What do parallel universes mean for Christians

[2consider]

Really?

Yes really.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Is the idea so incompatible with Christianity the God we worship EXISTS outside the physical universe.

Let me rephrase the statement in the form of a question, please: "If God exists initially and solely IN the physical universe, could He have originated (created) the universe? I think not, for the same reason a character inside a novel could at some point, initially WRITE the novel.

It is possible for God to have created the Universe and thereafter entered the Universe (Christians seem to think He did in the Person of Jesus Christ; being a Christian I agree), just as a writer can - and has - written themselves into a novel as a character (either using their real name or nom de guerre.

Therefore, I am agreement with you. It is not incompatible with Christian theology that God exists - initially and permanently - outside our (either presumptive or scientific understanding of the) Universe.

I don't subscribe to multiverses or parallel universes, universe theory myself...

I have a hard time from the perspective of known cosmology and physics in accepting multi- or parallel universes; I don't see an over-riding reason to do so. On the other hand, I think it foolish to claim "God COULDN'T do that!" in reference to anything to which the claimant objects. The Lord Who Commands Armies is not limited by my tastes or preferences, despite my oft-times implications and not unsubstantial ego.

...but this creator God of ours like i said exists outside that physical universe. This suggests there is some sort of other dimension or maybe even more than one beyond our Physical universe.

I agree completely. By whatever name one wishes to identify it, Heaven, Eternity or God's Abode, Almighty God existed prior to the establishment (Creation) of this Universe.

 

[mark kennedy]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

As far as I can tell the multiverse is idle speculation popular among physicist. It's a myth, not unlike stone age ape men. String theory is not backed by any peer reviewed scientific papers that I can locate.

This picture of the universe, or multiverse, as it is called, explains the long-standing mystery of why the constants of nature appear to be fine-tuned for the emergence of life. The reason is that intelligent observers exist only in those rare bubbles in which, by pure chance, the constants happen to be just right for life to evolve. The rest of the multiverse remains barren, but no one is there to complain about that. (The Case for Parallel Universes, Scientific American)
​

That's the proof? It's a lot of convoluted nonsense with no actual science, only scientists backing it. It's what happens when you simply remove God as first cause, all you have is random nothingness.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[Willtor]

As far as I can tell the multiverse is idle speculation popular among physicist. It's a myth, not unlike stone age ape men. String theory is not backed by any peer reviewed scientific papers that I can locate.

This picture of the universe, or multiverse, as it is called, explains the long-standing mystery of why the constants of nature appear to be fine-tuned for the emergence of life. The reason is that intelligent observers exist only in those rare bubbles in which, by pure chance, the constants happen to be just right for life to evolve. The rest of the multiverse remains barren, but no one is there to complain about that. (The Case for Parallel Universes, Scientific American)
​

That's the proof? It's a lot of convoluted nonsense with no actual science, only scientists backing it. It's what happens when you simply remove God as first cause, all you have is random nothingness.

Have a nice day
Mark

(emphasis mine)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=string+theory+pnas&l=1

 

[SkyWriting]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).
I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

Some churches pass a collection plate, others don't.
It's like that.

 

[chilehed]

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

It's not. The correct Christian attitude is "if God made parallel universes, then he's the God of them as well. I needn't trouble myself about it".

 

[Radrook]

It can very easily be interpreted as a Satanic attempt to promote the original lie that regardless of our conduct we don't really die. After all, we are well and alive in other countless universes or parallel realities where we are living the many possible ramifications of every single action we take. Damn! How crafty bees that Edenic snake!

 

[Radrook]

Some churches pass a collection plate, others don't.
It's like that.

The catholic church I attended in NJ had these long-handled metallic baskets which were thrust under each churchgoer's nose and kept there embarrassingly long enough to induce a charitable contribution.

 

[tatteredsoul]

.

 

[SkyWriting]

Even in physics, the multiverse is a gross misnomer.

There are many, many dimensions, and manifolds of dimensions that mimic "universes," but there is one universe.

Multiverses refers to the fact that electrons
do not operate in a specific place, but rather
in a cloud of possibilities.
All through the history of science we've found
that the properties of "small" things also apply
to the "larger" things. With this as the basis,
if this is extrapolated to "our" collection of electrons
then each moment creates a seperate universe possibility.
These expand constantly and each creates it's own
possibilities.

 

[juvenissun]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

The Bible tells us that there are Heavens right from the beginning.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

The Bible tells us that there are Heavens right from the beginning.

The Hebrew word used in the first verse of the Bible is 'shemayim' (H8064) which is a plural form and the singular form is not used in Hebrew. So it is always translated as 'heavens'. (Just like the English word 'themselves' is always used in plural, very rarely in singular form (themself).

It means either the atmosphere of Earth, air and visible sky, the visible astronomical sky (not in the modern sense, but the place of the stars) and the abode of God (not visible). One cannot logically infer an alternate dimension or universe from this word alone.

As I've already mentioned, there are scientific reasons for questioning the theory. It assumes (not finds by evidence or conclusion) the existence of an Eternal (go beginning and no end) 'multi-verse' or 'Bulk' which is immune to entropy and which - as far as can be determined - accidentally causes Universes like ours to begin.

Which is very similar to God, except for the intelligence and the moral precepts.

 

[Revealing Times]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

Scientists arguments were getting silly just based on how unlikely this universe could have appeared per chance, so of course they invented a theory that can never be tested, which imho, shows to what ends they will go to deny our creator.

Why can't the universe be eternal ?

The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.

 

[juvenissun]

The Hebrew word used in the first verse of the Bible is 'shemayim' (H8064) which is a plural form and the singular form is not used in Hebrew. So it is always translated as 'heavens'. (Just like the English word 'themselves' is always used in plural, very rarely in singular form (themself).

Ever consider WHY is that the case? Does it imply that God creates universes right at the beginning?

Scientific speculation on this issue is simply no better than theological understanding. In fact, I learned the science of parallel universe FIRST. Then I suddenly noticed that the Bible says exactly the same thing right at the first chapter.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Ever consider WHY is that the case? Does it imply that God creates universes right at the beginning?

Not to me it doesn't. Here's why.

In the ancient world there were 'three heavens'. Paul mentions later - depending on one's understanding, between four thousand and 13.74 billion years later - a man taken up to the 'third heaven'. (Second Corinthians 12:2)

The First Heaven was the atmosphere of Earth. The air, clouds, birds (not 'part' of it, but flying about in it) and so on.

The Second Heaven was the visible sky, not reachable by trees, birds and such.

The Third Heaven was God's abode.

The Universe, in that the Universe was a much larger structure than the solar system and the - in ancient times, five - planets, was not discovered or identified until Edwin Hubble made some discoveries between 1924 and 1929 which ultimately developed into the knowledge our Solar System is part of our Galaxy, which is NOT the entire Universe.

At the time of the writing of the Pentateuch, this was not known. One could easily claim God knew it already and I certainly agree. However, there are a whole lot of things God didn't tell Moses at the time. Probably because a late stone age - early bronze, possibly iron age mind simply would not understand it. (For the same reason students don't get calculus classes prior to passing arithmetic and then algebra classes.)

And the Hebrew language word shemayim, although in the plural form does not particular indicate more than one. No more than 'the heavens' in English means more than one.

Scientific speculation on this issue is simply no better than theological understanding.

That is probably largely correct, but somewhat simplified.

Not all "scientists" - in this case astronomers and cosmologists - agree on the 'multiple universe' theory. Whereas some do support the idea - and I have some suspicions about reasoning - many do not. However, many who don't are following the developments, mathematical theories and such to see where it leads.

In the same fashion, Christianity has factions championing - variously - Calvinism vs. Arminianism, KJV vs. 'modern' translations, YEC vs. observed history, transubstantiation, baptism, and the dreaded "Aay-men" vs. "Ahh-men" controversy. So yes, the 'scientific' speculation is no better and no worse than theological understanding. But it may come down to just exactly with whom one speaks in either group.

In fact, I learned the science of parallel universe FIRST. Then I suddenly noticed that the Bible says exactly the same thing right at the first chapter.

That can alter one's perspective. The Bible and natural laws are both God's handiwork, so to speak.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

The mulitverse is more of a hypothesis than anything else still. There isn't really any evidence of it, and personally I don't buy it.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Multiverses refers to the fact that electrons
do not operate in a specific place, but rather
in a cloud of possibilities.
All through the history of science we've found
that the properties of "small" things also apply
to the "larger" things. With this as the basis,
if this is extrapolated to "our" collection of electrons
then each moment creates a seperate universe possibility.
These expand constantly and each creates it's own
possibilities.

Right, that isnt actually a "vertere," or "[universal] transformation." It is a dimensional phase shift.

If you can reach this other "vertere," then there is a phase that transforms your native dimension into a new dimension shifted by a complex operator along a meaningful spacial coordinate.

It isn't a new "collection"/universe. The multiverse only exists as etymological validity - as particles penetrating potential barriers induce phase changes that "vertere," or "turns" into a "bubble" of possibility with at least one spacial dimension not in common with the original coordinate position basis.

In reality, it is just a transformation of a dimension - very much contained in the "known universe."

An example would be a ghost: you may be able to see it, hear it, it has length, width, and height, but it is off by at least one phase transformation function, because they do not interact with matter/pass through solid objects - which requires high potential (near infinite) to do so with a regular solid body. In other words, a "ghost" interacts with matter in most all ways our native dimension does, except (at least) one way in a meaningful spacial dimension.

There isn't really a multiverse... but there are some exciting spacial and oscillating dimensions that mimic a universe.

 

[SkyWriting]

Right, that isnt actually a "vertere," or "[universal] transformation." It is a dimensional phase shift.
There isn't really a multiverse... but there are some exciting spacial and oscillating dimensions that mimic a universe.

Source?

 

[2consider]

Physicists often claim that there are multiverses or parallel universes. Some claim that there are an unimaginably large number of these universes (or even an infinite number).

I'm interested in how Christians should approach the idea of other universes. The idea seems completely incompatible with Christianity.

The Bible clearly describes parallel or alternate universes. Surely you've heard of Heaven and Hell.

 

[SkyWriting]

The Bible clearly describes parallel or alternate universes. Surely you've heard of Heaven and Hell.

Hell is not parallel though.
Hell only exists in the dark, where the light of God does not shine.
Turn on the Light, and the Dark is wiped out.
There is no battle or anything equal.