist comes to change the times and seasons.

The antichrist is called the lawless one because he is lawless.


But we don't wait for the Jews to build a temple, we ARE the temple, and when somebody has stood against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped, he stands against the law and the worship system in it's feasts.


YOU do that.

YOU stand in your temple standing against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, YOU have stood up the abomination of desolation{an image of Zeus} IN YOUR OWN HOUSE.

Let the reader understand, Hear what the spirit says.


You have created your own worship system with your own feasts in your own Temple supposing that you yourself must be God, because you stand against his word, and his system.


You are proud to be lawless but what does Jesus say of the law?

And what does he say concerning those who keep the laws and teach others to keep them?

They will be the greatest in the kingdom.

Smh.....

Off subject....I have a question...does the new temple or ezek temple also shaped as a man?

Does the temple design of Ezekiel in the form of a man as Solomons was?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I currently don't really have an opinion either way. I just have the problem my question raises if the mark isn't somehow physical. The question is valid, and must have an answer if the mark isn't physical.

The mark has never been physical, you receive the mark on your right hand and between your eyes because you keep the Sabbaths, the Passover, and the law is always on your lips.

For this reason Jews put a box between their eyes and wrap a leather upon their arm as that sign, as that seal, between the eyes and on the right arm.


A person is marked for what worship system they follow.

Now the whole world follows the worship system of Babylon, of the Babylonian Messiah in the solstice, and in Ishtar.


The Jews make it a physical mark, but it is not a physical mark.


Those people in Ezekile 9 are sealed in their forehead because they were mourning that the people came up to worship Tammuz, the Babylonian Messiah, and so they are sealed with protection for not involving themselves in the worship system of Babylon.

But the who are then marked for death because of their weeping for the Babylonian Messiah, they are killed at the 6th hour when it becomes the 6th day, in the 6th month, in the 6th year.

The calculating of this name is that you see the date change because you know the day begins at Eve.

God searches Jerusalem by candlelight in the hearts of men will he search, and those who have his seal, they are sealed in Revelation 7 as well, and for what?

Because they keep the Sabbaths, they keep god's worship system, and the law is on their lips.

They are protected.

Judgment begins at the house of the Lord, and those who are marked with the seal of Babylon, they are the ones killed.

But everyone who has the mark of God, they are not killed.

 

[dfw69]

The mark has never been physical, you receive the mark on your right hand and between your eyes because you keep the Sabbaths, the Passover, and the law is always on your lips.

For this reason Jews put a box between their eyes and wrap a leather upon their arm as that sign, as that seal, between the eyes and on the right arm.


A person is marked for what worship system they follow.

Now the whole world follows the worship system of Babylon, of the Babylonian Messiah in the solstice, and in Ishtar.


The Jews make it a physical mark, but it is not a physical mark.


Those people in Ezekile 9 are sealed in their forehead because they were mourning that the people came up to worship Tammuz, the Babylonian Messiah, and so they are sealed with protection for not involving themselves in the worship system of Babylon.

But the who are then marked for death because of their weeping for the Babylonian Messiah, they are killed at the 6th hour when it becomes the 6th day, in the 6th month, in the 6th year.

The calculating of this name is that you see the date change because you know the day begins at Eve.

God searches Jerusalem by candlelight in the hearts of men will he search, and those who have his seal, they are sealed in Revelation 7 as well, and for what?

Because they keep the Sabbaths, they keep god's worship system, and the law is on their lips.

They are protected.

Judgment begins at the house of the Lord, and those who are marked with the seal of Babylon, they are the ones killed.

But everyone who has the mark of God, they are not killed.

Hannibal ...Babylon is not built yet....Babylon is built in the land of shinar....zech 5 reveals wickedness will come from there.....a house is built for wickedness in shinah and established there in her base....

Babylon is to be destroyed by God supernaturally as God overthrown Sodom and Gomorrah....this has never happened

Rev says angels will be seen flying above her witnessing of her coming destruction...and warns gods people to flee the city as lot was warn to flee Sodom

People who spiritualize the scriptures miss the correct literal meaning every time....and you prefer to find fault and condemn the church....Satan is the accuser of the brethren....Hannibal

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Hannibal ...Babylon is not built yet....Babylon is built in the land of shinar....zech 5 reveals wickedness will come from there.....a house is built for wickedness in shinah and established there in her base....

Babylon is to be destroyed by God supernaturally as God overthrown Sodom and Gomorrah....this has never happened

Rev says angels will be seen flying above her witnessing of her coming destruction...and warns gods people to flee the city as lot was warn to flee Sodom

People who spiritualize the scriptures miss the correct literal meaning every time....and you prefer to find fault and condemn the church....Satan is the accuser of the brethren....Hannibal

Babylon has fallen twice in your lifetime, but you don't know it.

There is the real land of Babylon which fell and we found the treasure of Nimrod in a sewer.

The commercial Babylon must also fall as it shows in Revelation 18, and it fell right in front of your eyes while you were watching.

The religion of Babylon is about to fall, and where you didn't recognize the first two, you will realize the third.

God takes his people into Babylon, and then he says,'' Come out of Babylon.''


You follow a worship system designed around the king of Babylon and you keep the traditions of the Messiah of Babylon, you keep the rituals that show the resurrection of your Messiah, and this entire system stands against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, and you still don't know that you are in Babylon.

If a Man practices the ways of Mecca, then he lives in Mecca.

If a Man practices the ways of the king of Jerusalem and it's worship system that teach of the visitation days of the king of Jerusalem, then he lives in Jerusalem.

If a man practices the worship system of Babylon that teach the resurrection of the Babylonian Messiah, then he lives in Babylon.

'' Out of Egypt, I have called my son.''

I assume that you would also deny being an Egyptian.

But are you of Jerusalem?

Do you keep the feasts of Jerusalem?

Or have you come up against Judah and the cause of who even owns Jerusalem?

Has God brought you to fight against Jerusalem?


What will happen to all those who come against Judah and fight against Jerusalem?

 

[visionary]

What did Peter tell these people they would receive if they repented? If they repented, and that means truly repent of all the things that the Lord brings to mind, and then step forward in faith to be named and listed with the other believers by baptism, they would receive the Holy Spirit. Anything held back, and the spirit of Satan has a door to come in and deceive.

 

[dfw69]

What did Peter tell these people they would receive if they repented? If they repented, and that means truly repent of all the things that the Lord brings to mind, and then step forward in faith to be named and listed with the other believers by baptism, they would receive the Holy Spirit. Anything held back, and the spirit of Satan has a door to come in and deceive.

Yes ...repent and believe the good news...that Jesus is lord....not Moses....but I wish not to debate my position in the faith .here...as I am not allowed....and I enjoy my visitation with messianic Jews....I dont want to unwelcome my visitation privileges..peace

 

[dfw69]

Babylon has fallen twice in your lifetime, but you don't know it.

There is the real land of Babylon which fell and we found the treasure of Nimrod in a sewer.

The commercial Babylon must also fall as it shows in Revelation 18, and it fell right in front of your eyes while you were watching.

The religion of Babylon is about to fall, and where you didn't recognize the first two, you will realize the third.

God takes his people into Babylon, and then he says,'' Come out of Babylon.''


You follow a worship system designed around the king of Babylon and you keep the traditions of the Messiah of Babylon, you keep the rituals that show the resurrection of your Messiah, and this entire system stands against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, and you still don't know that you are in Babylon.

If a Man practices the ways of Mecca, then he lives in Mecca.

If a Man practices the ways of the king of Jerusalem and it's worship system that teach of the visitation days of the king of Jerusalem, then he lives in Jerusalem.

If a man practices the worship system of Babylon that teach the resurrection of the Babylonian Messiah, then he lives in Babylon.

'' Out of Egypt, I have called my son.''

I assume that you would also deny being an Egyptian.

But are you of Jerusalem?

Do you keep the feasts of Jerusalem?

Or have you come up against Judah and the cause of who even owns Jerusalem?

Has God brought you to fight against Jerusalem?


What will happen to all those who come against Judah and fight against Jerusalem?

Hannibal if the church is Babylon...then who is the synagague of satan which say they are Jews but do lie?

I will answer your questions now

Ist question....no ...we believe our Jerusalem is new Jerusalem ...that our kingdom is not of this world..that our place is in heaven with our father...we witness to all and invite them to enter into that kingdom above...through faith in the son of God...

2..no ....no one taught me the feast of Jerusalem...I've been trying to understand them while talking with you.....but we seem to always fall into the politics of our faiths and can't get past that........

3..no I am not against the feast ...I don't understand them fully to make that judgement....

4... No I dont fight against Jerusalem....those that seek to wipe Jerusalem off the face of the earth will reap what they sowed...yes I witness of God's love not only for Jerusalem but all men even the hated Arabs...

5... In the final days the nations will gather at mt meggido and will seek to destroy Israel....a remnant is saved....and those armies will reap a curse.....fire from heaven devour them as they stand....

 

[dfw69]

The commission of the final antichrist which is the Assyrian and man of sin and future king of the north is judgement upon the earth for disobeying the laws of Moses.....men are judge for war crimes....for oppression against innocent people....oppression against the poor and fatherless ....for not loving their neighbors....for shedding innocent blood....for shedding the blood of prophets and saints....for falsehood...for lies and hypocrisy...for murders and thefts....for worshipped of gold and silver (mammon)


But of his commission will he overstepped as he will go too far and the nations will be behind him ....and judgement will fall without measure on his kingdom for overstepping his commission...he will go so far as to claim to be God himself...and yahshua will come to destroy him

 

[visionary]

Yes ...repent and believe the good news...that Jesus is lord....not Moses....but I wish not to debate my position in the faith .here...as I am not allowed....and I enjoy my visitation with messianic Jews....I dont want to unwelcome my visitation privileges..peace

Repent by some definitions is not defined by the Law of God. We do repent according to the Holy Spirit convicting us on different aspects of the law [including the spiritual depth that is contained with it]

For example, just because the law doesn't specifically state the mouth is not a sexual orfice doesn't mean it is ok. That conviction must come by the knowledge of what God made every part of the body function and the Holy Spirit teaching its abuse or misuse. It may be the spiritual conviction of derogation that convicts that this is not an uplifting activity for believers.

On other matters, it may be that the wisdom of the last 4000 years of study by the Rabbis, Prophets, and Priest, gives us insight on how the law can be obeyed in a manner pleasing the Lord. It may not be exactly the way the Rabbis of Orthodox Judaism may do it, but it heading in a direction of wanting to honor God.

So repent takes on a whole new level here, and it is by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that we have gathered here to learn Judaism, Yeshua our Messiah, All of scripture to inspire us, and to Live according to His Will, His Way, in His Truth.