What does "pro-gay-rights" mean?

[WatersMoon110]

Is it so degrading for society to judge ordinarily fertile sexed couples to be more beneficial to society than always sterile ones?

It doesn't matter whether people in the ordinarily fertile sexed couples are gay or not...

There are already so many children living in foster care or otherwise in need of "forever homes" that it doesn't make sense to say that breeding is always better for society. We need good parents way more than we need more parents. And, same sex couples are perfectly capable of being good parents.

 

[fated]

There are already so many children living in foster care or otherwise in need of "forever homes" that it doesn't make sense to say that breeding is always better for society. We need good parents way more than we need more parents. And, same sex couples are perfectly capable of being good parents.

I don't know that I necessarily disagree.

But:
Is it so degrading for society to judge ordinarily fertile sexed couples to be more beneficial and/or degrading to society when they fail to society than always sterile ones?

It doesn't matter whether people in the ordinarily fertile sexed couples are gay or not...

 

[jamielindas]

Why should the government be interested in whether or not roommates stay together? If they should be interested then the roommate system should be added as well, of course any social justice programs will need to be adjusted accordingly...

what benefits do you think they should get? What benefits is it that you see married people getting?

 

[jamielindas]

I could use prevalence statistics.

that would be difficult since it has been discouraged in the past

 

[WatersMoon110]

I could use prevalence statistics.

Yeah, I'd like to see some as well. Are you suddenly incapable of using Google?

I found a link to the study that CNN Article was about, but nothing on numbers of couples.

[Edit] At the moment, this is the best I can do:

There were an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 gay and lesbian biological parents in 1976.
In 1990, an estimated 6 to 14 million children have a gay or lesbian parent.
Between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in a gay and lesbian households.

 

[fated]

what benefits do you think they should get? What benefits is it that you see married people getting?

This is an important question, due to global warming, I suppose, but the point is, why does marital law exist?

Should renumeration be identical for all types of living situations?

 

[fated]

Yeah, I'd like to see some as well. Are you suddenly incapable of using Google?

I found a link to the study that CNN Article was about, but nothing on numbers of couples.

[Edit] At the moment, this is the best I can do:

I'm sure I'd get the same response if I made some statement concerning statistics like...

Prevalence of breakdown of same-sex couples is much higher than married couples.

 

[BigBadWlf]

How common is adoption among same-sex couples? I would like to see some statistics on that, I still see it as an extraordinary circumstance. How common is having half a dozen children?

According to the national survey of family growth 2004: 65,500 children were adopted by same sex couples between 2002 and 2004, about 5% of al adoptions. 14,100 children are in foster homes headed by gay/lesbian so about 1 in ten children in foster care. 50% of homosexuals under the age of 30 wish to adopt a child.

From a more personal end. I have a friend who is a social worker employed in adoption. She and her co-workers actively recruit same sex couples because they not only make stable loving families they are willing to adopt less desirable children (older than six months, mixed race, handicapped)

so...not that rare at all.

please explain why you are advocating discrimination agaisnt these families

 

[WatersMoon110]

I don't know that I necessarily disagree.

But:
Is it so degrading for society to judge ordinarily fertile sexed couples to be more beneficial and/or degrading to society when they fail to society than always sterile ones?

It doesn't matter whether people in the ordinarily fertile sexed couples are gay or not...

Since you couldn't understand my last post - yes. It is degrading. Sterile couples can adopt children and still help to raise the next generation. There are plenty of people breeding that are not doing any good in society, and plenty of biologically childless people who are doing good. All committed couples are potentially stable situations that the next generation of citizens could be raised in (not that the only thing a couple or person can do that benefits society is raising children, of course).

 

[BigBadWlf]

Is it so degrading for society to judge ordinarily fertile sexed couples to be more beneficial to society than always sterile ones?

It doesn't matter whether people in the ordinarily fertile sexed couples are gay or not...

Its degrading to ignore the struggle for equality that so many Americans had to and continue to endure

 

[WatersMoon110]

I'm sure I'd get the same response if I made some statement concerning statistics like...

Prevalence of breakdown of same-sex couples is much higher than married couples.

Source?

 

[BigBadWlf]

I could use prevalence statistics.

So I guess you really didn’t want statistics on the topic after all

 

[fated]

That is fairly impressive...

This is 1 in 6 US children or 1 in 7 live with a gay parent.

Probably deserves another look...

This gets right to the point:
Are children of gay couples as healthy as those of similarly prosperous typically fertile sexed* couples?



*I love the term breeding, we should keep using it!

 

[fated]

Isn't that what I said would happen?

Do you have a source?

 

[BigBadWlf]

This gets right to the point:
Are children of gay couples as healthy as those of similarly prosperous typically fertile sexed* couples?

According to the research…yes
Do you have published peer reviewed research that says otherwise?

 

[WatersMoon110]

Isn't that what I said would happen?

Do you have a source?

Dude. I totally linked to my sources in the very post you quoted. That's what those pretty blue underlined words are, links to my sources. You'll also note the quote, right under the source it is from. You made a random assertion.

What information are you asking for me to source in this round-about way?

 

[BigBadWlf]

Prevalence of breakdown of same-sex couples is much higher than married couples.

Please provide actual evidence to back up this claim

 

[jamielindas]

Isn't that what I said would happen?

Do you have a source?

This is an older study, but here
http://www.fiu.edu/~girardc/3120gay.htm

 

[jamielindas]

Isn't that what I said would happen?

Do you have a source?

Child Outcome.
· Children conceived by lesbian mother through DI found to be just as well adjusted as children born to heterosexual couple. (Flaks, et. al, 1995)
· Adolescents of lesbian mother no different in self-esteem than from heter. mother. (Huggins, 1989)
· No difference found in IQ or WISC-R (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised) between children of lesbians vs. M/F couple. (Green et. al, 1986; Flaks, et. al, 1995)
· No difference in peer relations between children of lesbians and M/F couple. (Golombok, et. al, 1983)
· Self-reports reveal no difference in being teased as a child for adolescent daughters of lesb. compared to M/F. (Green at. al, 1986)
· Not the case for boys: More likely to have been teased than girls about having same-sex parents. (Tasker & Golombok, 1997)
· No difference in psych. adjustment for children of 2 fem. vs. M/F. (Flaks, 1995)
· No difference on measures of emotion, deviant behavior, or relationships. (Golombok, et. al, 1983)
· No difference in likelihood of anxiety or depression in later life for lesbian offspring vs. M/F. (Tasker, 1997)
· Gender Role: children of lesbians just as likely as M/F kids to pick "gender-appropriate toys". (Hoeffer, 1981)

 

[Maren]

First, I don't see any reason to believe that the government has to be interested whatsoever in a persons sexual orientation with regards to marriage.

I agree, so gays should be able to marry. The government should not care.

I further believe that it can clearly see a typical reproductive difference between same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples.

Except this is not a part of marriage now. We do not require any fertility tests prior to marriage. In fact, there are states that actually require some couples to prove they are incapable of having children prior to allowing them to marry.

In point of fact, very few, if any, of the benefits of marriage depend on children. Almost all (and possibly all) of the benefits that are often attributed to married people with children are equally available to single parents.

Now, that still doesn't address the other questions I have raised regarding the justifiability of the social programs that surround marriage as it is today. Many of these programs give money to people simply becuase they are married,

I'm not aware of any programs that give money to people simply for being married. What programs are you speaking of?

and while living with another person does make consumption more efficient and provide a stable foundation for children, I don't see any reason why a couple with no children (by circumstance or choice) deserves the same level of social justice care as those who raise several children, all of whom cost considerable amounts of money.

Except, again, you are relying on a purpose for marriage that has been proven false. When we require some people to prove they cannot reproduce before allowing them to marry, when we allow the elderly who are incapable of reproduction.

Maybe a question, about a year ago, Washington state proposed a law that would limit marriage to those who have children. If a couple got married, they had two years to have a child -- if they did not then the state would dissolve their marriage. So, based on your idea that marriage is for reproduction, would you support such a law? Why or why not?

I don't understand how I am ignoring the interest of the children who need stable couples, ideally for generations, for optimum care.

Because you appear to make the assumption that gay couples, or infertile couples, will not adopt, become foster parents, or even use services such as sperm banks, surrogate mothers, etc. to have children.