Was Yeshua saved by the Law of God?

[BukiRob]

Every obedient step anyone takes whether God or man, is a step in the life of eternity... the ultimate salvation... ask God He should know how to live for eternity.. and He made these laws. He knows what saves man, keeps them sinless if they but walk in it.

So now YOU are defining what G-d can and cannot do? Yeshua was NOT a sinner and as such was NOT in need of salvation!

 

[BukiRob]

Every obedient step anyone takes whether God or man, is a step in the life of eternity... the ultimate salvation... ask God He should know how to live for eternity.. and He made these laws. He knows what saves man, keeps them sinless if they but walk in it.

You have a very, very serious flaw in your argument. Yeshua TOOK upon HIMSELF my sin, your sin all mankind's sin. He paid the price DUE under the law of MY SIN. He was sinless from the beginning and had no need for personal salvation. The LAW DOES NOT SAVE

 

[gadar perets]

His Father had no right to resurrect the sinful, unless Yeshua was successful at dying sinless. So we all need to see the law as not separated from His work of salvation but the key to His work of salvation.

You just changed the subject. In the OP, you asked about the Law saving Yeshua. Now you are dealing with how the Law relates to mankind's salvation. Yeshua said;

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Mat 18:11
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The sheep of the house of Israel were lost due to sin and therefore need to be saved from sin and death. Yeshua was never lost. Therefore, he never needed to be saved UNTIL the day he took our sins upon himself. You would be more correct to say, "His sinless life kept him from needing to be saved" rather than, "His sinless life saved him." However, even that would be incorrect since there came a point in time when he needed to be saved from our sins (taken upon himself) and from death.

​

 

[visionary]

Yeshua was 100% G-d spiritually and 100% man physically. He was under no need of salvation. Being physically a man he was exposed to the temptation of being man but did not succumb to those temptations to sin. He was under no need of salvation. Again, if Messiah was not sinless from beginning to end, he could not be the sacrifice without spot or blemish

You are missing the point... ... If Yeshua had not obeyed the law, he would have sinned. It is the obedience to the law that saved Him.

 

[visionary]

You just changed the subject. In the OP, you asked about the Law saving Yeshua. Now you are dealing with how the Law relates to mankind's salvation. Yeshua said;

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Mat 18:11
​

The sheep of the house of Israel were lost due to sin and therefore need to be saved from sin and death. Yeshua was never lost. Therefore, he never needed to be saved UNTIL the day he took our sins upon himself. You would be more correct to say, "His sinless life kept him from needing to be saved" rather than, "His sinless life saved him." However, even that would be incorrect since there came a point in time when he needed to be saved from our sins (taken upon himself) and from death.

​

I am not changing the subject. Yeshua was saved by the law. Man's salvation is dependent on Yeshua's saving grace, His Holy Spirit leading you in overcoming, and perfect obedience to His Law. Walking in the Law of God is the example Yeshua gave, and said "go and sin no more".

 

[visionary]

So now YOU are defining what G-d can and cannot do? Yeshua was NOT a sinner and as such was NOT in need of salvation!

IN order for Yeshua to be tempted, there had to be the chance of Yeshua sinning.

 

[Hank77]

Jesus is the only person who didn't deserve Hell because he lived a perfect life.

Agreed.

Yeshua was conceived by the Ruach Hakodesh as such he was not born a sinner. It was this fact that because he was spiritually G-d that he could walk flawlessness in keeping Torah.

Agreed.

IN order for Yeshua to be tempted, there had to be the chance of Yeshua sinning.

I think I agree with that as well. Would you agree that He was the Second Adam? He was born without sin but had a will of His own? The first Adam used his will to disobey God. The Second Adam used His will to only do the will of His Father?

 

[daq]

IN order for Yeshua to be tempted, there had to be the chance of Yeshua sinning.

Hmmm, so how then should we understand the following?

James 1:13 ASV
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:

James 1:13 W/H
13 μηδεις πειραζομενος λεγετω οτι απο θεου πειραζομαι ο γαρ θεος απειραστος εστιν κακων πειραζει δε αυτος ουδενα

πειραζομενος = "(being) tempted" (V-PPM/P-NMS)
απειραστος = "untemptable" (not possible for such a one to be tempted)

Mark 1:13 ASV
13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Mark 1:13 W/H
13 και ην εν τη ερημω τεσσερακοντα ημερας πειραζομενος υπο του σατανα και ην μετα των θηριων και οι αγγελοι διηκονουν αυτω

Luke 4:2 ASV
2 during forty days, being tempted of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.

Luke 4:2 W/H
2 ημερας τεσσερακοντα πειραζομενος υπο του διαβολου και ουκ εφαγεν ουδεν εν ταις ημεραις εκειναις και συντελεσθεισων αυτων επεινασεν

πειραζομενος ~ Mark 1:13 - Luke 4:2 - James 1:13


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[visionary]

Agreed.

Agreed.

I think I agree with that as well. Would you agree that He was the Second Adam? He was born without sin but had a will of His own? The first Adam used his will to disobey God. The Second Adam used His will to only do the will of His Father?

Yes... In Hebrews we read that Yeshua

Heb 4:15 "has been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet was without sin"

He is also described as

Heb 7:26 "a high priest [who] meets our need - one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens"

and Heb 9:14 "unblemished"

Even Peter, who knew Yeshua well, declared that He
1 Peter 2:22 "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth"

John tells us that

1 John 3:5 "In him is no sin"

and Paul confirms for us that Yeshua

2 Cor 5:21 "had no sin"

Even Yeshua himself asked those around him,

John 8:46 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?"

And on and on goes the list of declarations that Yeshua did not sin, was sinless, blameless, no deceit was found in Him, Holy, blameless, pure. What I am getting at is that Yeshua, in His obedience to the law, received these judgments from not only His disciples, but the priests of His day, and His Father. If He was not successful in living the sinless life, we would not have a savior. The only way He could have done this is by obeying the Law of God. In this was His and our salvation.

 

[visionary]

Agreed.

Agreed.

I think I agree with that as well. Would you agree that He was the Second Adam? He was born without sin but had a will of His own? The first Adam used his will to disobey God. The Second Adam used His will to only do the will of His Father?

Yeshua is indeed ‘the last Adam’ in I Corinthians 15:45 and the Apostle Paul compares the two (Yeshua and Adam), and how the first Adam failed and sinned while the last Adam got it right and by obeying the Commandments of God was obedient to His God, to the point of death. It is only by Yeshua's success at being sinless [perfect obedience to the Law of God] that He was risen from the grace and could save mankind.

1 Cor 15:21 “For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.”

They were both men [one flesh, and the other God in the flesh], who were uniquely created by God, without inheriting the sin nature from an earthly father. They were both placed in a very unique position to either pass down death or life, to the generations which followed them.

 

[visionary]

Heb 4:14 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin.”

Can't be tested if there is no chance of failure. Yeshua's salvation came because He sinned not. Therefore Yeshua was saved by the Law of God.

 

[Hank77]

Hmmm, so how then should we understand the following?

James 1:13 ASV
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:

James 1:13 W/H
13 μηδεις πειραζομενος λεγετω οτι απο θεου πειραζομαι ο γαρ θεος απειραστος εστιν κακων πειραζει δε αυτος ουδενα

πειραζομενος = "(being) tempted" (V-PPM/P-NMS)
απειραστος = "untemptable" (not possible for such a one to be tempted)

Mark 1:13 ASV
13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Mark 1:13 W/H
13 και ην εν τη ερημω τεσσερακοντα ημερας πειραζομενος υπο του σατανα και ην μετα των θηριων και οι αγγελοι διηκονουν αυτω

Luke 4:2 ASV
2 during forty days, being tempted of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.

Luke 4:2 W/H
2 ημερας τεσσερακοντα πειραζομενος υπο του διαβολου και ουκ εφαγεν ουδεν εν ταις ημεραις εκειναις και συντελεσθεισων αυτων επεινασεν

πειραζομενος ~ Mark 1:13 - Luke 4:2 - James 1:13


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Could we say that when He was incarnated He added to His Deity humanity as a God-man? He humbled Himself to be as men in being tempted as men are tempted? God come in the flesh.

 

[visionary]

I believe Yeshua could have sinned, and that’s why God exalted him so highly because Yeshua

Phil 2:8 “humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death – even death on a cross. For this reason, God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name.”

 

[Hank77]

Yeshua was saved by the law.

Is that the same as saying, The Law could not condemn Him because He only did the will of the Father? His faith/trust was in the will of His Father?

 

[visionary]

Is that the same as saying, The Law could not condemn Him because He only did the will of the Father? His faith/trust was in the will of His Father?

I like that.

 

[BukiRob]

Yes... In Hebrews we read that Yeshua

Heb 4:15 "has been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet was without sin"

He is also described as

Heb 7:26 "a high priest [who] meets our need - one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens"

and Heb 9:14 "unblemished"

Even Peter, who knew Yeshua well, declared that He
1 Peter 2:22 "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth"

John tells us that

1 John 3:5 "In him is no sin"

and Paul confirms for us that Yeshua

2 Cor 5:21 "had no sin"

Even Yeshua himself asked those around him,

John 8:46 "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?"

And on and on goes the list of declarations that Yeshua did not sin, was sinless, blameless, no deceit was found in Him, Holy, blameless, pure. What I am getting at is that Yeshua, in His obedience to the law, received these judgments from not only His disciples, but the priests of His day, and His Father. If He was not successful in living the sinless life, we would not have a savior. The only way He could have done this is by obeying the Law of God. In this was His and our salvation.

Again I can not stress how wrong you are.

THE LAW DOES NOT SAVE! Because he was without sin he was in no need of salvation.

 

[visionary]

Again I can not stress how wrong you are.

THE LAW DOES NOT SAVE! Because he was without sin he was in no need of salvation.

He was in the same boat as anyone else if He had sinned. Except there was no other to save us from sin. He was in need of keeping the Law for it was His salvation.

 

[BukiRob]

He was in the same boat as anyone else if He had sinned. Except there was no other to save us from sin. He was in need of keeping the Law for it was His salvation.

THE LAW DOES NOT SAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BukiRob]

2Co 5:21a For He (Father YHWH) hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
​

Having taken our sins upon himself and being made sin for us, he suffered the penalty due us, death. Who would save him from death? Father YHWH, for he would not and could not save himself. The Father raised him from the dead. On what grounds? Being sinless? No, for he bore our sins and was made sin. That is why he died in the first place. He was saved by grace through faith.

No. The Father did not raise him. John 10:17-18 “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”"No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."

Yeshua came into this world from the beginning sinless and came here specifically to lay down his life. His walk of being blameless before the Torah was to provide us with the blueprint or example of HOW to walk in both the letter and the spirit of Torah.

I vigorously disagree with those that would suggest that G-d is in any need of being saved.

 

[BukiRob]

He was in the same boat as anyone else if He had sinned. Except there was no other to save us from sin. He was in need of keeping the Law for it was His salvation.

If you had a tail, barked and walked around on all 4's you might be a dog....

No, no, no NO! Yeshua was and is G-d G-d is in no need of salvation PERIOD