what do lutherans believe?

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hello, lutherans -

just yesterday, i attended a birthday party for my brother's friend. most of the attenders there (28 people) were lutheran. my brother and his wife are lutheran.

what specifically do lutherans believe?

1. about the bible? canonization? infallibility?
2. about the trinity? literal resurrection? spiritual baptism/indwelling?
3. about salvation? the sinners' prayer? a true christian/church?
4. about the afterlife? heaven/hell? the 2nd coming? end times?

thank you.
 

doulos_tou_kuriou

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hello, lutherans -

just yesterday, i attended a birthday party for my brother's friend. most of the attenders there (28 people) were lutheran. my brother and his wife are lutheran.

what specifically do lutherans believe?

1. about the bible? canonization? infallibility?
2. about the trinity? literal resurrection? spiritual baptism/indwelling?
3. about salvation? the sinners' prayer? a true christian/church?
4. about the afterlife? heaven/hell? the 2nd coming? end times?

thank you.

Perhaps I ought to begin by saying that not all Lutherans are united on everything you are asking. And among them you asked in the forum of what I would say are the more diverse in opinions part (ELCA and other more "liberal" Lutheran bodies). If you ask this to an LCMS or WELS Lutheran for example, you might get a different answer. And it is worth figuring out what Lutheran synod your brother is a part of (although ELCA is the largest, so the odds at least are in your favor that you have come to the right spot).
Let me just give a few thoughts:
1) All Lutherans profess the Bible to be the true and inspired Word of God, in which God speaks to us his words of Law and Gospel, commands and promises. The Lutheran confessions never officially defined the canon beyond the words "Old and New Testament", which makes things a little tricky when speaking officially around the apocrypha. In general though, it is the Protestant canon. I think most Lutherans would recognize that canonization came by a process but that does not illegitimize the nature of the canon itself.
Now if you are talking about canonization in relation to the Catholic practice of declaring someone officially a "saint" that is not a Lutheran practice. All Christians are saints, since the word itself means holy one and our holiness is not by our own good works but by God's grace, mercy, and the work of His Spirit. Also because of the way the term is used biblically to apply to all the believers.
Infallibility might be the most contested word you used. More conservative Lutherans have adopted this, many moderate to liberals have not, and as such the ELCA does not include the word infallible in its official statements on scripture. The reasoning will depend on who you ask. Some because they believe the Bible contains errors, some because they don't want to read it all literally/historically, and others (myself included) because it is a word that was adopted in a debate Lutherans never really ought to have been involved in anyways. Particularly because of our understanding of the role of the preached word and the living word, meaning that scripture is not simply a historically locked word but one that comes to life every time it is applied to a person, that God speaks actively with it. Additionally as a friend of mine once put it, a lot of that has to do with control, who is controlling scripture. And finally, because for over a thousand years Christians did not need the word infallible to believe the Bible. They may have viewed it as such or quite similarly, but the word becomes in my mind and hindrance and a weapon for debates more than a way to talk about the blessed word of God. But churches like the WELS and LCMS would differ on this, and they will point to how the lack of it does open one up to other debates. Which is a fair critique (although I do not think it ultimately prevents it, or its absence guarantees the issues they speak of).
2) Lutherans are very Trinitarian and confess the three ecumenical creeds (Apostles', Nicene, Athanasian).
In general Lutherans believe in a literal resurrection. Our theology certainly does, and I would say most do, but this goes to the infallibility debate issue. And I won't lie, virgin birth and bodily resurrection are denied by some, especially in the ELCA where they use the absence of the word as warrant. I have heard that the ELCA is too ambiguous in its official language to allow for those with such beliefs, I think the more one looks at our statements and such, the harder it is to defend that though. But I know there is not a complete unison on this in my body. I have only met one teacher/preacher who publicly suggested there was not one though.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly by spiritual baptism, some language is used too diversely across Christianity to throw it out and be of one mind on it. I will say Lutherans emphasize actual, physical, water baptism. It is one of our two sacraments. It is a means of grace. Our confessional documents declare it is necessary. And it does a very spiritual thing, promising forgiveness of sins, salvation, and the Holy Spirit. It unites us with Christ and all his benefits, which faith receives. Thus it is a one time event, that is a life-long gift for faith.
3) Salvation is by God alone. Lutherans believe we are totally and utterly lost sinners. Our hearts and will are bent away from God. We cannot by our own power, reason, or strength even choose or come to God. Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection are sufficient. He did it all on the cross. We often talk about it in terms of being justified by faith alone in Christ alone. And this faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Our theology is best understood when not spoken about broadly either (like Calvinist/Arminian debates around limited/unlimited atonement) because salvation and Lutheran theology is very subjective, it is not spoken about in broad strokes but specifically and particularly for you, in the relation of one person proclaiming the message to another.
The problem with the sinner's prayer is it supposes a free will, to choose Jesus and invite him into your heart, to make repentance about moving from vice to virtue. Lutherans understand repentance as the move from vice and virtue to Christ himself totally. And this repentance is the working of God on us, not of our own decision. Law cannot work total repentance, faith is the heart of repentance. Now I will admit that most Lutherans don't know this, because our preachers usually stink at preaching it and teaching it. And many want their will to be free or are too influenced by other theologies to realize that they abandon the Lutheran teaching on free will. Like Calvinists it is totally God's choosing of us, but unlike Calvinists we do not believe in double election, and our election is in the moment, in preaching, in Christ coming to us, not before all time. Thus Christian life is not about determining election, but being elected and believing it.
Lutherans profess that wherever and whenever believers gather around the pure preaching of the Gospel and proper administration of the sacraments, there the true church is. It is not determined by institution, denomination, or polity, but by God's own presence, which comes and is promised in these means. That means these are really important, but it also means that the church itself is very free and universal (that is, across denominational lines) and can pop up at any time. One does not need to be a descendant for example of the historical church to all of the sudden start preaching God's good news. We profess that this church (sometimes referred to as the invisible church or the church universal) will always and must always remain because God has instituted it and he alone keeps it.
4) I'm not sure what you want to know about the afterlife. Basically, to flow into the next we believe there is a heaven and hell, and Christ will come again. When he does, he will preserve those he has called and kept in the new creation, when he brings about the final destruction of the old world and we live in the new Jerusalem. Our end times theology is not rapture theology, it is best understood this way, since the coming of Christ the new has come as Paul says, but the old also remains until Christ's second coming. Thus we as Christians live between the old and the new, completely the old Adam, the old creature, the sinner, completely made new, a creation in Christ, righteous by him, clothed in him, led by his Spirit. One is driven by the law, the other the gospel. Best put, we don't fit well with much of the popular American culture of end times theology.

I know that was a mouthful, but you asked a lot. Hope it helps some. But like I say, it would be worth finding out exactly what synod your brother is a part of. If he is from something like the LCMS, WELS, TAALC, CLC and such I would recommend putting these same questions up in that forum, where the answers will come out of perhaps their tradition. Since they will answer some of these differently.
 
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I know that was a mouthful, but you asked a lot. Hope it helps some. But like I say, it would be worth finding out exactly what synod your brother is a part of. If he is from something like the LCMS, WELS, TAALC, CLC and such I would recommend putting these same questions up in that forum, where the answers will come out of perhaps their tradition. Since they will answer some of these differently.
it is an ELCA, although i don't know what that stands for. they have a female pastor. my brother's in-laws are liberal activists. i can't post links yet until i have 50 posts, but here is the website where they attend: stjamesws dot org
 
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doulos_tou_kuriou

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Well, I can only say so much from a website. The pastor went to LSTC for school, one of the more liberal of the schools (but that does not necessarily mean she is very liberal). Based on where she volunteers you can probably guess service and women's issues are important to her (and that likely is to some extent reflected in her preaching).

But otherwise there is not much I can say. They do ecumenical worship with an Episcopal church midweek, I suppose that speaks some to their relation with other denominations.

Like I said right away though, the ELCA is very diverse, in part because it was assembled by a series of mergers, so there are a lot of different backgrounds among the congregations. So I don't know what more I can say in good faith.
 
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1) All Lutherans profess the Bible to be the true and inspired Word of God, in which God speaks to us his words of Law and Gospel, commands and promises. The Lutheran confessions never officially defined the canon beyond the words "Old and New Testament", which makes things a little tricky when speaking officially around the apocrypha. In general though, it is the Protestant canon. I think most Lutherans would recognize that canonization came by a process but that does not illegitimize the nature of the canon itself.
i mentioned to my brother's wife that i believe that canonization was strictly an act of human government, and that many other texts were illigitimately rejected from the official canon.

Now if you are talking about canonization in relation to the Catholic practice of declaring someone officially a "saint" that is not a Lutheran practice. All Christians are saints, since the word itself means holy one and our holiness is not by our own good works but by God's grace, mercy, and the work of His Spirit. Also because of the way the term is used biblically to apply to all the believers.
my brother's wife referenced that some are 'christians' and some are not, but failed to define what exactly constitutes a 'christian'. for example, she doesn't like mormon christians due to the former practice of pluralistic marriages.

Infallibility might be the most contested word you used. More conservative Lutherans have adopted this, many moderate to liberals have not, and as such the ELCA does not include the word infallible in its official statements on scripture. The reasoning will depend on who you ask. Some because they believe the Bible contains errors, some because they don't want to read it all literally/historically, and others (myself included) because it is a word that was adopted in a debate Lutherans never really ought to have been involved in anyways. Particularly because of our understanding of the role of the preached word and the living word, meaning that scripture is not simply a historically locked word but one that comes to life every time it is applied to a person, that God speaks actively with it. Additionally as a friend of mine once put it, a lot of that has to do with control, who is controlling scripture. And finally, because for over a thousand years Christians did not need the word infallible to believe the Bible. They may have viewed it as such or quite similarly, but the word becomes in my mind and hindrance and a weapon for debates more than a way to talk about the blessed word of God. But churches like the WELS and LCMS would differ on this, and they will point to how the lack of it does open one up to other debates. Which is a fair critique (although I do not think it ultimately prevents it, or its absence guarantees the issues they speak of).
my brother's wife referenced that the bible's mention of 'satan' is allegorical, and that there is not a literal 'satan'. she referenced that 'satan' is merely an allegorical characterization that represents 'evil', and that the bible is not always intentioned to be interpreted literally on certain points.
 
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doulos_tou_kuriou

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i mentioned to my brother's wife that i believe that canonization was strictly an act of human government, and that many other texts were illigitimately rejected from the official canon.

my brother's wife referenced that some are 'christians' and some are not, but failed to define what exactly constitutes a 'christian'. for example, she doesn't like mormon christians due to the former practice of pluralistic marriages.

my brother's wife referenced that the bible's mention of 'satan' is allegorical, and that there is not a literal 'satan'. she referenced that 'satan' is merely an allegorical characterization that represents 'evil', and that the bible is not always intentioned to be interpreted literally on certain points.

Canonization process began long before Christianity was the religion of the empire, and officially was not really locked down by the church until the reformation, so I would have to disagree. If you consider the criteria by which the early churches discussed the canon and rejected many texts, I don't think political is appropriate.

Mormons are obviously difficult, because they are a cult/sect. That is, they have adopted an additional set of scriptures and only to their extent accept the Biblical texts. So when we speak of gathering around the word, the gospel being purely preached and sacraments administered accordingly, that gets very difficult in a place that gathers and interprets according to a different word.
But not altogether lost. I would for example recognize Mormon baptism because it is done according the to biblical formula. Although their understanding of baptism and even the triune God is horribly wrong in my view, God himself is still faithful to his word that wherever that word is uttered and used, there he does what he says.
The whole mormons and many wives thing though, really only applies to some of these smaller mormon sects. Mainstream mormonism, the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, no longer practices polygamy. The practice of continued inspiration according to the church's prophet (another can of worms, smells a lot like "Mormon Pope" to me in terms of wrongful placing of inspirational-doctrinal authority) declared some time ago that polygamy was no longer acceptable.

Like I say, Lutherans in the ELCA engage the text differently, and for different reasons. Also I would note that even the most literal readers or avid defenders of infallability of scripture recognize that some texts were never meant to be taken literal (parables are an example of this), they are just generally more conservative in what ought to be taken literal than say your brother's wife.

I guess I'm curious as to what now? Are you looking for a way to relate to their faith? Are you challenging it? Interested? Turned off? What's going on with these questions you've posed and their answers which you've offered? Is their faith affecting your relationship with them? How are the above issues affecting that relationship? I'm curious what's investing you in this, if I may ask.
 
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I guess I'm curious as to what now? Are you looking for a way to relate to their faith? Are you challenging it? Interested? Turned off? What's going on with these questions you've posed and their answers which you've offered? Is their faith affecting your relationship with them? How are the above issues affecting that relationship? I'm curious what's investing you in this, if I may ask.
five years ago when my mother died, my brother and i had a severe conflict. i had accused my brother of interfering with my mother's medical treatments, which ultimately led to her death. i had also accused him of elder financial abuse regarding my grandmother's finances after $30,000 suddenly went missing under his management, thereby incurring a government investigation of the matter.

my opposition to my brother's behaviors was judged to be insane by my brother's lutheran in-laws. my brother's lutheran father-in-law instructed my senile grandmother to tell the government elder abuse investigator that i was insane.

my brother's lutheran in-laws then attempted to seize financial control over my inheritance by attempting to have me psychiatrically committed on the basis of a false allegation of schizophrenic suicidal tendency in combined testimony. in combined testimony, they accused me before the police of having an illness (schizophrenia) which i have never been diagnosed with notwithstanding psychiatric testing, in hopes of having me judged financially incompetent if potentially declared insane (which never happened).

i have never had suicidal desire nor have i ever made a suicide attempt throughout my entire lifetime. i have never been incarcerated nor psychiatrically hospitalized throughout my entire lifetime. i have never been addicted to illegal substances, nor have i been a smoker or a drinker. my credit score is rated at 760 and i have never been late on any bill in the last ten years. i have had 400 employees in the corporate realm.

they thought that if they could have me psychiatrically committed on an allegation of schizophrenic suicidal tendency, then my brother might potentially be appointed as my legal financial guardian, and that my inheritance rights would therefore be forfeited and go to my lutheran brother and his wife.

inspired by the spirit indwelling her, my brother's lutheran wife has accused me of being a 'dumb animal', quite similar to jesus' biblical references to goats, swine, snakes, wolves and dogs.

they are recently now asking me to join the lutheran church, so i am asking specific questions about lutheran doctrine. they are recently attempting to display grace and tolerance upon my ignorance/incompetence to win me over to liberal lutheranism. i would like to know specifically what lutherans believe.
 
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doulos_tou_kuriou

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It sounds like your family needs grace, mercy, and forgiveness. And I don't mean that willy-nilly or disrespectfully. You and your family certainly have had conflict and there sure seems to be hurt there as well that is lingering. I pray peace and that this time could be one of healing for you.

My final thought is that faith is not about winning people over. It's about sharing,its about handing over the message. Lutherans are not about the powers of persuasion. It's about the Spirit distributing Jesus Christ for you. That is the ultimate work of the Spirit.
I hope the Lutheran church can be a place of grace, healing, and faith for you your family and you.
Pax
 
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It sounds like your family needs grace, mercy, and forgiveness.
from who?

And I don't mean that willy-nilly or disrespectfully. You and your family certainly have had conflict and there sure seems to be hurt there as well that is lingering. I pray peace and that this time could be one of healing for you.
no reconciliation has been attempted by my brother's in-laws.

My final thought is that faith is not about winning people over. It's about sharing,its about handing over the message. Lutherans are not about the powers of persuasion. It's about the Spirit distributing Jesus Christ for you. That is the ultimate work of the Spirit.
the spirit has outstanding allegations against me.

I hope the Lutheran church can be a place of grace, healing, and faith for you your family and you.
Pax
i do not attend the lutheran church.
 
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