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what disqualifies you becoming a salvation army officer

Discussion in 'Cyber Corps - Salvation Army' started by SarenR, May 22, 2012.

  1. SarenR

    SarenR Newbie

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    Hi all,

    My wife is starting to feel the call to become a salvation officer.

    We are new christians so will not be for a few years yet but we both see that in our future.

    However, my wife is currently going through a bankruptcy due tpo debts incurred from a divorce some years ago. Does being divorced or bankrupt disqualify you from being an officer in the salvation army in the UK
     
  2. Peter Hobson

    Peter Hobson Newbie

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    My advice to you would be to speak to your Corps Officer, as that is you first contact when you feel the call.

    The Salvation Army Website may also get you on right path to follow the call

    Hope it helps.
     
  3. Amisk

    Amisk Senior Member

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    You may find officership out of reach because of the divorce and re-marriage in your wife's back ground. In the past it would have barred you from the ministry in all Evangelical Churches, based on Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:31 KJV and later Paul's stated in 1 Timothy 3:4 KJV. Some would say that Paul was speaking of deacons, however anything required of a deacon must also apply to one entering the pulpit.

    I haven't heard that the Army has changed its policy on divorce and remarriage, however even if they have Jesus' word still out strips any Church doctrine.

    Sorry to be so blunt, I know that was not what you wanted to hear but any minister or Christian has to live by the scriptures and that is not always easy.
     
  4. nvrbnunloved

    nvrbnunloved Mrs Andy Broadley

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    Saren, I can only hope that you did indeed speak with your Corps officer rather than take some of the advice offered on here. Divorce and/remarriage are NOT a barrier to officership in our Army. I am both divorced and remarried, and my husband and I were married in our Corps with the full blessing of our Corps Officers and Territorial HQ. Contrary to the opinions, and I stress that they are only that - opinions - of some in this forum, should your wife feel genuinely called to Officership, then that true calling comes from God alone, which "outstrips" anyone here on earth.

    As for the bankruptcy, that itself should not present a problem - the requirement is that an officer candidate should not have serious debts, mainly because the salary of an officer is not normally sufficient to service debts.

    I can answer these questions, as I HAVE discussed them with my Corps Officers, and with the Territorial Recruitment Officer.

    I quote directly from the Salvation Army's own website
    "Jesus taught that divorce is failure (Mark 10:2-12; Matthew 19: 3-9). Salvationists believe, however, that his attitude to those caught up in marital strife would never be anything but loving and compassionate.

    Therefore, The Salvation Army, whilst defending vigorously the ongoing relevance of God's will for men and women in relation to marriage, recognizes the reality that some marriages fail. It is therefore willing, under God, to offer counsel and practical help to couples so affected.

    The Army permits (but does not require) its officers to perform a marriage ceremony for a divorced person, following careful counselling, where it is considered that remarriage could lead to the healing of emotional wounds. Sound doctrine with practical mercy are the hallmarks of the Salvationist's approach to marital and emotional strife."

    Amen to that, and amen to the love & mercy shown by true Christians everywhere. In HIM there is NO condemnation, we are ALL new creations. Hallelujah.
     
  5. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    As always (which is one of the many reasons I married her) I couldn't have put that better. As Laura advised, speak to your officer as neither the financial situation nor the divorce should disqualify the Salvationist from officership. If that had been the case, General Booth would have been very short of officers!!!

    God Bless you both.
     
  6. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    Bumping this thread up a few notches in case Saren comes back in.
     
  7. TrueSBHLove2012

    TrueSBHLove2012 True name... Salvationist

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    The two above me are correct. This Amisk, I believe does not know Army Doctrine, nor Army Rules and Regulations. The calling of God, is most important. The ability to do second. Third and 4th are personal issues that may prevent you from being as efficient, and effective of an Officer as possible right away. Some territories do ask that you make substantial gains on a massive loss before entering. You pay your own way to become an Officer. Just know... That if Gods call is for you to enter the ministry, to not would be a bigger hurt to Him than you worrying over words in His book.
     
  8. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    Thank you:) Couldn't have put it better.
     
  9. Water Walker

    Water Walker Look no wet feet!

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    The question should be not will the Army stop them, but should the Army hold them ...divorce is serious at lease it use to be but it seems we bend rules to often and what is a rule one year may not be the next.
     
  10. Amisk

    Amisk Senior Member

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    I may not know Army doctrine, I have read my Bible enough to know what Christ said about the issue.
     
  11. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    Ultimately, it takes more than the Army having a stance on an issue to decide who is an officer. It takes a genuine calling from the Lord. God will call and use who He chooses to call and use. However, and in whatever capacity He decides. I'm sorry if that messes with your head Amisk, but there you are.

    Come judgement day you will have your chance to tell Him He was wrong :)
     
  12. Amisk

    Amisk Senior Member

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    Do you believe that church doctrine replaces what is in scripture? Do preachers have the right to weed out of the Bible what condemns our life style?

    A sad fact in our present day churches is that we seem to have forgotten which came first, the Bible or church doctrine. That allows us to justify the sin in our midst. The Christian Church needs to get back to the Bible. We need an old time Biblical revival in every denomination and within our own souls.

    Have a good day.
     
  13. Water Walker

    Water Walker Look no wet feet!

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    I wonder if you could clarify what you believe is a 'call' or 'calling'?
     
  14. Water Walker

    Water Walker Look no wet feet!

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    No I do not and this I believe is where the SA runs into trouble especially around communion and baptism.

    Remember the bible is just words and if one's lifestyle is not in line with the scripture the Spirit will point that out to an individual. Now if a preacher knows you issues and uses Sunday preaching to teach you a lesson then that is wrong.

    I agree except we need a new idea on teaching and preaching who we really are in Christ, so people walk around in victory.:clap:
     
  15. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    And before all of that there was God. And God will call whom He chooses to officership. Neither the Bible, nor the church, nor even you my friend, can question His authority to do that and the fact that His decisions will always be the right ones.

    The Lord founded the Army on a bunch of men and women whom you would class as totally unfit for officership.

    Drunks, crooks, thugs, pimps, addicts, prostitutes...you name it, God called them. And you deign to question His right to call someone to officership with financial problems, or who has been through divorce?

    You and the Lord seem at odds on this issue. Personally, I'm on Gods side.

    Have a good day:)
     
  16. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    The OP of this thread asked a question

    "What disqualifies you from becoming a Salvation Army officer?"

    The answer is very simple. One thing and one thing only disqualifies you...and that is NOT having a genuine calling from the Lord.

    If you have a genuine calling from God to serve as a Salvation Army officer, then that is a qualification that no man or woman can have taken from them. Personal circumstances may require that the process takes longer in some cases than others. For example, as has been said already here, Officers Cadets have to fund themselves through training, so a more secure financial grounding may need to be established first. However, if the calling is real, the the Lord will provide that. I know of many officers who will testify to that.

    God calls who He will to serve Him as an officer in the Salvation Army, and anyone who tries to prevent that will answer to Jesus for it on Judgement day. And if you want Scripture for that, just remember what St Paul said. "It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God"

    Thats not the Salvation Army going soft, or liberal, or whatever you want to call it. Thats The Salvation Army...Gods Army...doing what it is supposed to do, and thats being obedient to it's supreme commander in chief.

    If you are not prepared to do that. If you are not prepared to accept that this war will be fought by Gods rules, and not yours, then you will one day have the chance to discuss the matter with the Living God.
     
  17. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    It's worth remembering some of the people God has called and used over the years.

    Moses - a violent murderer
    King David - an adulterous murderer
    St Matthew - a crook and a cheat...the 'banker' of his day
    Mary Magdalene - a prostitute
    St Paul - an accessory to murder.
    St Peter - a man given to acts of violence who was also a coward.


    Thats just to name a few....and the list could go on almost ad infinitum.

    It would be a dreadful mistake to try and tell God who He can and cannot call to be a Salvation Army Officer.
    Anyone who does that either does not read scripture or picks out the bits they like and ignores the bits that don't fit with their spiritual mindset.
     
  18. Amisk

    Amisk Senior Member

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    Your list fits well with the scriptures. No question there. The thing you seem to have missed is that there was repentance for the sins committed and then the sin was forsaken. One can not continue in their sin and thus expect the Lord to accept that as true repentance.

    Matthew had to give up his dishonesty, thus showing his neighbors that he had truly repented. Yes, Christ called him immediately as a disciple, but don’t forget that Christ knew well the human heart of Matthew and thus knew that he was serious about his commitment.

    Mary Magdalene gave up her life of prostitution proving that she was truly complying with God's commands for one claiming to be converted.

    Yes, Paul was an accessory to murder. Still as you read the scriptures he forsook his previous life style when he claimed to come to Christ in order to become a minister of God.

    I have also never met a man who claimed to truly accepted Christ and had much of a testimony if he continued in his old life style of sin. The men on the job might not read their Bible but they know if a man is living it or not.
     
  19. JoshuaCh1v9

    JoshuaCh1v9 Guest

    So lets get this clearly uinderstood. According to you....

    Someone who commits murder, arson, or any other serious crime, but repents...they can become officers.

    Someone who has come out of a marriage, perhaps for reason of abuse, of infidelity, or indeed any number of reasons, and has been burdened with debts as a result...they cannot become officers?

    Are you also saying that God will not forgive someone who is divorced?

    Or someone who has been forced into bankruptcy?

    How about if someone murders their spouse and then repents? is that ok? It wouold seem to fit with your legalistic approach rather nicely.

    Or...try this one....how about a person who is divorced and remarried (to someone else of course). What would they have to do to satisfy your interpretation of not continuing in their old lifestyle of sin? Leave their new souse perhaps? Get divorced from them? Oh hang on...that won't work for you will it?

    All in all I'm very glad that you don't make the rules in Gods Army, or we'd be in a right old pickle. Best left to the canadian who knows what she's doing eh?:)

    Meanwhile, tell me this please. As someone who has been through a divorce, is now happily remarried to someone else (also divorced, and still paying off debts that accrued as a result of my first marriage ending (and I will be for many years yet).....just how do I stay out of hell?

    Indeed, what do I say to my Lord if He calls me to officership? (no sign of that at this point I hasten to add)

    "Better not Lord. Amisk says it's wrong and you are going against scripture by calling me"
     
  20. heirmiles

    heirmiles Rookie

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    I think this is a difficult issue for several reasons. First, for many
    marriage is considered a sacred bond for life between a man and a woman; however, many people do get married who have no idea what "a sacred bond" really means.

    If somebody who was not (or is not) a believer in Jesus,
    and has not completely commited his or her life to Him, and/or has not
    been instructed concerning the magnitude of marriage reflecting God's
    holy marriage of Jesus Christ and His Church and marries outside of the
    knowledge of Christ, does a person's "legal obligation to the world"
    over-rule the new birth in Jesus Christ, if that legal obligation has
    already been annulled according to the legal structure of the world?

    Secondly, Is restitution a requirement for forgiveness? Numbers 5 speaks
    about this in terms of infidelity or suspicion of infidelity. Is the Law
    and the Curse of the Law still effectual according to its letter? The
    Pentateuch is full of requirements regarding restitution in many
    circumstances. In the Old Testament atonement required sacrifice. For
    infidelity, Numbers 5:27 is clear that a woman found guilty was to
    "become a curse among her people". A punishment somewhat akin to those who suffered from leprosy. In Matthew 1 Joseph being a just man did not want to and chose not to put Mary through this process. Jesus however, by His sacrifice removed the curse from the law. He took the law's punishment against us upon Himself on the cross.

    Thirdly, Jesus himself mentioned that anyone who divorces his wife except
    for the commission of Adultery is himself guilty of causing her to commit
    adultery. And in Romans 1 Paul is clear in his list of "alternate
    lifestyles" that sexual immorality (as referred to in verses 26,27)
    was one of the practices of a debased
    mind resulting from a rejection of God (verses 28-32). I'm rather
    surprised that divorce wasn't included in this list, or maybe there was a
    reason why it wasn't? And yet "undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving,
    unforgiving" and "unmerciful" are included in this list. Yet the "real"
    issue is that those who are "knowing the righteous judgment of God, that
    those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the
    same but also approve those who practice them" (verse 32).

    Please remember that Paul is removing all obstacles to the judgment of
    God against sin, remembering that "all have sinned and fall short of the
    glory of God."

    Now consider that when Jesus was confronted by a group of Jewish leaders in John 8 concerning a woman who had been caught in the commission of adultery, first said to them, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Not one of them could stand there as her judge. Those very people who lived in the full standard of the Judaic code. Then Jesus turned to her and said, "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more"! (Cessation of sin was sufficient).

    Now let's put Romans 3:23 in context. "for all have sinned and fall
    short of the glory of God, '24. being justified freely by His grace
    through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, '25. whom God set forth
    as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His
    righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins
    that were previously commited, '26. to demonstrate at the present time
    His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who
    has faith in Jesus."!!!

    If someone has sinned before they came to Christ are we to continue to
    hold that sin against them? Are we going to stand in the way of God's
    righteousness for the sake of upholding our concepts of moral purity? Are
    we going to expect a "babe" in Christ to show all the characteristics of
    a fully matured adult? In fact Jesus told us that we have to come to him
    with the attitude of a small child, believing and trusting him with a
    simple and trusting faith. Are we to "remember the sins of our youth"
    even as the Psalmist prayed, and pleaded to God that He wouldn't?

    What I am saying is that we have all sinned. We are all guilty before
    God. And outside of Christ we would suffer everything we deserve for that
    guilt. BUT, in Christ Jesus we have been forgiven, Jesus paid the full
    and complete penalty for our sin. There is not one person on this planet
    who can say that he or she is without sin, who has not been guilty of
    committing sin.

    Let's be honest, in our own eyes we can point to others' as well as our
    own sins. Yet, God sees us through Jesus' eyes. In "the Law no flesh
    will be justified in His sight" (Romans 3:20), '21. "But now the
    righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by
    the Law and the Prophets, '22. even the righteousness of God, through
    faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe for there is no
    difference; '23. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    '24. being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is
    in Christ Jesus"!!!

    Since we have sinned, and since Christ has forgiven us, have we any right
    to hold anybodies' past actions against them once they have been received into Christ's Kingdom? Is "the name of God (is) blasphemed among the Gentiles because of us (you)? (Romans 2:24), because we "rest on the law" (2:17) and judge others in accordance with the Law, rather than through the eyes of grace?

    Hopefully those who will lead our congregations in service to God will
    not do so because they and others see them as righteous outside of
    Christ, but rather because our Lord Jesus Christ has made them righteous
    before God and they are living in His righteousness, having had the guilt
    and curse of the law that would have been written against them wiped away by the shed blood of our Saviour.

    Yet, I can hear the objection, what about repentance? Do we realize that
    it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4)?

    Many think that repentence is simply turning 180 degrees away from sin. This is so far from the truth. Repentence is turning 100% to Christ Jesus.
    Nothing less will do. We are either in Christ or we are not. God either
    dwells in us or He doesn't. God's righteousness is displayed in His
    faithfulness, His love, His forgiveness, and His mercy. Only people who
    have witnessed this in their lives can testify to its truth. Those who
    haven't will point to sin, those who have will point to Christ.

    We ask our ministers to teach us Jesus Christ, to display Christ in their
    lives, and to lead us closer to God.

    I was involved with the local Salvation Army for several years (and yes, in Canada) until we were "downsized", and lost our Majors. I never once doubted their integrity or their faith. They helped me through some difficult times and I learned much from them. Personally I never asked and honestly didn't care what their lives were like before they came to Christ, what I saw was Jesus, and to me that is all that mattered.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
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