Well fare

[Blackwater Babe]

Rabbi Chayim of Sanz had this to say about fraudulent charity collectors: "The merit of charity is so great that I am happy to give to 100 beggars even if only one might actually be needy. Some people, however, act as if they are exempt from giving charity to 100 beggars in the event that one might be a fraud."
Darkai Chayim (1962),p. 137

 

[motherprayer]

Rabbi Chayim of Sanz had this to say about fraudulent charity collectors: "The merit of charity is so great that I am happy to give to 100 beggars even if only one might actually be needy. Some people, however, act as if they are exempt from giving charity to 100 beggars in the event that one might be a fraud."
Darkai Chayim (1962),p. 137

This describes the mentality of all those who say we need to cut welfare because of the few who abuse it.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

This describes the mentality of all those who say we need to cut welfare because of the few who abuse it.

Pretty much why I posted it. Saw it in another thread, seemed relevent here.

 

[motherprayer]

Pretty much why I posted it. Saw it in another thread, seemed relevent here.

Yea it is. What is crazy is that nearly every complaint I have heard regarding welfare has already been addressed BY the DPW. They want a work requirement, got it. They want a lifetime limit, got it. They want benefits that can only be spent on certain things, got it.

Any further reduction will only cause families to fall into worse poverty. What needs to be focused on is creating opportunities for these families (including mine) to be able to survive self-sufficiently within the limitations that caused them to be on welfare.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

Drug testing costs money. When Florida instituted drug testing for welfare recipients only 108 out of 4088 tested were positive for drugs. So, in the end it cost the state MORE money than they saved.

Florida's welfare drug tests cost more money than state saves, data shows - Politics Wires - MiamiHerald.com

 

[motherprayer]

Drug testing costs money. When Florida instituted drug testing for welfare recipients only 108 out of 4088 tested were positive for drugs. So, in the end it cost the state MORE money than they saved.

Florida's welfare drug tests cost more money than state saves, data shows - Politics Wires - MiamiHerald.com

Yea, we covered that about 300 posts ago lol

 

[morningstar2651]

They already have a food stamps card though. It is called an Access Card. I was under the impression you were talking about a separate ID.

You must be from Arizona. It's not access, it's AHCCCS. It stands for Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System.

 

[motherprayer]

You must be from Arizona. It's not access, it's AHCCCS. It stands for Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System.

PA = Access

 

[motherprayer]

See below:

 

[dogs4thewin]

They may HAVE a work requirement life time limit ECT. If they do not enforce it or if people are in poverty and are still forced to have assistance (the generational poor) then it does not do its purpose.

 

[motherprayer]

They may HAVE a work requirement life time limit ECT. If they do not enforce it or if people are in poverty and are still forced to have assistance (the generational poor) then it does not do its purpose.

Exactly!

They do enforce it though. People cannot sit at home and collect welfare benefits, not even if they are disabled, after August 1 of 2012.

So this is the realm in which people need to think regarding change. How to offer improvements to the system that will bring people ABOVE the poverty bracket. Disallowing more children won't change the income the parents make, they will still be in poverty. This is why changing welfare alone won't fix the problem.

Even once people are off of cash, they still are faced with shelter, utility, and food costs that are too high for them to meet on their income. Do you have a solution for this?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Exactly!

They do enforce it though. People cannot sit at home and collect welfare benefits, not even if they are disabled, after August 1 of 2012.

So this is the realm in which people need to think regarding change. How to offer improvements to the system that will bring people ABOVE the poverty bracket. Disallowing more children won't change the income the parents make, they will still be in poverty. This is why changing welfare alone won't fix the problem.

Even once people are off of cash, they still are faced with shelter, utility, and food costs that are too high for them to meet on their income. Do you have a solution for this?

Well if they can't afford it after five years what happens that is the bad part of a lifetime limit.

 

[motherprayer]

Well if they can't afford it after five years what happens that is the bad part of a lifetime limit.

The 5 year limit is for cash, not food stamps. Food stamps have no lifetime limit, I apologize for not making that clear.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The 5 year limit is for cash, not food stamps. Food stamps have no lifetime limit, I apologize for not making that clear.

Oh OK I thought you meant that everything had a lifetime limit, except of course for disability and regular social sectrity are there any limits in terms of how the cash may be used?

 

[motherprayer]

Oh OK I thought you meant that everything had a lifetime limit, except of course for disability and regular social sectrity are there any limits in terms of how the cash may be used?

There aren't, but it is such a minimal amount that it makes limiting what it can be spent on kind of a nonissue. A family of three in Pa can receive roughly 413 per month in cash. That is IT. That means if their rent is $800, they don't even have enough to cover that. And a person can only make $1000 a month to even qualify for cash benefits, which would be reduced by any income the person has for any reason.

This is one of the biggest incentives for a person to get off welfare. I remember when I was in the program, the first day they broke it down for us how even working at McDonald's would "pay" us more per hour than what we were currently receiving. We were also required to spend 35 hours a week at the program, and they even tightened up the rules for any activity spent outside of the building two years ago.

Seriously, it isn't pleasant. Cash welfare is a nonissue, they've worked out as many kinks as can be worked out with it. The real issue is the sheer amount of people on food stamps because their rent is more than 2 - and in some cases 3 - paychecks for them. The real issue is how to get these families self-sufficient in a society where cost of living requires a salary of $50,000 or more, when many of these families make closer to $20,000.

 

[dogs4thewin]

There aren't, but it is such a minimal amount that it makes limiting what it can be spent on kind of a nonissue. A family of three in Pa can receive roughly 413 per month in cash. That is IT. That means if their rent is $800, they don't even have enough to cover that. And a person can only make $1000 a month to even qualify for cash benefits, which would be reduced by any income the person has for any reason.

This is one of the biggest incentives for a person to get off welfare. I remember when I was in the program, the first day they broke it down for us how even working at McDonald's would "pay" us more per hour than what we were currently receiving. We were also required to spend 35 hours a week at the program, and they even tightened up the rules for any activity spent outside of the building two years ago.

Seriously, it isn't pleasant. Cash welfare is a nonissue, they've worked out as many kinks as can be worked out with it. The real issue is the sheer amount of people on food stamps because their rent is more than 2 - and in some cases 3 - paychecks for them. The real issue is how to get these families self-sufficient in a society where cost of living requires a salary of $50,000 or more, when many of these families make closer to $20,000.

Maybe I am crazy but how can the cost of living be 50k a year and is that gross or net? Now I will say this my father grosses more than 50k which disqualified for MANY of the scholarships offered by the government that is a little crazy I mean I know it is not a tiny amount but it is like we make too much to get much of the government assistance like the pall grant but too little with NO assistance. However, between what we DO get from the government, a state scholarship called HOPE for Georgia residents private scholarships and school aid we are left with half give or take of the bill (it IS a private school so it costs more) but then between my parents' income and SSI so far I am left with no loans. I do not quite get what is so special about GROSSING 50k that that is the cut-off point I mean we aren't poor but 50k or even 60 or 70k is by NO means rich and by no means is it enough to get a private education or for that matter a public higher education of high quality without assistance be it loans, grants, OR scholarships. Any ideas what is so special about 50K and grossing it? Keep in mind some bills DO go away WITHOUT losing the service.

 

[motherprayer]

Maybe I am crazy but how can the cost of living be 50k a year and is that gross or net? Now I will say this my father grosses more than 50k which disqualified for MANY of the scholarships offered by the government that is a little crazy I mean I know it is not a tiny amount but it is like we make too much to get much of the government assistance like the pall grant but too little with NO assistance. However, between what we DO get from the government, a state scholarship called HOPE for Georgia residents private scholarships and school aid we are left with half give or take of the bill (it IS a private school so it costs more) but then between my parents' income and SSI so far I am left with no loans. I do not quite get what is so special about GROSSING 50k that that is the cut-off point I mean we aren't poor but 50k or even 60 or 70k is by NO means rich and by no means is it enough to get a private education or for that matter a public higher education of high quality without assistance be it loans, grants, OR scholarships. Any ideas what is so special about 50K and grossing it? Keep in mind some bills DO go away WITHOUT losing the service.

It is gross.
Let's do some calculations. Average market rate rent where I live for a two bedroom is $1000. So for a familiy with only one child, or two children of the same gender, that is $12,000 off the top.

An average family of three, let's say, spends $275 per month on food. My family spends more like $400, but we participate in a meal program for our church, so some of that money goes to that. So that is $3000 a year.

Utilities change month through month, but let's say, if a person is paying for gas and electric, they would pay $70 monthly during the summer, and $175 per month during the winter. So to average it out, that's about $122 per month. That is $1464 a year.

Phone service. Assuming a person has one of the new $50 per month plans, that would be $600 a year.

Then we have daycare costs. If a person doesn't qualify for Child Care Subsidy or are stuck on the waiting list, they pay on average $350 per month PER child. So that is $4200 a year.

Transportation costs. I'm gonna lowball this one, because I take the bus. I pay $108 for my transpass, and then another $60 monthly for my older daughter, because she doesn't get on free anymore. Keep in mind, however, that a person with a car would may a lot more than this. That is $2016 per year.

Laundry. We go to the laundrymat twice a month, and pay $20 each time. That is $480 per year.

So, not counting school clothes, diapers, and all other miscellaneous necessities, let's see where we are at now.

Housing: $12,000
Food: $3,000
Utilities: $1,464
Phone: $600
Daycare: $4,200
Transport: $2,016
Laundry: $480

Total: $23,760
This number is a low resemblance of the average amount a family of four who receives no government assistance has to pay out, regardless of their income.
This is before clothes, which need to be bought for children who are still growing sometimes twice a year. This is before shoes, which sometimes are needed more than twice a year. This is before school supplies, diapers, toiletries, and doesn't even include utilities that families sometimes have to pay that I didn't mention, like water, trash and sewage. Does this give you any insight into how hard it is to make it financially? I really hope it does.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It is gross.
Let's do some calculations. Average market rate rent where I live for a two bedroom is $1000. So for a familiy with only one child, or two children of the same gender, that is $12,000 off the top.

An average family of three, let's say, spends $275 per month on food. My family spends more like $400, but we participate in a meal program for our church, so some of that money goes to that. So that is $3000 a year.

Utilities change month through month, but let's say, if a person is paying for gas and electric, they would pay $70 monthly during the summer, and $175 per month during the winter. So to average it out, that's about $122 per month. That is $1464 a year.

Phone service. Assuming a person has one of the new $50 per month plans, that would be $600 a year.

Then we have daycare costs. If a person doesn't qualify for Child Care Subsidy or are stuck on the waiting list, they pay on average $350 per month PER child. So that is $4200 a year.

Transportation costs. I'm gonna lowball this one, because I take the bus. I pay $108 for my transpass, and then another $60 monthly for my older daughter, because she doesn't get on free anymore. Keep in mind, however, that a person with a car would may a lot more than this. That is $2016 per year.

Laundry. We go to the laundrymat twice a month, and pay $20 each time. That is $480 per year.

So, not counting school clothes, diapers, and all other miscellaneous necessities, let's see where we are at now.

Housing: $12,000
Food: $3,000
Utilities: $1,464
Phone: $600
Daycare: $4,200
Transport: $2,016
Laundry: $480

Total: $23,760
This number is a low resemblance of the average amount a family of four who receives no government assistance has to pay out, regardless of their income.
This is before clothes, which need to be bought for children who are still growing sometimes twice a year. This is before shoes, which sometimes are needed more than twice a year. This is before school supplies, diapers, toiletries, and doesn't even include utilities that families sometimes have to pay that I didn't mention, like water, trash and sewage. Does this give you any insight into how hard it is to make it financially? I really hope it does.

a little bit. It seems more than I thought, but of course some bills go away. What kind of food cost that much is it fast food the canned the fresh or the kind that uses NO pest control ( which I KNOW that cost more) I also happen to know I have no idea what it is now but used to cost 400 dollars just to kill a cow. likeat one of the houses.

 

[motherprayer]

a little bit. It seems more than I thought, but of course some bills go away. What kind of food cost that much is it fast food the canned the fresh or the kind that uses NO pest control ( which I KNOW that cost more) I also happen to know I have no idea what it is now but used to cost 400 dollars just to kill a cow. likeat one of the houses.

You can't buy fst food with food stamps. We buy fresh meats, at the cheapest place around, and our meats alone cost about $150. We buy snacks for my daughter's school, which cost about $25. The rest is just, well, food. Fruits, vegetables, some prepared foods, but I don't like the taste and my husband can't take the sodium, so we only really buy them for times when we have to feed the girls quickly. Lunch for me for work, it all adds up. I'm usually shocked at how fast it went when we run out.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You can't buy fst food with food stamps. We buy fresh meats, at the cheapest place around, and our meats alone cost about $150. We buy snacks for my daughter's school, which cost about $25. The rest is just, well, food. Fruits, vegetables, some prepared foods, but I don't like the taste and my husband can't take the sodium, so we only really buy them for times when we have to feed the girls quickly. Lunch for me for work, it all adds up. I'm usually shocked at how fast it went when we run out.

because like we go to the store around here, but many people grow their own food in large part I have shelled (taken the husks off peas) for eight hours before. Some here even raise their own meat, as well now that does cost more but if they choose to they can keep the whole thing so it may even be about the same or cheaper. Those who do not raise their own food ( like my family) wish they would. In most cases they COULD they have enough land. Most in my area either own their own house flat out or are paying it off Once you do so it is just property taxes no house payments. In terms of transportion while we have no public transit (other than the school buses) you can pay off several 100 in that cost when you pay off the car. We have a washing machine and a dish washer but they only cost when they are running less power you use the cheaper the bill. In terms of school, if anything now we are paying for MY private education which I am helping with and scholarships as well and my sister a junior in high school getting ready to pay for her AP tests SAT and ACT. She plans to go to UGA which between HOPE and private scholarships the church others she may get will likely cost next to nothing. (particularly if she goes to a community college first, which will allow her to avoid the dorms when she DOES get there meaning no room and board. Water people around here have a well there is no city water to be on. ( although mom handles city water at her job in the county seat, but everyone in this particular part of the county has no city water to be on. We DO have trash pickup (which is private so not in with taxes or anything and people may choose to go to the landfill themselves. I am not saying my family is rich. I am not saying we are not on a tight budget the medical bills as a result of father's cancer do not help that ( though they too will go away). What I am saying is the cost of living depends based on a TON of things not the least of which is how much people can do for themselves, raise their own food when you have older children by default some of those costs go down ( things last longer) Getting stuff paid off. There are things that can and do lower people's cost of living.