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Washington Times: Obama's plan is to destroy America's private health care industry

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Jeffwhosoever, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Ministry Liaison Staff Member Community Coordinator Supporter Staff on LOA CF Ambassador

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    "Obamacare is doomed to fail eventually, not because of a website failure, but rather because the law itself is internally contradictory and in violation of the fundamental laws of economics, the hallmark of all grandiose schemes of central planning and government control. In the process of failing, Obamacare will destroy not only the individual health insurance market (which there is now little doubt was an integral and intentional design objective of the measure), but also eventually eliminate the employer group health insurance market as well, which will doom Obamacare as we know it."

    Read more: HUNTER: His plan is to destroy America's private health care industry - Washington Times
     
  2. A2SG

    A2SG Senior Member

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    That individual's opinion aside....If there are problems with the ideas behind the ACA, perhaps it would be best to blame that on the ones who came up with those ideas.

    -- A2SG, just sayin'....
     
  3. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Ministry Liaison Staff Member Community Coordinator Supporter Staff on LOA CF Ambassador

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    Nice curve ball, but regardless of the origin of the idea, it was the Democrats who wrote the Affordable Care Act, and it was the Democratic Congress, Senate, and President that made it into law.

    But your attempts to credit the GOP with the origin of Obamacare makes me wonder about what you are thinking. Do you think the ACA is so bad that you want to blame the GOP too? Why are you so afraid of giving the Democrats credit for the ACA if you think the ACA is a good piece of legislation?
     
  4. Panzerkamfwagen

    Panzerkamfwagen Es braust unser Panzer im Sturmwind dahin.

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    So, none of the blame goes to people who were actually, you know, responsible for passing the law?

    :doh:

    Or signing it?

    It say that if lawmakers draft a poor law and vote for a poor law, and the president signs a poor law, it is the lawmakers who passed it, and the president who signed it who bear responsibility for the outcome.
     
    Jeffwhosoever likes this.
  5. A2SG

    A2SG Senior Member

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    Yup. But if you want to criticize the economic ideas behind the law, then you need to go to the source of those ideas.

    And those were conservative ideas, market based and geared toward private industry working to solve all the problems of society.

    Kinda doomed to failure from the start, huh?

    I live in Massachusetts, don't forget. I know full well the problems this plan creates. I disagreed with the idea when Mitt Romney was governor of Mass, and I disagreed with them when President Obama and the democrats accepted them from the GOP. But, at least Mitt allowed for a public option, something the federal plan sorely needs.

    The thing is, there are some good parts of the ACA, most dealing with insurance reform, and there are few industries more in need of reform than private health insurance!

    -- A2SG, and those reforms are VERY popular with Americans....
     
  6. A2SG

    A2SG Senior Member

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    Politicians today don't write laws, lobbyists do.

    Politicians can, and should, be blamed for accepting those ideas and passing them into law. But, as I said, if you want to criticize the ideas behind the law, then you need to go to the source of those ideas.

    In the case of the ACA, that would be the Heritage Foundation.

    Yup. But the opinion piece criticized the economic IDEAS behind the law, and those IDEAS came from conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation. It is a conservative market-based plan to solve the problems of health care.

    Part of the reason Mass. has less problem with it is the insurance carriers here are all non-profits (who still manage to show a ton of profit nevertheless), and don't carry the economic clout the private, for-profit health insurance industry does.

    -- A2SG, we still got health insurance company hissy fits, but they didn't have the same national impact, especially because of MassHealth.....
     
  7. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    That doesn't flow logically. If you implement a bad idea, even if it is someone else's, that is your personal oversight.
     
  8. A2SG

    A2SG Senior Member

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    If you don't like a book, do you blame the publisher?

    -- A2SG, okay, if you didn't like the cover or the type face they printed it in, or the release date, then that's fine....
     
  9. Purge187

    Purge187 Former Prodigal.

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    Obama and the people who voted in favor of the ACA are holding an economic gun up to our collective temples and forcing us to buy a private product.

    I actually hope it fails, because it will mean that the two heads of the Hydra (big government and big business) will be seperated a bit for a change.
     
  10. Sistrin

    Sistrin Rightful King of Westeros

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    You need to remember all of this as2g is posting is propaganda and misdirection, meant to divert attention away from the actual issue. OBAMACARE is an unmitigated disaster, and as stated in the article an intentional one crafted to destroy the private health care system.

    Neither the Heritage Foundation nor any Republican back in 1993 ever had that in mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
    NightHawkeye likes this.
  11. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    We aren't speaking of books, that analogy doesn't line up.

    Republicans came up with a plan, and in fact that basic plan was put into action in one state. Democrats then took that plan, and put into action nationally. If the plan was unsound, the democrats shouldn't have used it. If they didn't know it was unsound, that ignorance is the fault of their own lack of due diligence.

    It is fine to look back at the republicans that crafted the framework for this plan (many are still in office) and fault them for making a bad plan, but that does not in any way absolve the democrats for putting that plan into action.

    Just because they didn't have something in mind doesn't mean it wouldn't be the result. Plenty of projects and programs go sideways when put into application.
     
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  12. GarfieldJL

    GarfieldJL Regular Member

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    You know, I'm getting more than a little fed up with Democrats trying to blame everyone else for a mess that they made, instead of taking responsibility for the mess they made.

    Claiming that one piece of bad legislation which is only 70 pages long is identical to another piece of even worse legislation that is over 2000 pages long is laughable.

    The only reason Romneycare worked at all was because Senator Ted Kennedy managed to get it so that taxpayers nationwide were footing the bill.


    Vylo, the mess Obamacare is causing is intentional, the only thing that wasn't intentional was the website debacle and the thing collapsing as soon as it rolled out. Obama wanted it so that Republicans would get the blame when it collapsed, but the mainstream media appears to have finally turned on Obama.

    It was never about healthcare, it was a power-grab designed to seize control of 1/6th of the economy.
     
  13. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Ideas are one thing, voting for them are another.
     
  14. GarfieldJL

    GarfieldJL Regular Member

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    Digging rejected ideas out of somebody else's trash bin doesn't make it so Democrats can pin the blame on Republicans. The idea that Democrats are claiming was behind Obamacare, was rejected for a reason; maybe Democrats need to learn to stop digging through other people's trash bins.
     
  15. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    I get a kick out of this; "it was a republican idea" claim and they got what they wanted.

    Well, they obviously didn't get what they wanted, because no one voted for it. If they wanted it, they likely would have voted for it, don't ya think?

    And, then we go to; they didn't vote for it because Obama was president. This is more bunk. If McCain defeated Obama in 2008, the republicans would not have led a charge to vote for the ACA.

    I'm all for fixing the healthcare system, because it needs fixing, but this blame game because the ACA has been a bust, is garbage.
     
  16. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    I'm afraid that the argument actually holds. Republicans in particular have a bad habit of supporting something right up until a democrat suggests it. Ironic that you mention McCain, who thought Chuck Hagel was one of the greatest things since sliced bread...until Obama nominated him for secretary of defense.
     
  17. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    Well, it didn't seize any of the economy. I think it is a bit of paranoia at work with this statement.
     
  18. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    You think if Obama was not in office, republicans would have voted for the ACA?
     
  19. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

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    Right. Because Obama and the Dems aren't responsible for anything that goes wrong with anything. :doh:
     
  20. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    That wasn't the statement made. The statement was made it was opposed because it was democrat proposed. If a republican had put it forward, then yes, it likely would have been voted for by republicans.


    The likelyhood of it being proposed is more debatable. The original framework was used as a counter-proposal to single payer, so without that proposition on the board, highly unlikely. But if congress pushed forward a single payer bill with large support under a republican president, there could have been a resurrection of the ACA's predecessor to be used as a compromise, if they thought there was a significant chance of a single payer bill making it through.
     
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