What does God hate?

ByTheSpirit

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So in a facebook group of open air preachers, a lot has been said concerning repentance and condemnation. Certain individuals use John 3:18 as text to support their message of condemnation and go so far as to say God hates sinners. That's right, God hates sinners apparently, which I was then informed God loves those who love Him and that is proved by repentance. Me being the individual I am, disagreed and using Romans 5:8 and 1 John 4:10 told these people that God loves sinners still.

So are turn or burn preachers right? Does God really hate sinners? Is God's love only for those who love him in return?
 
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gideons300

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So in a facebook group of open air preachers, a lot has been said concerning repentance and condemnation. Certain individuals use John 3:18 as text to support their message of condemnation and go so far as to say God hates sinners. That's right, God hates sinners apparently, which I was then informed God loves those who love Him and that is proved by repentance. Me being the individual I am, disagreed and using Romans 5:8 and 1 John 4:10 told these people that God loves sinners still.

So are turn or burn preachers right? Does God really hate sinners? Is God's love only for those who love him in return?

First, I think there may be a difference between turn or burn preaching and God hating sinners. The truth is Jesus was a turn or burn preacher. His warnings were scary and very real.

I think one can be a turn or burn preacher, but it better be with plenty of tears, prayers and love mixed in. Nothing comes across as more haughty and unappealing as a preacher who does not love those he is warning.

As to what God hates? He hates sin. Loves the sinner. That is why Christ died.... when we were sinners Christ loved us. But...sin must be forsaken and repented of for that love to be received.

Now at the end? When even after tribulation, men and women are raising their fists I the air to God, saying "We will NOT have you to reign over us!", it will be then, after grace is rejected, that we are told that Jesus will wail like a woman in labor, so great will be the anger of the Lord. It is then that lost men will pray.... to the mountains..... to fall on them and hide them from the anger of the lamb. Hell is real, as is God's hatred of sin. He cannot even have it in His presence, for He is a holy God, a consuming fire.

There is nothing wrong with turn or burn preaching for we are told that some are to be saved by fear, and that fear is the beginning of wisdom. The problem is people preach without the fruits of the Spirit being displayed and it is really disturbing to even listen to, at least to me.

As well, there is nothing wrong with loving people into the kingdom. God can and will use both.

Blessings, my good friend

Gids
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I understand what you say to an extent. I just don't think God is a big fan of turn or burn preaching. It puts way to much emphasis on us, as individuals. You better repent, or you will burn in hell.

The message should be about Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God. The promised One who came into the world to bear our sins in his flesh! Through the power of the Spirit of God, he set people free from sickness and death. He suffered and died on the cross. Shedding his blood for our sins because he loves us! 3 days after being buried he rose again from the tomb proving he is indeed the Son of God so that all who believe in Him will be saved and receive the Holy Spirit. Now repent of your sins, turn towards God and seek Him continually!

There is a vast difference between the two I think.
 
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katerinah1947

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First, I think there may be a difference between turn or burn preaching and God hating sinners. The truth is Jesus was a turn or burn preacher. His warnings were scary and very real.

I think one can be a turn or burn preacher, but it better be with plenty of tears, prayers and love mixed in. Nothing comes across as more haughty and unappealing as a preacher who does not love those he is warning.

As to what God hates? He hates sin. Loves the sinner. That is why Christ died.... when we were sinners Christ loved us. But...sin must be forsaken and repented of for that love to be received.

Now at the end? When even after tribulation, men and women are raising their fists I the air to God, saying "We will NOT have you to reign over us!", it will be then, after grace is rejected, that we are told that Jesus will wail like a woman in labor, so great will be the anger of the Lord. It is then that lost men will pray.... to the mountains..... to fall on them and hide them from the anger of the lamb. Hell is real, as is God's hatred of sin. He cannot even have it in His presence, for He is a holy God, a consuming fire.

There is nothing wrong with turn or burn preaching for we are told that some are to be saved by fear, and that fear is the beginning of wisdom. The problem is people preach without the fruits of the Spirit being displayed and it is really disturbing to even listen to, at least to me.

As well, there is nothing wrong with loving people into the kingdom. God can and will use both.

Blessings, my good friend

Gids

God hates dishonesty in any form is my personal opinion. Fear of the Lord there,is how fear is worded in the Bible as I recall. That meaning is really fear of hurting Him, it is not normally fear of His punishment. It is fear of losing his care, His love. God is powerful, but also tender and mild. If God as people see him is so harsh, why does John only speak only of love?
If the demons fear Him, then why are they not saved? It is fear of hurting Him, his feelings. The demons care not about his feelings except to hurt those. I say, when love is transgressed greatly, so great, and for so long a time that the perpetrators will not change, then only is when God has no other choice and does physically hurt others. He does that to protect the rest of us.

...Katerina/C.
 
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Andy S. Wright

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What does God hate?

Proverbs 6:16-19 answers that question in unmistakable terms.

"These six things the Lord hates, yea, seven are an abomination to Him.
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among the brethren."

I'd wager most Christians' "top seven list of sins they hate" aren't even in the same zip code as God's.

ASW
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I find it interesting that you don't see anywhere in the book of Acts where someone says, "You're going to burn in hell if you don't believe"...

Not that the particular statement is false, it is true, but what are we to do? Catch fish, or destroy them?

Turn and burn preaching is a quick way to give people the impression that God is nothing but a hateful and even vengeful God who seeks to destroy the unbelieving.

That is not the case. He LOVES us with a love that none of us will ever come close to understanding. It is why he gives us his Holy Spirit. To demonstrate his love to the world through signs, wonders, POWER! His love through the Spirit draws men to himself.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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What does God hate?

Proverbs 6:16-19 answers that question in unmistakable terms.

"These six things the Lord hates, yea, seven are an abomination to Him.
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among the brethren."

I'd wager most Christians' "top seven list of sins they hate" aren't even in the same zip code as God's.

ASW

True, but not exactly what I asked. Does God hate sinners is what I asked.
 
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Andy S. Wright

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True, but not exactly what I asked. Does God hate sinners is what I asked.

The short answer to your question is "no". God does not hate sinners.

The thief on the cross seems to cover that point fairly succinctly.

Saul of Tarsus didn't earn God's hate despite his penchant for killing Christians.

Simon Peter did not receive hatred from God despite his open (and vulgar) denial of Christ to His face.

The list goes on. The scriptures are saturated in stories of men who deserved God's hate-filled wrath but found grace instead.
 
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gideons300

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I understand what you say to an extent. I just don't think God is a big fan of turn or burn preaching. It puts way to much emphasis on us, as individuals. You better repent, or you will burn in hell.

The message should be about Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God. The promised One who came into the world to bear our sins in his flesh! Through the power of the Spirit of God, he set people free from sickness and death. He suffered and died on the cross. Shedding his blood for our sins because he loves us! 3 days after being buried he rose again from the tomb proving he is indeed the Son of God so that all who believe in Him will be saved and receive the Holy Spirit. Now repent of your sins, turn towards God and seek Him continually!

There is a vast difference between the two I think.

I can accept that, but with balance. In the gospels, entire chapters are devoted to hell, eternal punishment, the need for repentance, etc. BUT, He did it in love. Most who take this road have a) no balance and b) no love.

We are counseled to behold the goodness AND the severity of God, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord. Balance.

Good post.

Gids
 
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Frogster

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He hated the deeds of the Nicolations, not them.

2:6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Yet, but this gal I dunno..... Doesn't sound to loving...chuck her in a sickbed!:D



. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants[c] to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
 
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gideons300

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I find it interesting that you don't see anywhere in the book of Acts where someone says, "You're going to burn in hell if you don't believe"...

Not that the particular statement is false, it is true, but what are we to do? Catch fish, or destroy them?

Turn and burn preaching is a quick way to give people the impression that God is nothing but a hateful and even vengeful God who seeks to destroy the unbelieving.

That is not the case. He LOVES us with a love that none of us will ever come close to understanding. It is why he gives us his Holy Spirit. To demonstrate his love to the world through signs, wonders, POWER! His love through the Spirit draws men to himself.
I agree. But T or B preaching is almost never accompanied by tears from the sharer. The effect come across as quite different if the mouth speaking it is humble, sincere, and genuinely concerned.

Charles Finney liked preaching three day meetings. He stated once that after night one, you will hate him. By the end of the second wave of preaching you would be crying. But by the third night, you would be shouting for joy. One of the big things missing in todays evangelical preaching is balance to warn them so that real repentance will take place, not just an emotional response to the thought of a nice God.

Jonathon Edwards wrote a sermon once called "Sinners in the hands of an angry God". As he traveled from pulpit to pulpit, he would simply read it out loud, monotone. But the effects of that sermon, back by his deep prayers for the lost who would hear it, were simply amazing. People would wail in repentance, and feel they were being dangled over hell, never to se that loving face again. Balance.

Oh, yes, we must live people into the kingdom, but if we neglect the counting of the cost, or the severity of God if we ignore Him, or the need to lose our life because we ARE sin as old natured people, we will have in the end a church that looks like today's church, where there is simply no fear in our sinning and thus no real heart repentance, for a loving God would never send me to hell, right?

The key is the condition of the heart of the one preaching. If we do not weep while we warn, we will have the commonly thought of "turn or burn" preaching, and I agree, it will not work well.

Listen to James:

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up."




And what did Jesus Himself say about the need for getting sin out of our lives?

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Is that not a perfect example of turn or burn preaching? But sadly, the legalistic shouts of angry, pride filled men have contorted our take on warning people that this is not something to ignore, and we can scarcely comprehend someone sharing lovingly that they are concerned for their souls and that love compels them to warn the lost "I beseech thee. Be ye reconciled to God!"

But yes, according to what you are describing, it is not effective, unless the effect desired is to push an inquirer away.

Blessings Bryan

Gids
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I agree gids that T or B preaching in parts has its purpose but the problem is honestly by and large those who use the method do so in a condescending manner.

For example, on my FB page, the group in my OP I was called a spoiled brat, ignorant, and told I needed a good beating because I disagreed with those people that:

a) John 3:18 isn't about condemnation but rather in context is about God's mercy and love

b) Repentance isn't the message but rather the response to the message. The message should always be Jesus, the response to the message should be to repent.

c) The big one that God actually loves sinners. They said God only loves those who loves him. Thats ridiculous for none of us loved God before he redeemed us. But they insist that God hates sinners with an unending passion and fury that only repentance can soothe.

For that i was ridiculed and chastised by those who claim to be better than myself.

Needless to say, I left the group with the parable of Luke 18:9-14 and said my goodbyes...
 
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katerinah1947

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I agree gids that T or B preaching in parts has its purpose but the problem is honestly by and large those who use the method do so in a condescending manner.

For example, on my FB page, the group in my OP I was called a spoiled brat, ignorant, and told I needed a good beating because I disagreed with those people that:

a) John 3:18 isn't about condemnation but rather in context is about God's mercy and love

b) Repentance isn't the message but rather the response to the message. The message should always be Jesus, the response to the message should be to repent.

c) The big one that God actually loves sinners. They said God only loves those who loves him. Thats ridiculous for none of us loved God before he redeemed us. But they insist that God hates sinners with an unending passion and fury that only repentance can soothe.

For that i was ridiculed and chastised by those who claim to be better than myself.

Needless to say, I left the group with the parable of Luke 18:9-14 and said my goodbyes...

Hi,
Occasionally I have been in sessions where T&B is there. In all of those preachers who I have encountered, they are just mean people posing well as nice people.
Consider Matthew 7:15. Then consider Matthew 7:16 to try and figure out what Matthew 7:15 might mean if the Holy Spirt told you one day, that a certain group is Matthew 7:15. Yes that did happen to me. I looked to God meaning up and said that I have nothing for another group after I had just finished with a group from a religion that I had much knowledge of. Matthew 7:15, came back at me, as knowledge not words, as I heard no words. I looked it up.
Well the short story is I used Matthew 7:16, to understand why this group was under the heading of Matthew 7"15, by God.
Later I learned that Matthew 7:16, lets us know who all the Wolves in Sheeps Clolthing are. T&B preachers should be careful, as Jesus in Tender and Mild, He is not T&B. T&B is just a point of honesty with Jesus, when working with some people, in my opinion.

...Katerina.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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One of the things about T & B preaching is that it is very hard to turn a believer's heart from extreme fear, back to love in the way that God wants us to love Him and others. Almost every person I know that has been saved by T & B preaching also shares the gospel (I say 'gospel' loosely as it means 'good news') to others in the same manner they were taught. I don't really see those people ever cross over into love as who and what God is.

The second thing is Jesus never used this type of sharing with people. Jesus even spent time with the type of people who proabably would be a T & B archtype in describing who was going to hell. As He is the only sinless one and the only perfect one I cannot see directly contradicting His own style of sharing truth with the T & B style of preaching. It doesn't exist.

The other thing with T & B style preaching is even if the preacher is crying that really has minimal if any effect on the people listening.

But just like here on CF most will use the style they feel comfortable with. or better yet, what worked for them to get saved. Even though Jesus said to follow me and do as I do, most think that their way is better than even Jesus.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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Hi,
Occasionally I have been in sessions where T&B is there. In all of those preachers who I have encountered, they are just mean people posing well as nice people.

I think so too. Because in order to really do T & B effectively that has to be your own mindset of what God is. Then we get to the bible and we see that God doesn't want us to fear Him. That His love is our comfort from and that in Him we overcome fear. We are told we can enter into His rest. His rest is our place of comfort and solace.
 
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katerinah1947

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One of the things about T & B preaching is that it is very hard to turn a believer's heart from extreme fear, back to love in the way that God wants us to love Him and others. Almost every person I know that has been saved by T & B preaching also shares the gospel (I say 'gospel' loosely as it means 'good news') to others in the same manner they were taught. I don't really see those people ever cross over into love as who and what God is.

The second thing is Jesus never used this type of sharing with people. Jesus even spent time with the type of people who proabably would be a T & B archtype in describing who was going to hell. As He is the only sinless one and the only perfect one I cannot see directly contradicting His own style of sharing truth with the T & B style of preaching. It doesn't exist.

The other thing with T & B style preaching is even if the preacher is crying that really has minimal if any effect on the people listening.

But just like here on CF most will use the style they feel comfortable with. or better yet, what worked for them to get saved. Even though Jesus said to follow me and do as I do, most think that their way is better than even Jesus.

Hi,
Using your last lines only to say something in support of your observations on Christ and His style, note what Paul really speaking under the inspirations of the Holy Spirit said to T&B types and the rest of us back then.

You are given faith, you did not earn it. You did nothing. Nothing. God has done it all in you. You have not. You have done no great work.
He then, and there or in other sections again speaking under the inspiration of The Holy Spirit, lets us know everyone on earth will see Jesus in the end, not just us who have been given faith.

The point in case it is missed so far, is it is God Who determines when and if any of us will know Jesus on this earth. it is not T&B preachers. It is not I. It is not you. God calls, and that is also reiteraterd earlier in John 6 I think, and maybe John 7. It is that Jesus and not any of us is our teacher. He also if He wishes to do so, introduces us to His Father.

The idea that unless one accepts in the way we think, not the way God thinks and feels, Jesus and God, is most certainly at the heart of the problem with many Christians.
Nowhere does it say, that unless you are specifically this or that, then God punishes you, with Hell. On the contrary, that guy on the cross next to Jesus, is the least of us in a way. He did know Jesus did no wrong and said so. He told the other man to be quiet. He also admitted to Jesus that he did wrong, when he said you and I deserve to be here, but just how many ways do you think there are to do that. It is many.

Jesus is ~Infinitely Infinitely Infinitely and then some tender and mild.~ He is also God, and as such historically like in Sodom and Gamorrah, helped the world by removing those who hurt the rest of us.
Do you think God wanted to hurt those people? He did not. Look at Ninevah, and the conversations with Jonah. It is clear there that He does not.

To understand God in this way, being tender and mild, but the amount that I propose to you and said, think each of us of our mother. When she had to, was she not scary? When she did not have to was she not tender and mild? Did she not punish sometimes? Did she not punish to really keep us from hurting others? Did she not love us always?

How is tender and mild that much different from that example above? I don't see the difference except in magnitude, or in accuracy with God, as even moms some of the time are wrong. So are dads wrong some of the time. God is..... Well you decide. I have my observations.
...Kateina.
 
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Tiernon

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There is no hate in god. If it has been written that way it is only to help us understand, to teach us in a way we can comprehend. God loves all, sinners and non sinners alike. This is the reason he sent us his son in Jesus to die for our sin as he loves us, it is why he let Noah build his arc and to continue, it is why adam and eve were cast out instead of being destroyed. It is why Lucifer was cast from heaven rather than be destroyed. God loves you if you love god or not. This love is universal and unyielding and beyond our full comprehension because there is always a why?
 
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SeventyOne

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The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy , that we are more comfortahose who speak lies; the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Psalms 5:5-6

The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.
Psalms 11:5

Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more;
Hosea 9:15

And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.
Lev 20:23


Yes, if His words mean anything, He hates as well as loves. I think the issue is not that He hates, but rather mans imposition on the nature of God, declaring He cannot both love and hate at the same time. That's where the flaw in the thinking is. Scripture says He loves and scripture says He hates, and we either just have to deal with that reality, or make up our own substitute reality and form a god of our own image, one that we are more comfortable with.
 
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SeventyOne

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I find it interesting that you don't see anywhere in the book of Acts where someone says, "You're going to burn in hell if you don't believe"...


It's there.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained
Acts 17:30-31​

That's what you call an ultimatum. God COMMANDS repentance of all men, because hellfire judgment is both coming and certain.
 
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