We are not a conservative forum or a liberal forum. Just Catholic.

[AvilaSurfer]

Nobody should use Faith to be a bully. There is better ways to evangelize and be open and truthful about what the church actually teaches.

Um, yeah. There are people who should pay attention to that.

 

[pdudgeon]

He said that when the reporter asked him about it. So he could have meant that the media is too obsessed with it.

yep that's what he ment, that it was the media who were obsessing over those subjects at the time of the question.
What he wanted to do was to expand the topics of conversation to cover more ground,
rather than to get stuck in those two ruts and ignore the rest.
those two topics were the 'hot buttons' of the day back then.

 

[Rhamiel]

I think I should bow out of this thread before I say something that offends someone and inadvertently push them away from Christ and His Church by my own foolish example

I am sorry if I have offended any of you

the Church is big enough for Liberals and Conservatives
but it is not big enough for Heretics
so no matter what our political leaning, we should seek to know Christ more deeply, to love our neighbor, and to preach the truth

again, I am sorry if I offended any of you

 

[tadoflamb]

he is right that we should not obsess over abortion and homosexuality

you think vocal conservatives do more harm then good on this topic? I agree, we have to do better
like I said, we can talk about better ways to explain things, we should not be harsh or harmful to people
but please do not take "who am I to judge" and pretend that is the only thing Pope Francis has ever said this topic
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

I never said we should speculate on peoples souls, but it has always been Catholic teaching that "admonish the sinner" is an act of mercy

sorry if I seem argumentative

Don't worry about it, Rhamiel, I've known you for a long time and I know who you are. It's nice actually chatting with you for a change.

I know the secular world has taken that remark by Pope Francis and has run with it, but as a Catholic the Holy Father's words only confirm what I already had a sense of. And prior to his becoming pope, I'd already taken a jaundiced eye toward politicians who purport to be pro-life.

I'll come out of the closet now and confess to attending my gay nieces same sex union. I didn't want to go, but I opted to mostly because I didn't want to be called a bigot, but also I knew it would be impossible to explain to her and she would never understand not to mention how awkward it would be for my wife, her aunt. I was terribly uncomfortable at the event and in the end the relationship dissolved not long after. All this to say, admonishing the sinner wouldn't have worked out too well in this for instance.

My other niece got married as well. Though it was to a male, it was both of their second marriages. While this one was awkward for me as well, I don't think it's my place to admonishing them.

I've got other real life examples. Like my mom, married for the fourth time, sacristan with her husband at their liberal Catholic parish, how do think that conversation should go?

I just don't want to run around wagging fingers telling everyone what they're doing wrong. That's what Calvinist's do.

 

[WarriorAngel]

^^^ This is my only motivation.

Treat others as u want treated.
I'd hope for Heaven - but would need help to know...if i didnt know.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think I should bow out of this thread before I say something that offends someone and inadvertently push them away from Christ and His Church by my own foolish example

I am sorry if I have offended any of you

the Church is big enough for Liberals and Conservatives
but it is not big enough for Heretics
so no matter what our political leaning, we should seek to know Christ more deeply, to love our neighbor, and to preach the truth

again, I am sorry if I offended any of you

Keep up the good work.
Keep hoping to help.

Love is helping others to know.

 

[Rhamiel]

Don't worry about it, Rhamiel, I've known you for a long time and I know who you are. It's nice actually chatting with you for a change.

I know the secular world has taken that remark by Pope Francis and has run with it, but as a Catholic the Holy Father's words only confirm what I already had a sense of. And prior to his becoming pope, I'd already taken a jaundiced eye toward politicians who purport to be pro-life.

I'll come out of the closet now and confess to attending my gay nieces same sex union. I didn't want to go, but I opted to mostly because I didn't want to be called a bigot, but also I knew it would be impossible to explain to her and she would never understand not to mention how awkward it would be for my wife, her aunt. I was terribly uncomfortable at the event and in the end the relationship dissolved not long after. All this to say, admonishing the sinner wouldn't have worked out too well in this for instance.

My other niece got married as well. Though it was to a male, it was both of their second marriages. While this one was awkward for me as well, I don't think it's my place to admonishing them.

I've got other real life examples. Like my mom, married for the fourth time, sacristan with her husband at their liberal Catholic parish, how do think that conversation should go?

I just don't want to run around wagging fingers telling everyone what they're doing wrong. That's what Calvinist's do.

we do not want to alienate family or drive people away

sometimes you have tough calls, breaking off relationships with family members will not help either one of you

I am kind of lost at the "finger wagging" idea though, I mean people CAN do it that way, I mean people can come across as "holier then thou" and just ruin it
but it is not like we pretend people can do whatever they want with their lives
we live in a culture that has Interventions for alcoholics
because alcoholism and drug addiction are horrible things and can ruin your life
and we judge those people, if not a personal judgment we let them know that their actions are harmful
we do not say "I do not want to wag my finger at him, let him drink himself into an early grave"
atleast we do not say that about people we love
and I am NOT accusing you of lack of love
because I think the same way sometimes "if I say something it will just cause more trouble then its worth, and they probably will not even listen to me"
and I do not pretend to have all the answers

there are no easy answers (uuuuhg that is such a cliché thing to say, but it is true)

I am not judging individuals
and I know I have made a lot of serious mistakes, I have hurt good people who have trusted me, I need forgiven and I need saved by Christ

 

[Michie]

I was in no uncertain terms I could not attend a gay wedding or even the reception as a Catholic. Easier said than done. Especially if it is family or someone like family.

we do not want to alienate family or drive people away

sometimes you have tough calls, breaking off relationships with family members will not help either one of you

I am kind of lost at the "finger wagging" idea though, I mean people CAN do it that way, I mean people can come across as "holier then thou" and just ruin it
but it is not like we pretend people can do whatever they want with their lives
we live in a culture that has Interventions for alcoholics
because alcoholism and drug addiction are horrible things and can ruin your life
and we judge those people, if not a personal judgment we let them know that their actions are harmful
we do not say "I do not want to wag my finger at him, let him drink himself into an early grave"
atleast we do not say that about people we love
and I am NOT accusing you of lack of love
because I think the same way sometimes "if I say something it will just cause more trouble then its worth, and they probably will not even listen to me"
and I do not pretend to have all the answers

there are no easy answers (uuuuhg that is such a cliché thing to say, but it is true)

I am not judging individuals
and I know I have made a lot of serious mistakes, I have hurt good people who have trusted me, I need forgiven and I need saved by Christ

 

[pdudgeon]

i think it's a reflection of the uncertain times we live in.
essentially it's like standing in an earthquake zone when a trembler comes.

For those who've never been in an earthquake --think roller coaster times 10. What is stable shifts and moves under your feet like a wave in the ocean.

Whenever uncertainty happens the automatic response is to:
1. reach for something stable and hang on until the shaking ceases, or
2. if there's nothing that is stable, then run for cover. immediately.

for safety's sake i'll just leave it at that. and run for cover.
Revelation 13:5-10 click on 'home' on this site.