What Does Romans 8:29 Mean?

[sealacamp]

But the bigger question, in my view, is why was there a choice to begin with?

even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

Until the time that his word came to pass, The word of the Lord tested him.

“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by the story of a man going on a long trip. He called together his servants and entrusted his money to them while he was gone. He gave five bags of silver to one, two bags of silver to another, and one bag of silver to the last—dividing it in proportion to their abilities. He then left on his trip. “The servant who received the five bags of silver began to invest the money and earned five more. The servant with two bags of silver also went to work and earned two more. But the servant who received the one bag of silver dug a hole in the ground and hid the master’s money.
“After a long time their master returned from his trip and called them to give an account of how they had used his money. The servant to whom he had entrusted the five bags of silver came forward with five more and said, ‘Master, you gave me five bags of silver to invest, and I have earned five more.’
“The master was full of praise. ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let’s celebrate together!
“The servant who had received the two bags of silver came forward and said, ‘Master, you gave me two bags of silver to invest, and I have earned two more.’
“The master said, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let’s celebrate together!’
“Then the servant with the one bag of silver came and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a harsh man, harvesting crops you didn’t plant and gathering crops you didn’t cultivate. I was afraid I would lose your money, so I hid it in the earth. Look, here is your money back.’
“But the master replied, ‘You wicked and lazy servant! If you knew I harvested crops I didn’t plant and gathered crops I didn’t cultivate, why didn’t you deposit my money in the bank? At least I could have gotten some interest on it.’
“Then he ordered, ‘Take the money from this servant, and give it to the one with the ten bags of silver. To those who use well what they are given, even more will be given, and they will have an abundance. But from those who do nothing, even what little they have will be taken away. Now throw this useless servant into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

It is clear from the scriptures that the Lord has determined to test us in this life. In fact Jesus indicated that when the time of testing comes many will lose their faith. He did not say if the time of testing comes he said when the the time of testing comes, therefore, we will be tested, no one is exempt.

Sealcamp

 

[Hammster]

Didn't answer the question. Why was there a law in the garden to begin with?

 

[Texan40]

"Was and is and is to come" is not a timeline, it's God's natural state. Does predetermination imply God's will overriding something else? Does the fact that God knew I would face a decision before I was even born, and knew what choice I would make when faced with it, imply that he "determined" it? This is one of those points where my head gets caught in a feedback loop.

 

[sealacamp]

How does one dead in sins and trespasses choose or accept Christ?

One must be convicted of themselves. Those that remain in rebellion do so because they don't see themselves in that role. In addition those that remain rebellious will be broken by God until they do surrender, either in this life or the next. Now if you pay attention to some people that you may witness to when you start getting the close to the point of conviction and self examination of the deepest kind people tend to become uncomfortable and many will even shout you down so you will stop in your tracks. No one likes to examine the faults they have and to realize that one is a sinner and stands condemned to death is a very painful position. We do what we can but only God can bring someone to the final conviction and brokenness that brings surrender to Him. Oh there is a bit more to it but I think you get the general idea.

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." -Psalm 51:17

Sealacamp

 

[faceofbear]

I agree, I too held a free will type of view for the majority of my life as I was raised in a free will baptist church who taught alter calls and sinners prayers so for most of my life I have viewed salvation as something that was up to me.

Im now seeing more and more evidence to support the calvanist doctrine of salvation and to say the least it has turned my whole world upside down. I often wonder if this is part of what has brought on my deep deep depression that im suffering with right now. Suddenly I feel as though for the majority of my life I have been deceived and im having a very very hard time dealing with that as some of it has led to bitterness and anger and I only hope that their is saving grace still available to me from God.

Don't worry about predestination, honestly, it's not that important and is a stumbling block for a lot of people (including myself). Why do I say not to worry? Let me ask you a rhetoric: Did you or God choose (in case of God, predestine) what you did or didn't eat to day and did that effect what you did or didn't eat? I'm not drinking water right now because I don't want to drink. However, did God predestine me not to be thirsty right now and thus predestine me not to drink? It's irrelevant. The fact is, right now I choose not to drink because I'm not thirsty (even though I'm kind of getting thirsty now). Of course salvation is on a larger scale but even if God predestined you doesn't mean it denies your freewill. I'm choosing to type this message to you, whether God predestined it infinity ago is irrelevant because I'm still using my freewill to type this message.

The way I look at it, Jesus became sin died on the Cross. Sin is dead and thereby has no power. Jesus calls me (and everyone else) to life. Therefore, even if I am dead I have the power to raise to life because God commands me.

Did Lazarus have the ability to rise on His own? No. Jesus commanded it and Lazarus in a sense obeyed. The world is dead, Jesus commands, and some obey. Death has no hold over anyone (as I see it), just people willingly choose death over life.

 

[1611AV]

What Does Romans 8:29 Mean?

Rom 8:29 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Does this say that The Father was predestinated to be the Son. Making the Father into the Son?

Zotah

Never let anyone persuade you from the TRUTH you now have. That King James Bible is TRUTH! The way it speaks is TRUTH! The only way others can get their own views across is to use the newer translations based on the Alexandrian text.

Romans 8:29 (KJ 1611 AV) Teaches us this form of Doctrine:
The forknowledge of God precedes predestination and election (1 Peter 1:2). God knows who will or will not accept the Lord Jesus before He mandates anything. Predestination and election are associated with santification and service, NOT SALVATION. God predestines a Saved person to be conformed to the image of His Son, not to become a son. The final destination of the believer is a sinless heaven with a sinless body, soul and spirit (Rev. 21:27).

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; HOLD FAST that which is good.

In Jesus,

 

[silence_dogood]

How does one dead in sins and trespasses choose or accept Christ?

John Piper likens this idea to a dead man calling 911.

 

[Eleiou]

The only way others can get their own views across is to use the newer translations based on the Alexandrian text.

....... rubbish

 

[Hammster]

....... rubbish

You mean there were reformers prior to 1611? And before the newer translations? And that no reformer ever used the KJV?

 

[1611AV]

You mean there were reformers prior to 1611? And before the newer translations? And that no reformer ever used the KJV?

Don't start Hamster. You assume I'm speaking of reformists? Im not. But others here are. Im speaking in general.

Let us not forget that the Mormons also "use" the King James Bible and look what happened there. You can use the King James and never receive one word. But it does not nullify the fact that one holds Truth in there hands.

I was responding to someone who uses the KJV. I was showing him why our Bible reads differently than other versions. Wether one wants to beleive it or not, the KJV teaches doctrine not seen in other versions. There can only be one truth.

He was told by someone in this thread that many versions read differently than the KJV. That does not make them right.

In Jesus,

 

[Hammster]

It seems like I asked about doctrines in another thread. Never did get a coherent answer.

 

[1611AV]

It seems like I asked about doctrines in another thread. Never did get a coherent answer.

Just reread post #26 when ever you need a refresher in doctrinal difference. The Holy Ghost sheds light on His own word. Man sheds light on his.

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

In Jesus,

 

[Hammster]

Never let anyone persuade you from the TRUTH you now have. That King James Bible is TRUTH! The way it speaks is TRUTH! The only way others can get their own views across is to use the newer translations based on the Alexandrian text.

Romans 8:29 (KJ 1611 AV) Teaches us this form of Doctrine:
The forknowledge of God precedes predestination and election (1 Peter 1:2). God knows who will or will not accept the Lord Jesus before He mandates anything. Predestination and election are associated with santification and service, NOT SALVATION. God predestines a Saved person to be conformed to the image of His Son, not to become a son. The final destination of the believer is a sinless heaven with a sinless body, soul and spirit (Rev. 21:27).

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; HOLD FAST that which is good.

In Jesus,

Wow. Those are the same errors I see non-KJV, man-centered synergists make. I guess you can be wrong no matter what version you use.

 

[Eleiou]

You mean there were reformers prior to 1611? And before the newer translations? And that no reformer ever used the KJV?

I really dislike having to wade through the King James Version only non-sense

I'll use the same Greek stuff Athanasius used (and by extension the literal English translation (NAS) when he defended the deity of our King against the heresy of all heresies!