What does it mean to be carnal?

[Conservativation]

That's the whole purpose of asking others, Cons. If she were looking for a particular definition......based on HER feelings......wouldn't she just come up with it herself and claim HER definition as THE definition and leave it at that? Saying......"when I say, "carnal"...this is what I mean........".

No, not really

If I were trying to paint carnal with a certain brush, i would ask people, magnify those that agree, contradict those that have a different opinion, then work in some examples that are suggestive of whats been said in other threads that are in violation to what i think.

Pretty much where this is headed

 

[mkgal1]

No, not really

If I were trying to paint carnal with a certain brush, i would ask people, magnify those that agree, contradict those that have a different opinion, then work in some examples that are suggestive of whats been said in other threads that are in violation to what i think.

Pretty much where this is headed

That's what YOU would do.....Romans isn't you. That's presumptuous to suggest that she is "trying to paint carnal with a certain brush." Why would one even HAVE to paint it with any particular brush? Carnality is in opposition to God........no one has to magnify the destruction......it's harmful enough as it is, left alone.

 

[dallasapple]

That's what YOU would do.....Romans isn't you.

Exactly..its what he will call "pop" psychology but its pretty basic 101..hes 'projecting"

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

That's what YOU would do.....Romans isn't you. That's presumptuous to suggest that she is "trying to paint carnal with a certain brush." Why would one even HAVE to paint it with any particular brush? Carnality is in opposition to God........no one has to magnify the destruction......it's harmful enough as it is, left alone.

Exactly ..but some would want ot "minimize it' though.

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

Exactly ..but some would want ot "minimize it' though.

Dallas

Exactly.....and that is pretty serious. Look at 1 Corinthians 6:9-17. It's not something to take lightly or to minimize.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I am going to repost my original response to you Cons.

If too many people are being called carnal, that shouldn't be, isn't that a good reason to clearly define the meaning? I mean, we can't just throw it out since it is something brought up in scripture many times. In fact, it's a core concept of Christianity. So, understanding it's meaning clearly is quite important.

I am wanting to dig into the scriptures with other's insights, to help me gain clarity on the issue. I think that there are differing opinions about what it is, so I want to gain clarity. If I don't have clarity on it, how can I know when I am being it?

 

[Romanseight2005]

No, not really

If I were trying to paint carnal with a certain brush, i would ask people, magnify those that agree, contradict those that have a different opinion, then work in some examples that are suggestive of whats been said in other threads that are in violation to what i think.

Pretty much where this is headed

Have I done this? If you have an understanding of this topic,(not me) then please post it on here. If you just want to criticize me for starting the thread, then please do not post on here.

 

[mkgal1]

Have I done this? If you have an understanding of this topic,(not me) then please post it on here. If you just want to criticize me for starting the thread, then please do not post on here.

Does the lack of response mean that is the answer?

 

[Romanseight2005]

1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

The bolded part is interesting. It's as if we are expected to be more than mere men/women.

This passage illuminates this:
Rom 12:1-2

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
NKJV


metamorphoo is the greek word that the word transformed translates to.

And this passage:
2 Cor 3:15-4:1
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.


NKJV

 

[Romanseight2005]

Nope not the same at all. Generally, across many topics, not even specifically defined as yet topics, to say best to focus on self and not be so bothered splitting hairs about others is not the same as painting people as carnal.

Somehow I am confident you have been able to file this all in such a way that for you it is not about pointing at others. In the mix of posts here lately about sex and virtue and sos then this, its clear that you and a couple of others are VERY bothered about men being carnal, and in need of this definition.

You have the scriptures, Im not sure you will gain, or accept any insight from the very people who you see AS carnal. So, there is no spiritual profit margin in the topic in this context of these recent threads. Please don't try and tell me this came up out of the blue, and not as a response to not getting what you wanted out of the efforts to paint lust negatively.

Things dont get to mean the meaning that gets you the feelings you want. They mean what they mean, independent of your feelings. Seeking this definition, so to speak, is like a form of vindication, lacking a perfect word

Actually, I am seeking to understand the concept better, for a large plethora of reasons, including, my understanding of my own behavior. From what i can tell, causing dissensions is carnal. If I am doing this, I want to know. None of us can worry about ourselves in this matter, if we are not seeing clearly, or deeply enough. It helps me to do this with other people, getting their input. And if I do happen to think someone may be being carnal, that doesn't mean that i am better than them, and it does mean that I do want to hear their understanding of the term. We are to not lean on our own understanding, so it certainly helps, to get clarification.

Frankly, discussing a biblical issue should be a proper thing to do, rather you think there is an ill motive behind it, or not. (Which I can assure you, I do have proper motives) But even if I didn't, it would still be beneficial in helping people to clarify their own understanding of this issue, by reading through this thread.

Phil 1:15-18

15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached ; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
NKJV

 

[mkgal1]

Actually, I am seeking to understand the concept better, for a large plethora of reasons, including, my understanding of my own behavior. From what i can tell, causing dissensions is carnal. If I am doing this, I want to know. None of us can worry about ourselves in this matter, if we are not seeing clearly, or deeply enough. It helps me to do this with other people, getting their input.

Frankly, discussing a biblical issue should be a proper thing to do, rather you think there is an ill motive behind it, or not. (Which I can assure you, I do have proper motives) But even if I didn't, it would still be beneficial in helping people to clarify their own understanding of this issue, by reading through this thread.

Phil 1:15-18

15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached ; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
NKJV

Excellent points. In reading that passage (and many others, too)....we CANNOT ONLY worry about ourselves. Who we listen to.....what we read......and who we spend out time with, all influences our way of thinking. If we don't discern what is being said......we can easily be pulled in a direction that is in opposition to God.

1st Corinthians 6, verse 19, shows the responsibility we have to be discerning....

Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price.

 

[mkgal1]

Another thing is.....in order to "live for God"...we are entering into a battle. The gospel of Matthew says that a person is either for or against God.....there is no in between, so......we need to know where that line is clearly drawn in each circumstance--every choice we make. It's a step-by-step thing.....not an overall how-you-live-your life thing.

Like Peter......he went from being "for God".....immediately into believing a lie that was "against God" (when Jesus told him, "get behind me, Satan". Combining our instruction to love God with all we have, along with the instruction to love others as we love ourselves.......there is a lot we need to have a grasp on....as far as what "right" even looks like. We can't go by how others react, because that can also lead us astray.....

We prove ourselves by our purity, our understanding, our patience, our kindness, by the Holy Spirit within us, and by our sincere love. 7 We faithfully preach the truth. God’s power is working in us. We use the weapons of righteousness in the right hand for attack and the left hand for defense. 8 We serve God whether people honor us or despise us, whether they slander us or praise us. We are honest, but they call us impostors. 9 We are ignored, even though we are well known.

You adulterers! Don’t you realize that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God? I say it again: If you want to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God. 5 What do you think the Scriptures mean when they say that the spirit God has placed within us is filled with envy? 6 But he gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As the Scriptures say,

“God opposes the proud
but favors the humble.” 7 So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world. 9 Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief.

 

[Romanseight2005]

That's just it, there are many scriptures that warn against deception. We are warned over and over, about being deceived. That is why it is so important to seek the truth. Scriptures also tell us to have many counselors. So, while we need to be discerning, we are also expected to not only do this on our own.

Think about this.
Heb 3:12-19

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

16 Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers


For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
NKJV


And this...

Matt 13:22-23
2 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

So there is a recurring theme in the scriptures, that we can be deceived. There is also a recurring theme, that deception robs us of truth, which robs us of freedom. Deception also causes us to be unfruitful.
NKJV

 

[Romanseight2005]

Excellent points. In reading that passage (and many others, too)....we CANNOT ONLY worry about ourselves. Who we listen to.....what we read......and who we spend out time with, all influences our way of thinking. If we don't discern what is being said......we can easily be pulled in a direction that is in opposition to God.

1st Corinthians 6, verse 19, shows the responsibility we have to be discerning....

This brings to mind this scripture.
James 5:19-20

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
NKJV