What advice would you give 'old maids'

BFine

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Good topic book...

I've worked as a caregiver privately and professionally for a
couple of decades (combined.)
Having children doesn't mean they will look after their aging
parents appropriately-- I've seen far too many aged parents
abandoned to the state and the grown children grab up the
parent's assets and go do as they please...I've seen this
happen WAY TOO MUCH over the years.

Having children at any age... if one is well-off they can have a surrogate
deliver their child/children...I know of folks doing that. Also a certain
former big name fashion model and her husband paid for a surrogate
to have a baby for them...as did a well-know TV newsperson.

Raising babies when one is over 50 years old or more is becoming
commonplace in wealthier circles... like that
college professor who underwent that in her sixties, she had the best
of care and assistances on hand...she delivered a baby girl several
years ago...the woman never married but had longed for a child
of her own, now she has one. She drew up all these legal documents
just in case she didn't make it, made provisions for the child etc.
Interesting what folks will do to have it their way.

I like what that rich Duke person did, she legally adopted an employee
and made her heir to her fortune...One of the Cannon(?) family
in NC did the same thing... the nurse became heir to the patriarch's
fortune, there was a big court fight but the nurse won and got the
money.
 
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Goodbook

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Hmm. Its disturbing that many children will not look after their parents when they are old.they just want to do their own thing.
Didnt Jesus have this issue with his mum? He had brothers and sisters, but he left his mother Mary in the care of his best friend John.

I know a couple, the husband came from a large family right. Like 8 siblings. His parents got old, his dad died and not one of them wanted to spend time or look after their mother when she was elderly. He and his wife paid for her granny flat and for her to live close by his family as she got old, the rest of his siblings would not lift a finger, claiming they were too busy, had children, etc. this couple had three children as well, but they did the right thing. Not that they were any richer than his siblings, some of them apparently did really well, but they wouldnt give a cent back to their own mother or even see her. Maybe once a year or something like that.

I dont know if she was a difficult person to live with, i know when people get ederly often they have things hard to deal with, degenerative illnesses, dementia, etc but isnt it better to have family care for you then pay for strangers?
 
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camperdown9

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I dont know if she was a difficult person to live with, i know when people get ederly often they have things hard to deal with, degenerative illnesses, dementia, etc but isnt it better to have family care for you then pay for strangers?

No, I don't think that it is.

Firstly people are living longer and often the children of elderly parents are themselves in their 70's before their mother or farther needs care.

Secondly families often don't live close by. My parents are 400 miles away and my in-laws are 100 miles away. I see my parents once or twice a year. I see my in-laws maybe 4 times a year.

Thirdly many families aren't close in the way that they once were. I speak to my parents on the phone twice a week, we speak to my in-laws maybe once a month. Divorce and re marriage adds to that.

Fourthly the way we live has changed, at least for many people. In the 1950's it was common for farther to go of to work each day, mother to stay at home and cook, clean and look after the children. So if granny needed to come and live with them that was fairly easy as the daughter or daughter in-laws was at home. Today it takes both mum and dad to work just to pay the mortgage and the bills. So for one person to give up work is not aways possible. A friend who is in her late 50's gave up work a few months ago to look after her mother. (I should point out that I think this is an amazing thing to do!) Her mum died two months after my friend gave up work. Now she is struggling to find employment.

I think children who chose to look after their sick or infirm parents are amazing people. However is it fair to ask children to give up large chunks of their lives, or jobs or even relationships with their own kids or spouse to look after parents?

Just my view.
 
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Goodbook

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No, its not fair..but its also not nice to abandon your parents to the state.
It is something i think people struggle with.
My friend who like bfine was a caregiver said it was really sad that some elderly patients at the rest home had absolutely nobody to visit them. Either their children were horribly heartless or their parents were espcially cruel to them that they didnt want to visit. In both cases maybe they werent christians?
 
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Goodbook

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Some of the conditions in rest homes are pitiful. And not only that, the old folk are reallynlonely, even though they are all together, they miss their own home and independence. Some are really stubborn and dont want to move, even though it may be dangerous for them.

Also is it fair to ask foreigners to give up THEIR homes and children to look after someone whos a complete stranger to them? I think of all the maids coming from phillipines and other foreign countries. I think of all the black mammies who've given their lives to their white masters and mistresses back in the days of slavery.
 
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camperdown9

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No, its not fair..but its also not nice to abandon your parents to the state.
My friend who like bfine was a caregiver said it was really sad that some elderly patients at the rest home had absolutely nobody to visit them.

I guess there are times when adult children have no or little contact with their parents. My previous next door neighbour used to lock herself out of her house. Frequently she would do so when she was in her night things. The first time it happened she came to my door and explained what she had done and to ask for help. I wasn't really sure what to do, so I asked her if she had her son's telephone number. Then she started to tell me how much she hated her daughter in law and how bad she (herself) had treated her husband. She couldn't find her son's number so I went and made her a cup of coffee and called the police. The first thing the police said was "we don't deal with this". I explained that she was elderly and confused and what was I meant to do. In the end they said they would send someone to the house. This was at 3pm, the police arrived just before 7pm. When the police officer arrived she wanted to tell him all about her family, he didn't want to hear this and searched her handbag to find some i.d. From this is was able to check their own records and found a number for her son. He called the ladies son and his response was "what do you want me to do about it. Before hanging up". In the end the police just called a locksmith and she had the cash to pay for this.

Next time it happened I didn't call the police I just called a locksmith directly. However she didn't have the money to pay so I ended up paying. This happened maybe 4 or 5 times, sometimes she had cash to pay sometimes not. Next someone fitted a keyless entry system, but she couldn't remember the pin and took a screwdriver to it. When the locksmith fitted the next lock he gave me a spare key so that when she locked herself out I could let her in. I called social services a few times and she was invested but they considered her fit enough to look after herself. They also said that she was difficult to deal with.

Then one Monday morning a couple came to my front door and explained that they were the son and daughter-in-law. They said that she had died and that they had told her that if she didn't go into residential care then something like this would happen. I suspect that she fell down the stairs or something. I don't know what the relationship was between this lady and her son was, maybe she had been a pretty unpleasant person, who knows.

In England (other parts of the UK have different laws) the state uses the value of your home to pay for your care. Either they give you a loan secured on the house or you can sell your home and pay for your own care. Once this money is gone the state start to pay. Its slightly more complicated than that in that we have something called national insurance. When you start work in addition to income tax we pay national insurance. The idea is that national insurance pays for our medical treatment, it gives us a basic (very low) pension, it pay the unemployed or people who are unable to work some money. However when this was set up most people didn't live long enough to make it to retirement. In 1911 5% of our population made it to retirement now its 16% and expected to be 20% in a few years time. So the state paying for care is becoming difficult as the figures don't add up. So what can be done? Well you could increase the retirement age and they have done that so less people get a pension, this has been very unpopular. And/or you increase the amount paid towards National Insurance, will this will be just as unpopular. (A one bedroomed apartment in central London and not in a particularly smart part of town now costs around £500,000 (about USD800,000 or NZD1183283) So it takes two people on really good salaries to be able to afford a box in town. Imagine what its like when you have school aged children. There is an argument that people who are over 65 in the UK have been the financially most successful as they bought their homes for very little money and because of rising property prices and inflation have made a small fortune. So why should they not use their own money to pay for care.

Yes I agree it is very unkind not to go visit your elderly parents who are in care, but that very different from giving up your job/spouse/family to bath and help your mother off the toilet.

Also is it fair to ask foreigners to give up THEIR homes and children to look after someone whos a complete stranger to them? I think of all the maids coming from phillipines and other foreign countries.

They are not, they move overseas because of money. In the UK the majority of our emigrants are from eastern Europe or the Indian sub-continent. They work in all sorts of jobs but particularly on farms, restaurants, care homes etc. They don't get paid less than a person born in the UK would get paid. However they are prepared to rent a room in a house and share it with another person, they are prepared to take a 2 hour bus journey to get to work or even work two jobs. a few months ago on TV they interview some people from Poland who had moved to the UK and were picking vegetables on a farm. The interviewer asked the question do they think they are taking jobs from British people? The answer was no, the farm can't get enough staff and our youth don't want to do it. Everyone wants and expected everything now! No one wants secondhand furniture or a car thats more than 3 years old.

Alex
 
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Goodbook

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If you looked after your own parents you would not have this problem....the problem is parents kicking their children out the house in the first place. The parents make it so difficult for them to stay, they dont set up a proper family income for them that they need to leave. So its not surprising the children dont want to go back to their parents...theyve been alienated, they kept all the money they earned for themselves. Or they become rebellious. Why should they pay for their parents? Well. Jesus had things to say about that in the gospels.
 
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camperdown9

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They are giving up their homeland to work in another country which will never really be home to them.

Don't agree 20 years ago I moved countries. My home is very much were I live now. When I go back to the country that I was born in I feel like a foreigner as its changed so much.
 
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camperdown9

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UK is very class ridden.

Not true at all.
How do you define class?
If you base this on land and titles then yes there are a few people who have family money around but not many.
If you base it on occupation then your doctor, lawyer or account is more likely to be the child of a first generation emigrant than the child of another doctor, lawyer etc.

There is no shame in owning a secondhand car. However the 19 year old who has a job is just as likely to buy a brand new car via some sort of hire purchase agreement. Than save money towards a second hand car. In the UK cars that are over 3 years old are required to have a yearly safety and emissions test. This effects their value a lot.
 
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camperdown9

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I find it weird that people in the UK cant do honest jobs anymore like work on farms and expect foreigners to do it. Its like that here too, all the brits just look down on manual labour, caregiving roles, etc.

Parents raise their children to believe that they have the ability to do anything. Most kids don't aspire to be farmers or healthcare providers. They want to be doctors, lawyers, bio-chemists, footballers, models etc. Schools are no longer permitted to wright (at least in jr school) negative comments on report cards. I have a couple of friends who are teachers and they say that a lot of parents today believe that little Jonny can do no wrong and is super smart. The school must be failing him. In addition because mummy and daddy both need to work full time, kids spend a lot of time after school or in the holidays in daycare. A daycare provider is never going to send a kid in their care out to cut the grass or wash the car. So many children never have to do this. So is it surprising they don't want to do manual work? In addition many kids are just give iPhone, laptops, TV, DVD etc. They don't have to work for it, its just given to them as thats how society seams to suggest you treat your children. (I should point out that not all kids are raised in this way)

To get residency in NZ unless they are on a working holiday visa or married an NZ citizen they will of needed to of either had a few million dollars in the bank. To of bought a business employing 2 NZ citizens or to of had a fairly high level of education. So its maybe not surprising that Brits living there don't want to do manual labour.
 
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Goodbook

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Wonder if you talking about parents in general, yes I would agree, but christian parents wouldnt raise children that way.

They raise children to believe GOD can do anything.

And that all we are to do, our MOST important role is to love Him, cos he first loved us.
Everything else is secondary.
 
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Goodbook

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Heaps of immigrants come here, do manual labour, cos they want to live here and make a home. Only the brits tend to snub their noses. Lots of people with phds and high qualifications in own country, come and do cleaning and driving taxis. Or there are secretsries. As theres not enough jobs to go round.

Its not just cos of money, they want a better life most of all. And often money they earn will be sent home to families back there. People in war torn countries..seek asylum in nz. Many brits come cos uk is too cold and damp and overcrowded.
 
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Goodbook

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Not true at all.
How do you define class?
If you base this on land and titles then yes there are a few people who have family money around but not many.
If you base it on occupation then your doctor, lawyer or account is more likely to be the child of a first generation emigrant than the child of another doctor, lawyer etc.

There is no shame in owning a secondhand car. However the 19 year old who has a job is just as likely to buy a brand new car via some sort of hire purchase agreement. Than save money towards a second hand car. In the UK cars that are over 3 years old are required to have a yearly safety and emissions test. This effects their value a lot.
Im basing it on the former.

Your occupation does not define who you are, cos it can change.
 
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Goodbook

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I suppose the unbelieving world does that cos they dont know God.
Those that believe know that when it comes to the crunch, they would do anything for tehir parents, if they were dying etc, needed help to get on the toilet. One of the church ladies, who was dying, her daughter gave up a lot of time to care for her in her own home. Out of love.

She had three children of her own to look after, but she motored down practically every day to spend time with her mum. Her mum wanted to pay someone else to do it, but both her hsuband and daughter wanted to look after her.
 
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