Virgin at 18? Here's a Big Payoff!

[Smidlee]

I fail to see the connection between being a virgin until 18 and being successful in life.

Hmm... like self-control and discipline.
There was a study years ago that claims most of those who are at the top of business are still married to their first wife. I forgot what percent they claim yet it was a lot higher than average. They figure the same discipline and responsibility required in marriage is also required in business and visa versa which seems to make sense to me.

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

Hmm... like self-control and discipline.
There was a study years ago that claims most of those who are at the top of business are still married to their first wife. I forgot what percent they claim yet it was a lot higher than average. They figure the same discipline and responsibility required in marriage is also required in business and visa versa which seems to make sense to me.

Then it isn't a case of "If you stay a virgin these good things will happen", but one of "People who have these good things happen did not lose their virginity at an early age"

 

[Smidlee]

Then it isn't a case of "If you stay a virgin these good things will happen", but one of "People who have these good things happen did not lose their virginity at an early age"

well , these studies can only tell us so much. I do believe we reap what we sow so every choice we make as a teen can affect the rest of our lives. I know in my case it's true.

 

[Harpuia]

About half the students were virgins at 18 and half were not.

Are they freakin' serious?!? The last statistics I heard was that only 5% were virgins by 18...

 

[feral]

When I came across this thread, I thought the title referred to one of those ebay scandals where someone auctions off their virginity to a high bidder. Glad to see that isn't the case.

There are definitely benefits to avoiding sex as a teen. You don't have to deal with the stress and worry caused by suspecting you might be pregnant, you don't have to worry about being diseased either. You also don't have to deal with feeling used. Many of my female friends, including myself, feel that we were taking advatage of because we were coerced into having sex. In my case, I broke up with the guy a week later because I just hated him after that, but others gave their virginity and their heart, only to have their feelings of closeness and connection stomped on when the guy left. Obviously, it's easier to accept a breakup when you haven't given so much of yourself, and considering the frequency of teen breakups, most have to endure that pain many, many times (though some are lucky, and don't). Other then that, I don't see why virgins would make more money or get more education. I can understand it for me, since I've had so many bad experienced I quit relationships altogether, sometimes I think forever, and have much more time to spend on me, on working, on going to university, on studying and on developing close, non-sexual friendships in the time I used to devote to boyfriends...but for many not having sex doesn't seem to equate not dating, so I don't know. I know I'm a lot happier not dating, but most people seem pretty down when they don't have a date or aren't in a relationship.

I guess this is news to the ACLU-MTV-Pervert crowd

Um...why so hostile?

I'm a card-carrying, proud member of the ACLU. I am also very much pro-abstinence and very much in favour of waiting to have sex, if not until marriage then at least until maturity and a long-term, stable, safe relationship. While I am not a virgin, I waited until 19 and then gave in because of peer pressure and the aftermath of sexual abuse. I regret it most sincerely and wish I had waited until I was with someone I trusted and had a future with. I strongly advocate abstinence and, as a feminist, abhor the messages that push young people, especially girls, into having sex out of a sense of being abnormal or freakish if they wait. I am not whatsoever associated with Planned Parenthood, though I do advocate family planning and using birth control as well as preventing against disease if one does decide to have sex. I think there is a place for birth control within marriage too, since so many young marriages are threatened by the pressure of having kids immediately before the couple's relationship really strengthens. I'm anti-abortion. I don't watch MTV. In fact, I only watch one television programme. It's "Lost" and comes on for an hour a week, and hasn't shown anything more risque thus far then a kiss and some hand holding, though it gets pretty sappy between Charlie and Claire. I find it pretty offencive to be labelled "pervert" just because I am in support of civil rights and advocate the protection of personal freedoms. Yes, I'll admit it, I think students should be able to pray in school, that girls ought to be able to join in sports and that people shouldn't be denied an apartment lease just because they have dark brown coloured skin. If that makes me a pervert, well, okay. I guess by that standard Martin Luther King was a pervert too. Hmmm...

 

[Harpuia]

I guess this is news to the ACLU-MTV-Pervert crowd

/me laughs my butt off.

You wanna know the group who promotes non-virginity the most?

Just go to your local Church.

 

[unjustwar]

it means girls don't mess up your life

 

[SnowBear]

Well lets face it…the study in question has more than a few flaws in it. there is a problem with the sample group, problems with the kinds of comparisons done, the fact that the results they come up with cannot actually be drawn from the study itself.



In the article about the study we are told “Focus on the Family analyzed data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth that was conducted in waves from 1979 to 2000 with 3,750 men and 3,620 women.” Did anyone else her do the math? This means that their comprehensive study looked at about 170 women a year. This survey uses numbers much larger and is more comprehensive. I think it is pretty obvious that Focus on the Family did a lot of picking and choosing which subjects to look at and which to ignore.



Reading the study itself would be amusing…if only we had an opportunity to read the study itself. Is anyone else surprised that we only get to read an essay about the study? Also look at where the study was published…one might note that despite the impressive sounding name the “Journal Adolescent and Family Health” is not a scientific journal subject to peer review but a private publication. From what I could gather groups like Focus on the Family use this and similar publications to give their political propaganda and trash “studies” a veneer of scientific respectability

 

[k]

Absolutes endanger and hinder autonomy because they assume that which is not verifiable: there is no other way.

This issue is strictly contingent upon each individual and everyone is equally different so who can claim what is right for everyone?

 

[Fineous_Reese]

Absolutes endanger and hinder autonomy because they assume that which is not verifiable: there is no other way.

This issue is strictly contingent upon each individual and everyone is equally different so who can claim what is right for everyone?

eh, looks like you just made the claim, and with an absolute statement

 

[butterfoot]

I guess my question would be why does being a virgin accomplish these goals?

I would have to say that it could be due to a self esteem factor. These kids by not having sex hold themselves in higher regard to those who do have sex in highschool


-cw

 

[Harpuia]

I would have to say that it could be due to a self esteem factor. These kids by not having sex hold themselves in higher regard to those who do have sex in highschool


-cw

Personally, I thought it was the other way around...

 

[k]

eh, looks like you just made the claim, and with an absolute statement

The spins the spins...we're all DJs

The claim I made is in no way analagous to what was stated.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

The spins the spins...we're all DJs

The claim I made is in no way analagous to what was stated.

there you go making claims for other people again while using absolutes like 'all'

the claim made was that there is no way (an absolute statement) that absolutes can be verified. a self-refuting statement. combining this with the claim that these absolutely unverifiable absolutes somehow hinder folks' autonomy is making a claim that absolutes are wrong for everyone or conversely that having no absolutes is right for everyone which your following question implied no one can do. it's a little longer after i unspun it

 

[k]

there you go making claims for other people again while using absolutes like 'all'

the claim made was that there is no way (an absolute statement) that absolutes can be verified. a self-refuting statement. combining this with the claim that these absolutely unverifiable absolutes somehow hinder folks' autonomy is making a claim that absolutes are wrong for everyone or conversely that having no absolutes is right for everyone which your following question implied no one can do. it's a little longer after i unspun it

We're all DJs fine tuning the jukeboxes of our lives.

It is not simply the absolutes are unverifiable but that it is wrong to make absolutes for everyone because that in and of itself hinders autonomy.

Not ALL absolutes are unverifiable...I was speaking to the morality of the OP.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

We're all DJs fine tuning the jukeboxes of our lives.

It is not simply the absolutes are unverifiable but that it is wrong to make absolutes for everyone because that in and of itself hinders autonomy.

Not ALL absolutes are unverifiable...I was speaking to the morality of the OP.

six minutes, six minutes, six minutes Dougie Fresh you're on

i agree it would be wrong for humans to arbitrarily say something is absolute and then try to force it on other humans but that's not what we're talking about here. humans are autonomous only insofar as they can freely choose their actions but can not freely choose the consequences of those actions after the choice has been made.

 

[k]

six minutes, six minutes, six minutes Dougie Fresh you're on

i agree it would be wrong for humans to arbitrarily say something is absolute and then try to force it on other humans but that's not what we're talking about here. humans are autonomous only insofar as they can freely choose their actions but can not freely choose the consequences of those actions after the choice has been made.

The OP seems to be claiming the absolute that no one should have sex until after they are 18. That is what I was responding to.

Of course the consequences, good or bad, are out of our control once an action has been taken.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

The OP seems to be claiming the absolute that no one should have sex until after they are 18. That is what I was responding to.

Of course the consequences, good or bad, are out of our control once an action has been taken.

ahh, there's the rub. i read the OP as stating those who abstain from sex statistically do better later on, which isn't an absolute.

 

[Randall McNally]

Personally, I thought it was the other way around...

It's probably both. Low self-esteem might cause someone to withdraw instead of using sex as a vehicle for acceptance, or it might do the opposite.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

Couldn't the people that remained virgins been losers that couldn't get a partner even if they tried, so the idea of them being a virgin is rather moot?

And I think that would mean they are less likely to be sociable and successful. Whether you remain or virgin or not, I think that has little bearing on your success in life.