what are the two great powerful lights in Gen 1:16?

two great lights

  • sun and moon

    Votes: 17 85.0%
  • sun and stars

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • sun and something unknown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • all stars possibly a sun from another galaxy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • the north and south poles

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20

pinacled

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Isaiah 60:19
A Shepherd and staff at the well to weave a garment from sack cloth. Sheer truth from the wool and a new garment is formed from on high into fine linen.. A cradle for a new born in the hands of a Mother clothed in the Sun.
May the bride of my heart walk upon the moon till the time be fulfilled.
 
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mercy1061

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Psalm 90King James Version (KJV)
90 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

5 Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

6 In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.

7 For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.

8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.

9 For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath.

12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

13 Return, O Lord, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy servants.

14 O satisfy us early with thy mercy; that we may rejoice and be glad all our days.

15 Make us glad according to the days wherein thou hast afflicted us, and the years wherein we have seen evil.

16 Let thy work appear unto thy servants, and thy glory unto their children.

17 And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.
As the same moon orbits the same earth, yet it is called a "new moon" when it has completed it's journey around the earth. Jacob had 12 sons, the 12 tribes of Israel, "12 new moons"; "12 dark moons"; which represents 12 months. There are two powerful lights in the firmament of heaven that bear witness to the "new moon", even the number of stars, the number of the descendents of Abraham. At the north and south poles; there are 6 months of uninterrupted daylight; 6 months of uninterrupted darkness, the sun rises and sun sets once a year. 1 Day and 1 night = one year. How do those who live on the north and south poles keep Sabbath after 6 years?
 
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mercy1061

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A Shepherd and staff at the well to weave a garment from sack cloth. Sheer truth from the wool and a new garment is formed from on high into fine linen.. A cradle for a new born in the hands of a Mother clothed in the Sun.
May the bride of my heart walk upon the moon till the time be fulfilled.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things we hope for.................

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Abraham never possessed the promise land, but he did live in the land of Canaan. Faith is having the SUBSTANCE of things you hope for, although not possessing what you actually hoped for. After you possess what you hope for, it is no longer faith. Abraham walked on top of the promise land, ate the fruits that this promise land produced, he ate the fruits of his labor in the promise land, yes he even build wells of living water in the land of Canaan. Abraham walked by faith while he walked in the land of Canaan, hoping that one day that his descendents would possess the land.

Shall we discover these two powerful lights located in the firmament of heaven? We must first discover the SUBSTANCE of these two powerful lights, we may look into the sky like Abraham and count the stars in the firmament of heaven to number the descendents of Abraham. We may also travel to the north and south poles where "daylight" is very powerful; it lasts for 6 months at the north pole, then we may travel to the south pole to avoid the great period of darkness at the north pole, and enjoy another uninterrupted 6 months of powerful "daylight" at the south pole. This way we would witness only day, never night!

Rev 22:5
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
 
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Dave-W

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At the north and south poles; there are 6 months of uninterrupted daylight; 6 months of uninterrupted darkness, the sun rises and sun sets once a year. 1 Day and 1 night = one year. How do those who live on the north and south poles keep Sabbath after 6 years?
That only happens EXACTLY at the poles - and no one lives there. But at the North pole, the sun sets on Sept 21, with the top of it sinking below the horizon 4 days later. Then you have about 3 weeks of twilight. In the spring, you have 3-4 weeks of dawn with the sun fully up about March 21.

But if you move off from the pole, there is a short time of actual days which increase the closer you get to the arctic/antarctic circles. Basically the whole arctic region is a transition between the total light/darkness at the pole to the 24 hour cycle just past the circles.

But the question has come up with me for a sf story I am thinking of writing - how do you track Shabbat and Holy days in an orbital space station - or in a station out too far to see the sun as anything but another star.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ETA: As usual there are a variety of opinions to choose from. Take your pick:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-Jews-l...rmine-the-beginning-and-ending-of-the-Sabbath
 
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mercy1061

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That only happens EXACTLY at the poles - and no one lives there. But at the North pole, the sun sets on Sept 21, with the top of it sinking below the horizon 4 days later. Then you have about 3 weeks of twilight. In the spring, you have 3-4 weeks of dawn with the sun fully up about March 21. In the northern cities of Canada, you may have 50 days of daylight.

But if you move off from the pole, there is a short time of actual days which increase the closer you get to the arctic/antarctic circles. Basically the whole arctic region is a transition between the total light/darkness at the pole to the 24 hour cycle just past the circles.

But the question has come up with me for a sf story I am thinking of writing - how do you track Shabbat and Holy days in an orbital space station - or in a station out too far to see the sun as anything but another star.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ETA: As usual there are a variety of opinions to choose from. Take your pick:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-Jews-l...rmine-the-beginning-and-ending-of-the-Sabbath
What about at the article circle, 82 days of uninterrupted daylight, 60 days uninterrupted darkness. Of course in Alaska, the balance between day and night is much different. You may have only 5 hours of daylight, during some parts of the year. Keeping Shabbat would be much different.
 
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Laureate

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Better yet, if it was not the Sun that illuminated the first three days, then what light was it?

Or, What light produces the phenomena called day?

14 votes to my one, you guys are hilarious!
 
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AbbaLove

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It is one thing to over think something, and it is another to ignore what is being said ... .
According to the Word it isn't necessary to overthink the obvious when the SUN and MOON become the means for keeping God's calendar. Without the light of the MOON how would the Israelites know the beginning of the next month? Common sense supported with scripture doesn't necessiate overthinking.

Genesis 1:14
“Let there be lights in the heaven to divide the day from the night, And let them be for SIGNS, and for SEASONS …“

Joel 2:10

“The earth shall quake, the heavens shall tremble. The SUN and the MOON shall be darkened…”

Joel 2:30-31
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord come.”


Mark 13:24

“But in those days after the tribulation, the SUN shall be darkened and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT

Acts 2:20-21
"The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and notable Day of the Lord come. And then, whoever calls on the name of Adonai will be saved.”
____________________

So, we can agree that the "LIGHTS" also refers to the stars. However, those that hunt at night (e.g. racoons) will tell you that the MOON (not the stars) affects animal behavior. Plus it's easier to spot a racoon hiding in a tree under a full moon.

"Hunters have noted that activity amongst all animals is greater when the moon is full and that this one form of hunting by moon phase -- hunting during periods of full moon -- can yield excellent results. In other words, if you're aware of the phases of the moon, you're in a better position to anticipatre the peak of animal activity. Fishermen will also tell you that the phases of the moon (not the stars) have an affect on fishing activity even during daylght hours." http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phase_fishing.phtml



 
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mercy1061

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According to the Word it isn't necessary to overthink the obvious when the SUN and MOON become the means for keeping God's calendar. Without the light of the MOON how would the Israelites know the beginning of the next month? Common sense supported with scripture doesn't necessiate overthinking.

Genesis 1:14
“Let there be lights in the heaven to divide the day from the night, And let them be for SIGNS, and for SEASONS …“

Joel 2:10

“The earth shall quake, the heavens shall tremble. The SUN and the MOON shall be darkened…”

Joel 2:30-31
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord come.”


Mark 13:24

“But in those days after the tribulation, the SUN shall be darkened and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT

Acts 2:20-21
"The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and notable Day of the Lord come. And then, whoever calls on the name of Adonai will be saved.”
____________________

So, we can agree that the "LIGHTS" also refers to the stars. However, those that hunt at night (e.g. racoons) will tell you that the MOON (not the stars) affects animal behavior. Plus it's easier to spot a racoon hiding in a tree under a full moon.

"Hunters have noted that activity amongst all animals is greater when the moon is full and that this one form of hunting by moon phase -- hunting during periods of full moon -- can yield excellent results. In other words, if you're aware of the phases of the moon, you're in a better position to anticipatre the peak of animal activity. Fishermen will also tell you that the phases of the moon (not the stars) have an affect on fishing activity even during daylght hours." http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phase_fishing.phtml


Do you understand the new moon festival? The moon is celebrated, when the moon reflects no light, dark moon = new month. The moon is not a source of light!
 
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AbbaLove

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Do you understand the new moon festival? The moon is celebrated, when the moon reflects no light, dark moon = new month. The moon is not a source of light!
Have you been listening to Nova and National Geographic's evolutionary theology and other attempts to debunk the Bible ?

So do you too doubt the Word of the LORD

Mark 13:24
CJB ~ "In those days, after that trouble, the sun will grow dark, the MOON will STOP SHINNING"
ESV ~ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"

KJV ~ "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT"
NIV ~ “But in those days, following that distress,“‘the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"

Can you find even one translation that supports National Geographics theology? By the way the brain trust at NG doesn't believe the Bible is an authorative primary source of absolute knowledge.

Are you familiar with Scouts using mirrors to send light messages
 
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dysert

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I can't believe this has taken 71 replies so far. One of the rules of exegesis is to understand what the text meant to the original audience. To the ancients, it appeared that the sun and moon were two great lights. (They still appear that way today.) We know that the moon does not generate its own light but is a reflector of the sun. Nevertheless, it serves the purpose of a light, as it did when it was created. That's not to say that these great lights *always* are "on". The new moon seems to pose a problem for some, but then there is the total solar eclipse which would pose a similar problem for those who insist the lights must *always* be on.

As for the bodies being in the same level as the birds, that's silly. The Bible mentions three "heavens". The first is where the birds are; the second is outer space; the third is the spiritual world. The sun and moon are clearly in the second heaven.

I honestly don't see why anyone would have a problem denoting the sun and moon as the lights created on Day Four.
 
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mercy1061

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Have you been listening to Nova and National Geographic's evolutionary theology and other attempts to debunk the Bible ?

So do you too doubt the Word of the LORD

Mark 13:24
CJB ~ "In those days, after that trouble, the sun will grow dark, the MOON will STOP SHINNING"
ESV ~ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"

KJV ~ "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT"
NIV ~ “But in those days, following that distress,“‘the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"

Can you find even one translation that supports National Geographics theology? By the way the brain trust at NG doesn't believe the Bible is an authorative primary source of absolute knowledge.

Are you familiar with Scouts using mirrors to send light messages
Will you distort the scriptures to perpetuate unnecessary confusion? The moon is not a source of light, like the sun, the sun is listed first in all the scriptures you posted in fact the moon does not reflect light because the sun is darkened. The moon is mentioned only after and in conjunction with the sun. Why doesn't the moon shine her powerful and glorious light after the sun is darkened?
 
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mercy1061

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I can't believe this has taken 71 replies so far. One of the rules of exegesis is to understand what the text meant to the original audience. To the ancients, it appeared that the sun and moon were two great lights. (They still appear that way today.) We know that the moon does not generate its own light but is a reflector of the sun. Nevertheless, it serves the purpose of a light, as it did when it was created. That's not to say that these great lights *always* are "on". The new moon seems to pose a problem for some, but then there is the total solar eclipse which would pose a similar problem for those who insist the lights must *always* be on.

As for the bodies being in the same level as the birds, that's silly. The Bible mentions three "heavens". The first is where the birds are; the second is outer space; the third is the spiritual world. The sun and moon are clearly in the second heaven.

I honestly don't see why anyone would have a problem denoting the sun and moon as the lights created on Day Four.
The ancients celebrated when the moon was darkened, it represented a new month. How did the ancients know this with no knowledge of the solar system? These things can be observed in the firmament of heaven. How did the ancients know how to count years, with no knowledge how the earth orbit the sun? I think the ancients knew how to observe the stars in the firmament of heaven, the sun is a star, we know he created the stars also.
 
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AbbaLove

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I can't believe this has taken 71 replies so far. One of the rules of exegesis is to understand what the text meant to the original audience. To the ancients, it appeared that the sun and moon were two great lights. (They still appear that way today.) We know that the moon does not generate its own light but is a reflector of the sun. Nevertheless, it serves the purpose of a light, as it did when it was created. That's not to say that these great lights *always* are "on". The new moon seems to pose a problem for some, but then there is the total solar eclipse which would pose a similar problem for those who insist the lights must *always* be on.

As for the bodies being in the same level as the birds, that's silly. The Bible mentions three "heavens". The first is where the birds are; the second is outer space; the third is the spiritual world. The sun and moon are clearly in the second heaven.

I honestly don't see why anyone would have a problem denoting the sun and moon as the lights created on Day Four.
Truer words were never spoken. Here's my 'Like" and hope you receive many more. Mercy actually agrees with you. Me thinks he's just being a stickler for grammatical exegesis. Apparently upset that Mark 13:24 doesn't read as follows ...
Mark 13:24
CJB ~ "In those days, after that trouble, the sun will grow dark, the MOON will stop shinning it's reflected light"
ESV ~ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not reflect its LIGHT"

KJV ~ "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the MOON shall not reflect her LIGHT"
NIV ~ “But in those days, following that distress,“‘the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not reflect its LIGHT"

Even a 5th grader can figure out that if the SUN is darkened then the MOON will not give off light.
 
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mercy1061

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Truer words were never spoken. Here's my 'Like" and hope you receive many more. Mercy actually agrees with you. Me thinks he's just being a stickler for grammatical exegesis. Apparently upset that Mark 13:24 doesn't read as follows ...
Mark 13:24
CJB ~ "In those days, after that trouble, the sun will grow dark, the MOON will stop shinning it's reflected light"
ESV ~ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not reflect its LIGHT"

KJV ~ "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the MOON shall not reflect her LIGHT"
NIV ~ “But in those days, following that distress,“‘the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not reflect its LIGHT"


Even a 5th grader can figure out that if the SUN is darkened then the MOON will not give off light.
A fifth grader would also understand that the moon is not a star or powerful light but a planetary satellite that orbits the earth.
 
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AbbaLove

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I think the ancients knew how to observe the stars in the firmament of heaven, the sun is a star, we know He created the stars also.
You are correct! Take for example the wise men that followed the "star" to Bethlehem. And of course we can all agree that the ancients referred to what we now call the sun as a star ;)

Would this translation be closer to your liking or do you object to the word "her" ?

Mark 13:24 ASV
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give (reflect) her light,
 
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mercy1061

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Better yet, if it was not the Sun that illuminated the first three days, then what light was it?

Or, What light produces the phenomena called day?

14 votes to my one, you guys are hilarious!
This LIGHT that existed the first three days was divorced from darkness. What fellowship does LIGHT have with darkness? When the LIGHT switch is turned on, the darkness in the room flees. Yet this LIGHT that was good, the first LIGHT, the LIGHT from day one, was married then separated from darkness. This LIGHT was viewed as being good, prior to its divorce from darkness. I agree the two powerful lights are in the firmament of heaven as you have enLIGHTened me to this fact, possibly the north and south pole . I voted with you in the poll, you are not alone (all one).
 
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mercy1061

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You are correct! Take for example the wise men that followed the "star" to Bethlehem. And of course we can all agree that the ancients referred to what we now call the sun as a star ;)

Would this translation be closer to your liking or do you object to the word "her" ?

Mark 13:24 ASV
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give (reflect) her light,
Since the sun is a star, it can not be considered one of the two powerful lights observed in the firmament of heaven.
 
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AbbaLove

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I agree the two powerful lights are in the firmament of heaven as you have enLIGHTened me to this fact, possibly the north and south pole . I voted with you in the poll, you are not alone (all one).
Of the twelve American astronauts that have walked on the moon ... Buzz, Neil, Pete, Alan, Edgar, Alan, James, David, John, Charles, Eugene and Harrison not one of them ever mentioned anything about an intense light of the north and south pole. Actually Mercy seems to be contradicting himself referring to the north and south pole as "two powerful lights" when he knows all too well that the light coming from the north and south poles of the earth are reflected sunlight.

is

Better yet, if it was not the Sun that illuminated the first three days, then what light was it? Or, What light produces the phenomena called day?
If you are referring to a 24 hour day it very well would've could've been the AFTERGLOW following the first 3 days after the BIG BANG. In due time the sun was brighter than the afterglow that we know as daylight approximately a 12 hours a day.
 
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