We really need to pay close attention to James!

[ZacharyB]

Hey, looks like this is James’ month in the spotlight.
(If all the proofs vs. OSAS were posted at once, the system would crash.)

James 1:21-22
“Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness
(from their old lives of sin), and receive with meekness the implanted word,
which is able to save your souls.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”
But, Lord, some people think they are justified and saved when they receive the Holy Spirit.

James 2:24
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”

James 5:19-20
“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,
and someone turns him back,
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
Now, let’s see … does the Lord kill the brethren who wander from the Truth?
No, don’t think so … never seen nor heard of that.
Oh, my, could it be that we’re talking here about eternal death (once again)?

Yes, it’s the same old story …
We must remain in the faith until death to finally receive eternal life
… because salvation is a life-long process.

Remember what James had previously said in James 1:21-22 ...
Lay aside the sins from your old life, and humbly received the word,
which is able to save your souls, and don't be deceived by
being hearers only ... be doers also!

Yes, James was writing to Jewish believers whose salvation was in doubt.

 

[sdowney717]

21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.


25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

These verses are about being blessed by God with a reward. Notice it says he will be blessed in what he is doing right now at this time of his life.
Even this part of saving their souls is in regard to saving their minds. How many crazy folk there are today, who have lost their minds (souls).
There exists a difference between the body, the soul and the spirit of a man. Having the word of God implanting itself in your mind is a great consolation and comfort against the evil that is always trying to gain a foothold into your mind.

'Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee for he trusts in thee', comes to my mind.

v26 also describes true religion which is what men practice regarding good works to others.
the implanted word into your soul will save your souls from evil things of this life.
Philippians 4:8New King James Version (NKJV)
Meditate on These Things
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things arejust, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

 

[sdowney717]

1 Thessalonians 5:23New King James Version (NKJV)
Blessing and Admonition
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If soul was the same as spirit of a man, then why would God's Holy Spirit inspired word make this distinction???

 

[ZacharyB]

Oh, 'tis not necessary to search out udder verses
... we can just concentrate on James (or try to).

The best of what James has to offer is an old fav of mine ...
and should be an old fav of everyone who loves Jesus, but alas 'tis not:

James 1:12-16
"Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren."

Please note:
Those who love Jesus will overcome sinning, and thus be approved by God.

Yes, I know, I may need to prove once again that "the crown of life" IS eternal life!
So, any offers (of requiring proof)?

Meanwhile, how much overcoming of sin is required to finally
be approved unto eternal life ... Oh, how about a whole life-time?
Which is what approx. 10 other verses say about ...
enduring 'til the end with one's faith being required to receive eternal life.

 

[EmSw]

Oh, 'tis not necessary to search out udder verses
... we can just concentrate on James (or try to).

The best of what James has to offer is an old fav of mine ...
and should be an old fav of everyone who loves Jesus, but alas 'tis not:

James 1:12-16
"Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren."

Please note:
Those who love Jesus will overcome sinning, and thus be approved by God.

Yes, I know, I may need to prove once again that "the crown of life" IS eternal life!
So, any offers (of requiring proof)?

Meanwhile, how much overcoming of sin is required to finally
be approved unto eternal life ... Oh, how about a whole life-time?
Which is what approx. 10 other verses say about ...
enduring 'til the end with one's faith being required to receive eternal life.

God has promised the crown of life to those who love Him.
Who are those who love Him? Jesus Himself answered this in John -

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall beloved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This promise (the crown of life) is those who keep His commandments...period!

 

[sdowney717]

Well all things work to the good of those that LOVE God, who are the called according to His purposes.
Also, we love because HE FIRST loved us.
So for the regenerated Christian believer, they will Love God. Nowhere in scripture does a saved God hater exist. We are transformed from loving darkness to loving the light, and loving the truth. And if we fall short, that will burn up at the judgement seat of Christ, but the spirit will still be saved.
1 Cor 3.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The loss will be the loss of some reward, maybe they will just squeak through. Peter says the righteous are scarcely saved.

1 John 4:7New King James Version (NKJV)
Knowing God Through Love
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

 

[EmSw]

Well all things work to the good of those that LOVE God, who are the called according to His purposes.
Also, we love because HE FIRST loved us.
So for the regenerated Christian believer, they will Love God. Nowhere in scripture does a saved God hater exist. We are transformed from loving darkness to loving the light, and loving the truth. And if we fall short, that will burn up at the judgement seat of Christ, but the spirit will still be saved. 1 Cor 3.

1 John 4:7New King James Version (NKJV)
Knowing God Through Love
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

All things work together to the good of those who love God, that is, keep His commandments!

 

[sdowney717]

Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We should all be diligent in our walk with Jesus to make our calling and election sure. The goal being to serve God well in life so that we will have an abundant entrance into the kingdom, the resurrection age there will be rewards from God for our good works.
BUT, if we fall short of that doing bad things, the implication here is that entrance wont be so pleasant, it will be meagerly maybe, just barely scarcely saved, yet still saved but as through fire. with only the foundation stone of Christ left in our life and everything we built up will be destroyed.

Paul tells us we build with gold, silver, precious stones upon the foundation ROCK, those would be the good works He prepared beforehand for us to do. OR we build with awful things, works of our own imagination apart from the Spirit, those are the wood hay stubble that will burn up in the fire at the judgement.

1 Corinthians 3

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Yet they are still saved, since the Spirit indwells the believer. The work of salvation God wrought in Christ for the believer is an eternal work and is based on what Christ did on the cross. Paul makes the point that those who defile the temple God will destroy. That is for those who cause the believer to sin, well woe to that man!, you get the idea in Matt 18.

6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

 

[EmSw]

We should all be diligent in our walk with Jesus to make our calling and election sure. The goal being to serve God well in life so that we will have an abundant entrance into the kingdom, the resurrection age there will be rewards from God for our good works.
BUT, if we fall short of that doing bad things, the implication here is that entrance wont be so pleasant, it will be meagerly maybe, just barely scarcely saved, yet still saved but as through fire. with only the foundation stone of Christ left in our life and everything we built up will be destroyed.

According to Jesus, the reward will be life for those who do good.

As far as those who do 'bad things' or evil, they will come forth to the resurrection of damnation, not barely saved.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[ZacharyB]

Peter says the righteous are scarcely saved.

Yes, dat's the whole point, but you don't see it because you have been deceived.
The righteous (those who maintain their righteousness) are scarcely saved.
<< Duz we need to post again the 10 verses which teach this to us? >>
The unrighteous are not saved (scarcely or otherwise).

I see more than 100 verses that warn people against ... being content
grace-only believers who are sinning their way into heaven (or so they think).

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, dat's the whole point, but you don't see it because you have been deceived.
The righteous (those who maintain their righteousness) are scarcely saved.
<< Duz we need to post again the 10 verses which teach this to us? >>
The unrighteous are not saved (scarcely or otherwise).

I see more than 100 verses that warn people against ... being content
grace-only believers who are sinning their way into heaven (or so they think).

Point is they are still saved, not lost. That is because believers possess the righteousness of Christ.
Their sins are forgiven for His name's sake.

Your view is balancing the good deeds against the bad ones on a scale to see which sides wins, which is paganism.

 

[ZacharyB]

That is because believers possess the righteousness of Christ. Their sins are forgiven for His name's sake. Your view is balancing the good deeds against the bad ones on a scale to see which sides wins, which is paganism.

Is this also paganism? ...
The approx. 10 verses which teach:
Believers need to practice righteousness
to continue to be righteous in God's eyes!

 

[sdowney717]

Is this also paganism? ...
The approx. 10 verses which teach:
Believers need to practice righteousness
to continue to be righteous in God's eyes!

Col 2
Not Legalism but Christ
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Notice the Holy Spirit teaches we are circumcised by Himself, this would be the old stony heart He has taken out of us, the old hardness of heart is gone, replaced by a soft moldable heart that can respond to Him. You know that all those in Christ are new creations, so they have no more that body of the sins of the flesh against them, they are alive in the spirit, no longer dead in their flesh.

All this agrees with Romans 8

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the bodyis dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[ZacharyB]

Qvestion for everyone ...

IF it's A-OK for believers to continue sinning whilst OSAS is true,
why are there more than 100 verses written to the churches,
which warn and threaten believers in those churches:
-- sin leads to eternal death
-- salvation can be lost
-- eternal death can be gained
-- entrance into the kingdom of God can be blocked
-- entrance into the New Jersusalem can be blocked
etc.

 

[sdowney717]

Qvestion for everyone ...

IF it's A-OK for believers to continue sinning whilst OSAS is true,
why are there more than 100 verses written to the churches,
which warn and threaten believers in those churches:
-- sin leads to eternal death
-- salvation can be lost
-- eternal death can be gained
-- entrance into the kingdom of God can be blocked
-- entrance into the New Jersusalem can be blocked
etc.

The body still commits sins as Paul says here in Romans 10
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

There is no sinless perfection EXCEPT for Christ who was and is perfection. 'The spirits of just men made perfect' is the covenant we have come to be a part of.
First part, was the LAW v18 to 21
Second part is the glorious company, v22 to 24
What is taught is 'you have come', those who are a part of the New Covenant, have this right now not future, for them this is their inheritance eternal life, right now. In order to inherit, someone has to die, Christ died that we would have eternal life.
The Glorious Company
18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.”21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

[cuja1]

Hey, looks like this is James’ month in the spotlight.
(If all the proofs vs. OSAS were posted at once, the system would crash.)

James 1:21-22
“Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness
(from their old lives of sin), and receive with meekness the implanted word,
which is able to save your souls.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”
But, Lord, some people think they are justified and saved when they receive the Holy Spirit.

James 2:24
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”

James 5:19-20
“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth,
and someone turns him back,
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
Now, let’s see … does the Lord kill the brethren who wander from the Truth?
No, don’t think so … never seen nor heard of that.
Oh, my, could it be that we’re talking here about eternal death (once again)?

Yes, it’s the same old story …
We must remain in the faith until death to finally receive eternal life
… because salvation is a life-long process.

Remember what James had previously said in James 1:21-22 ...
Lay aside the sins from your old life, and humbly received the word,
which is able to save your souls, and don't be deceived by
being hearers only ... be doers also!

Yes, James was writing to Jewish believers whose salvation was in doubt.

I think you make good points. It seems like what you post back up your claims pretty well. It is true that no verses say that a person can lose their salvation once saved, which backs up the OSAS position. However, you have shown quite well what a person that will not go to heaven looks like, and I think everyone should heed these warnings.

 

[ZacharyB]

IF it's A-OK for believers to continue sinning whilst OSAS is true,
why are there more than 100 verses written to the churches,
which warn and threaten believers in those churches?

Seems like 'tis necessary to repeat my qvestion!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm a-gonna have to dig up
some of the more obvious verses about losing eternal life.
BTW, der are some.

 

[brotherjerry]

Qvestion for everyone ...

IF it's A-OK for believers to continue sinning whilst OSAS is true,
why are there more than 100 verses written to the churches,
which warn and threaten believers in those churches:
-- sin leads to eternal death
-- salvation can be lost
-- eternal death can be gained
-- entrance into the kingdom of God can be blocked
-- entrance into the New Jersusalem can be blocked
etc.

No need to go digging up verses Zach...you already had a thread about that, ad nauseam.

But the notion that you think OSAS believes that it is "A-OK for believer to continue sinning" is a false argument. Will a believer sin...yes everyone does...even Paul talked about his own struggle with sin. (Romans 7). But proponents of eternal security typically believe that a person who is saved are free from the bondage of sin and their life will reflect one that attempts to become as perfect as Christ. Matthew 7:20 let's us know that we will be recognized to others by our fruit. So if someone professed salvation but is still a drunkard, wife beater, rapist, mass murder, etc, then more than likely they they were not saved in the first place. It is not for us to truly know as only God knows the heart of man.

 

[cuja1]

No need to go digging up verses Zach...you already had a thread about that, ad nauseam.

But the notion that you think OSAS believes that it is "A-OK for believer to continue sinning" is a false argument. Will a believer sin...yes everyone does...even Paul talked about his own struggle with sin. (Romans 7). But proponents of eternal security typically believe that a person who is saved are free from the bondage of sin and their life will reflect one that attempts to become as perfect as Christ. Matthew 7:20 let's us know that we will be recognized to others by our fruit. So if someone professed salvation but is still a drunkard, wife beater, rapist, mass murder, etc, then more than likely they they were not saved in the first place. It is not for us to truly know as only God knows the heart of man.

Well said, I don't see how anyone could disagree with OSAS based on that line of reasoning.

 

[ZacharyB]

I don't see how anyone could disagree with OSAS ...

Today's American churches are absolutely filled with people
who are involved with deliberate pre-planned sin!

And you're telling me they are going to heaven?
Or, they never initially received the Holy Spirit?
Ridiculous.
They are believers who have departed from the faith
... and have fallen from grace!
There is no one in heaven with unrepented-of sin.