We are not a conservative forum or a liberal forum. Just Catholic.

tadoflamb

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I think it is interesting that some cannot the words liberal or conservative outside the context of politics. I'm not taking about those two words in the context of politics.

Maybe those who self-identify as conservatives can help us out with that one. It's not a name that I gave them.

The same with liberal. I don't self-identify as one, and I'm still trying to figure out what it means. However, after returning from mass this morning, I'm pretty sure I'm surrounded by a bunch of them.
 
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Davidnic

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The thing is this, as far as I see it, you can not divide faith and politics because politics (or at least political things) has an impact on how we live in the world. If you are a person politics will have something to do with your life.

But our faith (Catholic) is not isolated to supporting views on only one side of the political spectrum. So the problem becomes when we try to reduce, limit and cripple Catholicism by shoving it into only one side.

We must let our faith inform our politics and not our politics rewrite our faith. And I think this is where we get problems.

And then there is the broader issue of just the terms conservative or liberal. The same thing, we can not shoehorn the Catholic faith into how those things are expressed. The thing is people want to use the words in whatever way reinforces their already decided view. And when they do that they can just assume that a person on that end is a cardboard cut our of what they want them to be.

This is also totally incompatible with the Catholic faith. Someone was so frustrated with me locally the other day because they could not grasp that I would be anti Abortion, anti death penalty, pro robust welfare, pro living wage, pro traditional views of marriage, pro refugee rights, pro protections for religious objections and against the torture of terrorists.

They wanted to know what political party that made me. I told them: None. They were mystified at what group could possibly hold those beliefs together and were sure there wasn't one. I told them what I identify as is Catholic. They said no, Catholics are Republican and conservative. I told them, well generally conservative but not how you mean it. Not lock step in the political sense.
 
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WarriorAngel

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When did conservative become such an ugly word?
How we ought to be - theoretically utopia - abide by all the laws of God via His church - even if we personally cannot understand it - we just have to trust God knows us better and all HIS laws are for our perfection and how we love others - all others as God's beloved souls.
And we must follow these laws with true love for the sinners - to want them to be Heaven ward - and to live these 'rules' regardless if we want to or not.

Our comprehension level is 'now' - self.
We need to redirect to 'eternity' for all - and God's POV even when we don't fully grasp Him and His laws - we do all of the above only by the one desire to do God's will because it is perfect.
AND to do so - by love and only true heart felt love for God and all others.

That's pretty much how we should all be.

God's laws + love His laws for others [not just self] = Heavenly.
 
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WarriorAngel

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HOW i see everyone's line drawn in the sand...

Conservative = laws. Some see it as too strict without regard to caring.
Liberal = caring so much, you don't comprehend stopping sinners - but accepting them in their sins and the belief they are entitled to sin as a right.

Both a tad lopsided.

It has to be both.
One must be fully inclined to know and accept the laws - but must help change the world by being an example of loving someone and wanting their souls to be saved.
This must be done by holding true to the laws - while loving the sinner enough to care for the souls and not this life.

MODERATE is how i am - i want both.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Jesus said lukewarm, he's gonna spit them out.

lukewarm is 'thinking' love means accepting the sin.
it can also mean not accepting the sinner..because they transgress the precepts.

its both - if we are on fire for souls.
 
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Michie

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But that's the thing. We should not be thinking, oh good I'm surrounded by liberals. When you are simply surrounded by Catholics. You know, it seems people think liberal equals nice. It doesn't as demonstrated on these boards every day. Same holds true for conservatives and the thought that equals judgmental prude. It is a form discrimination. We have catholics we hold things in common with and some we don't except the faith. What freaks me out is I find the RCC more divided than any protestant Church I attended.
Maybe those who self-identify as conservatives can help us out with that one. It's not a name that I gave them.

The same with liberal. I don't self-identify as one, and I'm still trying to figure out what it means. However, after returning from mass this morning, I'm pretty sure I'm surrounded by a bunch of them.
 
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Michie

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Amen!
The thing is this, as far as I see it, you can not divide faith and politics because politics (or at least political things) has an impact on how we live in the world. If you are a person politics will have something to do with your life.

But our faith (Catholic) is not isolated to supporting views on only one side of the political spectrum. So the problem becomes when we try to reduce, limit and cripple Catholicism by shoving it into only one side.

We must let our faith inform out politics and not our politics rewrite our faith. And I think this is where we get problems.

And then there is the broader issue of just the terms conservative or liberal. The same thing, we can not shoehorn the Catholic faith into how those things are expressed. The thing is people want to use the words in whatever way reinforces their already decided view. And when they do that they can just assume that a person on that end is a cardboard cut our of what they want them to be.

This is also totally incompatible with the Catholic faith. Someone was so frustrated with me locally the other day because they could not grasp that I would be anti Abortion, anti death penalty, pro robust welfare, pro living wage, pro traditional views of marriage, pro refugee rights, pro protections for religious objections and against the torture of terrorists.

They wanted to know what political party that made me. I told them: None. They were mystified at what group could possibly hold those beliefs together and were sure there wasn't one. I told them what I identify as is Catholic. They said no, Catholics are Republican and conservative. I told them, well generally conservative but not how you mean it. Not lock step in the political sense.
 
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WarriorAngel

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And that's liberals

im not liberal.
i see the sin as death to souls.
i dont accept that we allow ppl to have rights to do those things when their souls mean more than what the world offers.

but i also understand handing out scriptures without living them causes confusion and anger among sinners.

im less so they can be more.
ie - i cant throttle anyone because i've made a mess of sins - but rather want to profess the truth of God so others can hopefully conform their hearts to God - rather than what pleases the world.
to do so - can only be in my actions.

i do not defend immorality because i know more.
i am at fault if i know more but cant share the love by my actions and understanding [compassion] because i too need to be reminded im a failure too... and want to help ppl... rather than accepting their fate as lost in the next world.

a balancing act - that is by no means easy.

our every action, deed and word can lose hearts if we profess love but do not hinder others to seek how to love...

love concerns itself with eternal happiness for all.
and it is knowing the laws in which to get there.
 
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Michie

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Oh me too! But I do like the truth and it seems both sides skirt the truth depending on what the topic is. I can't imagine converting inspired by frothy condemnation nor can I imagine converting based of false pretenses as if I can really trump church teaching depending on my conscience. Neither are true.
Personally, the word conservative has never left my lips with the same derision that the word liberal used to. It's just that the performance of some self-identified conservatives recently has made me question if I would I have converted if I had thought theirs was an authentic expression of Catholicism.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Oh me too! But I do like the truth and it seems both sides skirt the truth depending on what the topic is. I can't imagine converting inspired by frothy condemnation nor can I imagine converting based of false pretenses as if I can really trump church teaching depending on my conscience. Neither are true.
:oldthumbsup:
nailed it
 
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Rhamiel

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I think it is interesting that some cannot the words liberal or conservative outside the context of politics. I'm not taking about those two words in the context of politics.

but they ARE political terms

I only use them because they are the popular terms used in public conversation
like I normally think of the Church as "The Catholic Church" but I will use the term "Roman Catholic Church" in conversation in order to communicate better with the person I am talking to
 
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Michie

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but they ARE political terms

I only use them because they are the popular terms used in public conversation
like I normally think of the Church as "The Catholic Church" but I will use the term "Roman Catholic Church" in conversation in order to communicate better with the person I am talking to
Yes Rhamiel. Sort of the point though. We are Catholics. There is no such thing as liberal or conservative in The Catholic context. Just Catholic. I have read the Church feels the same and my own priest has said as much. So why do we slap labels on one another?
 
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WarriorAngel

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my label :D

d21126b6c48ed1886c031dfd7c1c6fbd.jpg
 
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Catherineanne

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a conservative Catholic is one who believes, trusts, and follows the Church. the wise bridesmaids.
a liberal Catholic is one who believes and trusts their own judgements, and who follows the world.
the foolish bridesmaids.

Twaddle.
 
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benedictaoo

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im not liberal.
i see the sin as death to souls.
i dont accept that we allow ppl to have rights to do those things when their souls mean more than what the world offers.

but i also understand handing out scriptures without living them causes confusion and anger among sinners.

im less so they can be more.
ie - i cant throttle anyone because i've made a mess of sins - but rather want to profess the truth of God so others can hopefully conform their hearts to God - rather than what pleases the world.
to do so - can only be in my actions.

i do not defend immorality because i know more.
i am at fault if i know more but cant share the love by my actions and understanding [compassion] because i too need to be reminded im a failure too... and want to help ppl... rather than accepting their fate as lost in the next world.

a balancing act - that is by no means easy.

our every action, deed and word can lose hearts if we profess love but do not hinder others to seek how to love...

love concerns itself with eternal happiness for all.
and it is knowing the laws in which to get there.
I know you're not liberal. Those crazy WBB aren't conservative. There is no such thing as a conservative Catholic but you can be a liberal Catholic and that is one who believes in the immoral things. If you do not believe in sin, then you're not conservative. You're correct. So.
 
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