We have to trust Jesus as Lord to be saved

[charles at doctrineprimer]

God always comes first to the sinner as a conqueror before He comes as a Comforter.

He conquerors our rebellion and then comes and comforts their broken heart. He comes as Lord before He comes as Comforter. If He hasn't conquerored you He hasn't saved you.

I am not certain what verses of Scripture you are basing that doctrine on. I believe a man who realizes he is sinner against God almighty, would humble himself and ask the Lord for forgiveness, and those who realize the extent of one's own personal depravity, would be the more thankful.

Also, knowing that Christ bought and paid for us with His own shed blood, automatically instills in us a knowledge of our new found position as a servant of Christ and no longer a servant of sin.

 

[JLR1300]

God always comes first to the sinner as a conqueror before He comes as a Comforter.

He conquerors our rebellion and then comes and comforts their broken heart. He comes as Lord before He comes as Comforter. If He hasn't conquerored you He hasn't saved you.

All of the religions of the world except true Christianity have one thing in common... they all teach that you have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD in order to become right with God. True Christianity is totally unique in that it teaches that we come to Christ just as we are, and trust that what He did on the cross saves us and nothing we do. Then God puts the Holy Spirit in us and we start producing the fruits of the Spirit... which are goodness and self-control and love for God etc. So with Christianity first we are justified then we start being good and doing good.

Lordship salvation is so popular because it is simply another worldly religion which teaches that we have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD before we can be be sure that God accepts us. It says that first God regenerates us... (that makes us BE GOOD) then we choose to follow the Lord in submission and obedience...( we make a godly choice... which, obviously, making godly choices is DOING GOOD) So we have to be good and do good and only then can we trust that Christ saves us.

This is actually just a really subtle way to teach the same legalistic religion that the other religions of the world all teach. Be good and do good and then you can be sure (trust and have faith) that God accepts you.

With real Christianity we are given faith by God and we believe and trust that Jesus' blood automatically saves us... so we are then justified. We are justified by faith alone. We are still ungodly when that happens. Paul says that "to the one who does not work but believes on Him who justifies THE UNGODLY (not the regenerate and morally submissive) his faith is credited to him as righteousness"

So God gives us faith and justifies us while we are still ungodly and haven't done any moral works whatsoever. Only then does the Spirit regenerate us and enter us and produce good works (moral choices)

When you say that he conquers our rebellion first and later he comforts us ....you are saying that first we become obedient to Him in our hearts but are not yet comforted because we do not yet trust that His blood saved us personally from God's wrath.

So according to you a person can make the godly choice to be obedient to Christ and follow all His commandments and ways but has no comfort because he doesn't trust that the blood of Jesus covers his sin. (If he did trust that the blood of Christ covers his sin he would have comfort) So since he doesn't have faith in the blood of Christ he is unsaved

So here we have a lost unbeliever who is attempting to obey God's will. That is nothing but a moralist who thinks he is a Christian!!!!!

So Lordship salvation is not salvation at all... it is really just a stealth moralism which mascarades as Christianity. It says ... be good, do good and then you can be comforted by believing you are saved.

 

[twin1954]

All of the religions of the world except true Christianity have one thing in common... they all teach that you have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD in order to become right with God. True Christianity is totally unique in that it teaches that we come to Christ just as we are and trust that what He did on the cross saves us and nothing we do. Then God puts the Holy Spirit in us and we start producing the fruits of the Spirit... which are goodness and self-control and love for God etc. So with Christianity first we are justified then we start being good and doing good.

Lordship salvation is so popular because it is simply another worldly religion which teaches that we have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD before we can be be sure that God accepts us. It says that first God regenerates us... (that makes us BE GOOD) then we choose to follow the Lord in submission and obedience...( we make a godly choice... which, obviously, making godly choices is DOING GOOD) So we have to be good and do good and only then can we trust that Christ saves us.

This is actually just a really subtle way to teach the same legalistic religion that the other religions of the world all teach. Be good and do good and then you can be sure (trust and have faith) that God accepts you.

With real Christianity we are given faith by God and thus we believe and trust that Jesus' blood automatically saves us... so we are then justified. We are justified by faith alone. We are still ungodly when that happens. Paul says that "to the one who does not work but believes on Him who justifies THE UNGODLY (not the regenerate and morally submissive) his faith is credited to him as righteousness"

So God gives us faith and justifies us while we are still ungodly and haven't done any moral works whatsoever. Only then does the Spirit regenerate us and enter us and produce good works (moral choices)

When you say that he conquers our rebellion first and later he comforts us ....you are saying that first we become obedient to Him in our hearts but are not yet comforted because we do not yet trust that His blood saved us personally from God's wrath.

So according to you a person can make the godly choice to be obedient to Christ and follow all His commandments and ways but has no comfort because he doesn't trust that the blood of Jesus covers his sin. (If he did trust that the blood of Christ covers his sin he would have comfort) So since he doesn't have faith in the blood of Christ he is unsaved

So here we have a lost unbeliever who is attempting to obey God's will. That is nothing but a moralist who thinks he is a Christian!!!!!

So Lordship salvation is not salvation at all... it is really just a stealth moralism which mascarades as Christianity. It says ... be good, do good and then you can be comforted by believing you are saved.

I believe that you have misinterpreted my meaning. When I say that God conquers the sinner I mean that He makes him to know his rebellion. He causes the sinner to know that he is lost . It is true that many times the sinner then runs to Sinai for help but finds that Sinai only continues to condemn him. When God conquers the sinner He fences him in to faith in Christ alone for all his hope before God. Gad makes Himself known as God the Righteous Judge, the King of all Creation and the Sovereign ruler in whose hands we are. When He does that all hope in self and service is made to be hopelessness and then He comes and speaks peace to the lost sinner showing him that salvation is a Person not a thing.

You are correct that Lordship salvation makes the Gospel to be repentance and service instead of simple faith in Christ. I have said many times, here on this forum, that it is a subtle legalism.

God breaks the heart before He heals it. A heart that isn't broken doesn't need healing. Christ didn't come to save the good and righteous people He came to save sinners. If the Lord ever puts me in the way of a broken hearted sinner I have Good News for him. But the one who is not a sinner needs no Good News.

Rolf Barnhard once said, back in the fifties when easy believism was at its most rampant, that we have far too many saved people. What we need to do is get some folks lost.

 

[JLR1300]

Yes I think I better understand your meaning now.

 

[StephanieSomer]

All of the religions of the world except true Christianity have one thing in common... they all teach that you have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD in order to become right with God. True Christianity is totally unique in that it teaches that we come to Christ just as we are, and trust that what He did on the cross saves us and nothing we do. Then God puts the Holy Spirit in us and we start producing the fruits of the Spirit... which are goodness and self-control and love for God etc. So with Christianity first we are justified then we start being good and doing good.

Lordship salvation is so popular because it is simply another worldly religion which teaches that we have to BE GOOD and DO GOOD before we can be be sure that God accepts us. It says that first God regenerates us... (that makes us BE GOOD) then we choose to follow the Lord in submission and obedience...( we make a godly choice... which, obviously, making godly choices is DOING GOOD) So we have to be good and do good and only then can we trust that Christ saves us.

This is actually just a really subtle way to teach the same legalistic religion that the other religions of the world all teach. Be good and do good and then you can be sure (trust and have faith) that God accepts you.

With real Christianity we are given faith by God and we believe and trust that Jesus' blood automatically saves us... so we are then justified. We are justified by faith alone. We are still ungodly when that happens. Paul says that "to the one who does not work but believes on Him who justifies THE UNGODLY (not the regenerate and morally submissive) his faith is credited to him as righteousness"

So God gives us faith and justifies us while we are still ungodly and haven't done any moral works whatsoever. Only then does the Spirit regenerate us and enter us and produce good works (moral choices)

When you say that he conquers our rebellion first and later he comforts us ....you are saying that first we become obedient to Him in our hearts but are not yet comforted because we do not yet trust that His blood saved us personally from God's wrath.

So according to you a person can make the godly choice to be obedient to Christ and follow all His commandments and ways but has no comfort because he doesn't trust that the blood of Jesus covers his sin. (If he did trust that the blood of Christ covers his sin he would have comfort) So since he doesn't have faith in the blood of Christ he is unsaved

So here we have a lost unbeliever who is attempting to obey God's will. That is nothing but a moralist who thinks he is a Christian!!!!!

So Lordship salvation is not salvation at all... it is really just a stealth moralism which mascarades as Christianity. It says ... be good, do good and then you can be comforted by believing you are saved.

 

[StephanieSomer]

In another thread, I once posted a simple analogy that tells the story pretty well.

An apple tree is not an apple tree because it bears apples. It bears apples because it is an apple tree. It can not bear any fruit other than apples. And, it offers no effort to bear apples. It does so because it is the nature of apple trees to bear apples. Nothing one can do to the tree will enable it to produce anything other than apples.

If you relate apples to sin, and oranges to righteousness, the whole scenario makes a great deal of sense.

God wants oranges. He detests apples. We are totally incapable of producing oranges, no matter how hard we try. We may be able to produce something that others might interpret as oranges, but they are still apples and worthless to God.

God comes along and makes a promise. He says, "I will put a new nature within you, changing your tree from an apple to an orange, and enable you to cease bearing apples and begin bearing oranges, which I love."

As long as we remain in full faith in His promise to create His new nature in us, we will remain bearing oranges and will find victory over apple-bearing. Whenever we get full of ourselves and begin to claim "I can bear oranges of my own accord", we will bear only apples.

Bearing righteousness requires no effort since God has promised to change our nature. With a righteous nature, we bear righteous fruit BY NATURE, not effort. If effort is being expended, it is a sure sign that we are walking in our own power. And walking in our own power WILL fail to produce righteousness. The only "effort" required is faith.

Many places in Scripture make a similar statement to 1 John 5:4, which says,

"This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith."

You will find no Scripture making note of effort playing any part in victory. Only faith.

 

[JLR1300]

Thank you Stephanie... have a nice day.