Vietnam Veterans, What is your oppinion of Kerry?

[Billnew]

I disliked Kerry since I heard of his actions after he got out of the war.
I knew several VVets when I was in the military. And I hold this prejudice against Kerry because of them.

Is this man the male equivalent to Hanoi Jane?

(oh, if you seen another post of mine this is her nickname)

 

[Real Corona]

I'm obivously not a Vietnam veteran. However my step father is and he is going to be voting for Kerry. I don't think it has anything to do with the war though. More on that he doesn't like what Bush is doing with the country.


My Uncle is a vet as well. I haven't asked him who he's voting for. But if I had to guess, I would say Bush.

 

[daidhaid]

I disliked Kerry since I heard of his actions after he got out of the war.
I knew several VVets when I was in the military. And I hold this prejudice against Kerry because of them.

Is this man the male equivalent to Hanoi Jane?

(oh, if you seen another post of mine this is her nickname)

so you know 2 Nam vets and they don't like Kerry so of course neither do you.
And you imply that because Kerry, after tours in Nam, stood up and protested the war is a traitor.

Kerry served America in combat, he didn't hide like Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, or Ashcroft. Like it or not for him to ever set foot in a swift boat he had to ask and ask again.

He sure ****ed off the brass by going anti-war after going to war.
however, he earned the right to his opinions the hard way.
I think he also served America by standing up against the war.

All of the above sets him above our current residents in the white house
Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, or Ashcroft , were all hawks, all pro-war all war evaders.
they just had other priorities, like their own butts, while the rest of us took up the slack and fought.

Kerry wasn't my first choice but he will do just fine compared to the chickenhawks running the show today.

Nam isn't the reason I'm voting for Kerry or why I vote against Bush. It's just a thing to factor in. A way to see inside the man.
Bush is messing America up His war is wrong that's reason enough for me.

 

[Billnew]

so you know 2 Nam vets and they don't like Kerry so of course neither do you.
And you imply that because Kerry, after tours in Nam, stood up and protested the war is a traitor.

Kerry served America in combat, he didn't hide like Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, or Ashcroft. Like it or not for him to ever set foot in a swift boat he had to ask and ask again.

He sure ****ed off the brass by going anti-war after going to war.
however, he earned the right to his opinions the hard way.
I think he also served America by standing up against the war.

All of the above sets him above our current residents in the white house
Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, or Ashcroft , were all hawks, all pro-war all war evaders.
they just had other priorities, like their own butts, while the rest of us took up the slack and fought.

Kerry wasn't my first choice but he will do just fine compared to the chickenhawks running the show today.

Nam isn't the reason I'm voting for Kerry or why I vote against Bush. It's just a thing to factor in. A way to see inside the man.
Bush is messing America up His war is wrong that's reason enough for me.

If I implied I am against Kerry because he protested the war, that was a mistake. I have no problem with protesting. It was a questionable war.
I do have a problem with his "Fonda style" of protesting. He implicated
all Vietnam Vets in war crimes and admitted to it.

Oh and the number of Vietnam vets is more like 8-10.

Bush did serve in the military(Guard or reserves, I don't remember which), like the military today, he could have been called to serve. I question the sanity of any man that volunteers for war unless the homeland is under attack or threatened.

But this is not about my original post.
It is concerning Fonda Kerry's actions after the war.
Admitting and saying everyone else was committing war crimes.
His money probably saved him from being prosecuted for war crimes.
"I participated in actions such as firing in free fire zones, burning villages,
killing livestock, using 50 cal. machine gun against people. and others killed civilians and non-combatants."

But back to OP,
DO VIETNAM VETS RESPECT OR DISRESPECT KERRY?

 

[daidhaid]

If I implied I am against Kerry because he protested the war, that was a mistake. I have no problem with protesting. It was a questionable war.
I do have a problem with his "Fonda style" of protesting. He implicated
all Vietnam Vets in war crimes and admitted to it.

He exposed war crimes as policy and put it in the congressional record.
He took the anti-war movement forward. He testified before the government how is that Fonda style.

Bush did serve in the military(Guard or reserves, I don't remember which), like the military today, he could have been called to serve. I question the sanity of any man that volunteers for war unless the homeland is under attack or threatened.

not everyone accepts a dental chart as proof of service.
You think Bush was sane for avoiding Nam, I say he is a chickenhawk.
Sanity?
My platoon was generaly about 1/2 RA at any given moment.
I'd also say they had it together as well as the Draftees and better than most of the remfs I see posting iin these forums.

But this is not about my original post.
It is concerning Fonda Kerry's actions after the war.
Admitting and saying everyone else was committing war crimes.
His money probably saved him from being prosecuted for war crimes.
"I participated in actions such as firing in free fire zones, burning villages,
killing livestock, using 50 cal. machine gun against people. and others killed civilians and non-combatants."

What do you think happens in a free fire zone? The rules of engagement are set aside.
If it lives you kill it. If it grows you kill it. If it burns you burn it.
All persons, men women children, in a free fire zone are automatically classed as enemy, you kill them if you can. they escape if they can.
Booby traps are left behind, water is poluted, crops are destroyed.
Artillery can be called in on any target H&I fire is permitted as requested.
We used IED's daily and often left them when we moved out.
There is nothing at all unusual about any of that.
Kerry never did anything to be prosecuted for, his money didn't protect him.
If that were the case Kerry could have used his money and connections to avoid combat or service altogether like our current leaders.
If Kerry is a hero or just a guy who went he still maxes out over Bush and Chenney

I don't like to think of myself as an apologist for Kerry, but I am a member VVAW, and so was he when he testified before congress at the winter soldier hearings.
this link will take you to his actual words. Read for yourself what he said.
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/s...ces/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html
Yes he did allege that war crimes were common, and he gave general examples. No small surprise the brass didn't like seeing a Naval officer protesting in front of congress.
He was not indicting soldiers or individuals he spoke for the victims on all sides. Guess what war crimes were common, and most of us didn't see them as crimes or we no longer cared. Kerry told the world.
Kerry parted with VVAW long ago and he probably wouldn't attract my vote today if it weren't for Bushes policies.
Kerry is just is the better man.

 

[Gunny]

.

 

[armyman_83]

so you know 2 Nam vets and they don't like Kerry so of course neither do you.
And you imply that because Kerry, after tours in Nam, stood up and protested the war is a traitor..

Kerry only served 3 months in Nam, but he got 3 purple hearts......ummm interseting. Not possable sorry from what I have heard I get a bad pic I mean he was just another Kenndy . Down with Kerry, Im not saying Bush is good Im just saying Bush is better than Kerry.

 

[Gunny]

Im not saying Bush is good Im just saying Bush is better than Kerry.

AMEN, Brother In Christ!!!

 

[WarSong]

.

oh man...that's a good pic.

 

[daidhaid]

Foes' private eye looks into Kerry war record; vets say words twisted

By Wayne Slater
The Dallas Morning News
AP
Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is seen in a Vietnam War-era photo receiving a military decoration.

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AUSTIN, Texas — Opponents of Sen. John Kerry have hired a private investigator to gather information aimed at discrediting his military service, say several veterans who served with the Massachusetts Democrat in Vietnam.

Several veterans who have been contacted in recent days accused the private investigator, Tom Rupprath of Rockwall, Texas, of twisting their words to produce misleading and inaccurate accounts that call into doubt the medals Kerry received for his service.

"They're just distorting things," said Jim Wasser, who served with Kerry. "They have nothing to go after John Kerry for, so now they're trying to discredit him."

Rupprath was hired by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth on the recommendation of Merrie Spaeth, a Dallas public-relations executive assisting the anti-Kerry group.

The investigator declined to discuss his work, but Spaeth said he is a former FBI agent assigned to produce an accurate and objective account of how the Democratic presidential candidate earned his combat medals.

"You need to have a third eye that looks at this, somebody who, even though you hired him, people know that his integrity is unquestioned and who puts this together the way an investigator would look at it," said Spaeth, who was a communications adviser in the Reagan White House.

The Kerry campaign accused Swift Boat Veterans of being a politically motivated group with ties to the Republican Party and the Bush administration. The Bush campaign says it is not associated with the group.

Political campaigns routinely gather information on opponents, but typically use consultants or campaign aides rather than private investigators, according to political experts.

The hiring of a licensed private investigator to make calls in recent days suggested that the Kerry foes are preparing a stepped-up assault on his military record as the election approaches.

"This is unusual in that it appears to be 'push' research and not real research," said Glenn Smith, a Democratic consultant and author of the book "The Politics of Deceit." "Push research means you have a conclusion and you're going to talk to people and push their words to reach your conclusion."

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth held a news conference in May in Washington to assail Kerry. Members of the group, including veterans who had served with Kerry, have criticized his anti-war testimony before Congress in 1971 and questioned the circumstances under which he earned three Purple Hearts.

The organization is known as a "527" for the tax code provision under which it is organized. It can raise money for voter drives and issue advertising so long as it does not coordinate with the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign.

A spokesman for the organization, John O'Neill, is a lawyer in Houston. He succeeded Kerry as commander of his swift boat in Vietnam and was recruited by the Nixon administration in the 1970s to counter Kerry's anti-war comments.

O'Neill and other members of the Swift Boat Veterans group have challenged whether Kerry deserved his combat medals and contend he is unfit to serve as commander in chief.

Grant Hibbard, a commander when Kerry reported his first injury in Vietnam, said the wound was most likely self-inflicted and that the report at the time indicated there was no enemy fire.

Veterans who were on the boat with Kerry give a different version. Pat Runyon said the crew was patrolling north of Cam Ranh Bay the night of Dec. 2, 1968, when Kerry and fellow crewman Bill Zaledonis spotted Viet Cong guerrillas massed on a beach and began firing.

He said Kerry was subsequently treated for a wound to the arm, which led to his first Purple Heart.

Runyon said he recounted the episode for the private investigator because he gave the impression he was working for an independent or pro-Kerry veterans group. But Runyon said he was distressed when the investigator sent him an inaccurate synopsis of their conversation suggesting that the wound was likely caused by a flare.

"I have no problems with the truth as long as they put it out the way it happened," he said. "But I told him I didn't want him to use it, didn't like it and felt he'd missed the whole feeling of the mission."

Rupprath would say only that his investigation is ongoing.

 

[Billnew]

.

This says it all

 

[DeltaJ]

I disliked Kerry since I heard of his actions after he got out of the war.
I knew several VVets when I was in the military. And I hold this prejudice against Kerry because of them.

Is this man the male equivalent to Hanoi Jane?

(oh, if you seen another post of mine this is her nickname)

i agree with totally bro.

Here's what kerry (he dosen't desevre to have his name capitalized) did when
he came back for Nam.

1.) threw the medals he is oh so proud of now over the white house fence. (admitted this

2.) ****ed on the Iwo Jima memorial. (pictures of this)

3.) burned the American Flag. (pictires of this)

4.) spit on the flag. (pictures of this)

5.) disgraced other Nam vets.

here some nice pictures.

 

[daidhaid]

i agree with totally bro.

Here's what kerry (he dosen't desevre to have his name capitalized) did when
he came back for Nam.

1.) threw the medals he is oh so proud of now over the white house fence. (admitted this

2.) ****ed on the Iwo Jima memorial. (pictures of this)

3.) burned the American Flag. (pictires of this)

4.) spit on the flag. (pictures of this)

5.) disgraced other Nam vets.

here some nice pictures.

It would probably serve your cause to limit your statements to the truth and not the he said she said he did stuff.
Kerry protested the war, after volunteering to go and actually going.
He stood in front of Congress and sayed what he believed... Like it or not America was fed up with that war and what we were doing.
The criticism of his war record is inaccurate and shameful.
His actual crewmen stand by him.
They refute the lies.
I don't understand how another vet can participate in attacking Kerry's war record, it is just a case of partisan politics gone mad.
Those guys never layed eyes on Kerry in Nam.
The same crew dumped on McCaine and Max Cleavland too.
The fact is Kerry went and Bush didn't Kerry saw combat Bush didn't, there isn't much more to say.
Everyone knew that back then, the guard was a way to avoid combat that's why the waiting lists were so long to enlist.
Everyone in country knew swift boats were dangerous and a volunteer only assignment.
Four months on a swift boat trumps the majority of jobs in Nam.

He didn't pee on war memorials hold hands with Jane, spit on, or burn the flag.
He did stand up and voice dissent. I was in Nam when he was protesting and believe me I wanted the war to end. It doesnt offend or disgrace me that Kerry said some awful truths to the American people.
I don't think Kerry attacked Vets in protesting.
He attacked the system that failed to represent the values he and many others believed in.

Think on this: if it came to it, and America needed it, and it was up to the individual to actually pick up a weapon, move out, into combat.
who would do the job himself.
based on the past...
Bush ? never in a million years.
Kerry? Been there done that.

Kerry is not the man I would have chosen above all others, but he will do just fine. He won't please everyone but he will do his duty.

 

[Jacey]

FYI-

To correct what was said earlier, Rumsfeld was in the Navy.

If you call Clinton a "draft dodger," then Cheney is even worse. Cheney had 5 deferments.

It makes me sick to hear people say that Kerry betrayed vets in his country. He opposed the war, because he wanted less of our troops to die.

Should we have supported the troops and stayed in Vietnam another 5-10+ years? Would that be patriotic?

 

[daidhaid]

FYI-

To correct what was said earlier, Rumsfeld was in the Navy.

If you call Clinton a "draft dodger," then Cheney is even worse. Cheney had 5 deferments.

It makes me sick to hear people say that Kerry betrayed vets in his country. He opposed the war, because he wanted less of our troops to die.

Should we have supported the troops and stayed in Vietnam another 5-10+ years? Would that be patriotic?

yes correction noted Runsfeld is a navy vet and you are right on with the rest also.

 

[Jacey]

Should we have supported the troops and stayed in Vietnam another 5-10+ years? Would that be patriotic?

I'm going to quote myself and ask those who despise Kerry for his actions after returning home from Vietnam to answer my questions.

Would it have been patriotic to have 60,000 deaths? 80,000? 100,000? Should we have stayed in the war? Should Kerry have come back and cheered for more men to be sent to their deaths?

 

[Gunny]

Kerry is not the man I would have chosen above all others, but he will do just fine. He won't please everyone but he will do his duty.

Kerry, is a man of dishonor and he lacks integrity.

He might do fine for the liberal doves but not for those that know that Kerry performed his duties as a traitor in 1971. He betrayed ALL Vets by his gross lies concerning the subject of war atrocities. Kerry cared not for his fellow brothers still in harm's way and those being held as POW's.

 

[arnegrim]

Those guys never layed eyes on Kerry in Nam.

Wrong. The swiftboats operated in groups of 2 or more. They were based in the same camp. Many of 'those guys' were operating in swiftboats that were grouped with Kerry... and ate and slept in the same camp as Kerry.

 

[daidhaid]

You guys are going to hard on this.
It's wrong to slash and burn on Kerry because he is not your candidate.
Your opinions are questionable athe the very least they are controversial and open to debate.

"McCain Says It's Dishonest & Dishonorable-Same Thing That Happened to Him in 2000.

"Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well. 'It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,' McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush'." [AP, 8/5/04]"

here are some Kerry links
Summary of Kerry official military records
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

after action reports
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/combat_reports.html

command history costal 11
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/command_history.html

 

[daidhaid]

The bar for political discussion needs to be raised just a tad...


President Bush Refuses to Condemn Smear Ad

...Yet Praises Kerry’s “Noble” Military Service

The following statement was issued by Kerry campaign spokesperson, Chad Clanton, in response to President Bush continuing to refuse to condemn the smear campaign against John Kerry’s military service, a smear campaign that Senator McCain has called “dishonest and dishonorable:”

“Tonight President Bush called Kerry’s service in Vietnam ‘noble.’ But in the same breath refused to heed Senator McCain’s call to condemn the dirty work being done by the ‘Swift Boat Vets for Bush.’ Once again, the President side-stepped responsibility and refused to do the right thing. His credibility is running out as fast as his time in the White House.”

CNN’S LARRY KING LIVE TRANSCRIPT, 8/12/04

LARRY KING: “In view of that, do you think that it's fair for the record, John Kerry's service record, to be an issue at all?”

GEORGE W. BUSH: “No, I think it is an issue because he… he views it as honorable service and so do I.”

AND A BIT LATER…

GEORGE W. BUSH: “But the senator [Kerry] ought to be proud of his record.”

LARRY KING: “Senator McCain has been very strong condemning it, now he’s very strong endorsing you.”

GEORGE W. BUSH: “He has, but Senator Kerry is justifiably proud of his record in Vietnam and should be. It's noble service.”

Even Leading Republicans Have Denounced These Smear Ads Against Kerry: Why won’t George W. Bush?

John McCain: “Dishonest & Dishonorable”

John McCain Says It’s Dishonest & Dishonorable—Same Thing That Happened to Him in 2000. “Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry’s military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well. ‘It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,’ McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush’.” [AP, 8/5/04]

General Tommy Franks: “Vitriolic” & “Hyperbole”

Tommy Franks, Republican Convention Speaker, Denounced These Ads and Called Them “Vitriolic” & “Hyperbole” [ABC, This Week with Stephanopoulos, 8/8/04]

Pat Buchanan: “Wrong” & “Unsubstantiated”

Pat Buchanan Says the Ad is “Wrong” and “Unsubstantiated”: “I think the ad -- not a single charge is substantiated. A number of statements just say, he is an awful, untrustworthy person. So I think the ad is wrong. But here is one thing I would say. These fellows who are making the charges in this book, ‘Unfit to Command,’ let's take a look at what their credentials are.” [MSNBC, Scarborough Country, 8/6/04]

Nebraska GOP Governor: “Trash”

Nebraska Republican Governor Calls the Ad “Trash”: “Gov. Mike Johanns among those who think the attack ads that question John Kerry's military service are nothing more than trash. Johanns, a Republican, has a long record of opposing negative campaign tactics. Some opponents of Kerry have questioned whether he deserved the three purple hearts, Bronze Star and Silver Star he received for action in Vietnam as a Navy officer who commanded a "swift boat" in the Mekong Delta. The White House distanced itself from the ads, saying it did not question Kerry's service. Johanns told the Grand Island Independent that he supported the re-election bid of President Bush, but said attack ads during the campaign could make it difficult for the eventual winner of the contest to be fully effective.” [Nebraska State Paper 8/7/04; http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/
08/07/4114e153c11e5]

Bill Kristol: “Ridiculous”

Bill Kristol Calls These Ads “Ridiculous”"It’s kind of ridiculous for other people to show up and say no he didn't." [Fox News Sunday, 8/8/04]

Rudy Giuliani: “Wrong” to Attack Kerry Like This

Rudy Giuliani Says Republicans Wrong to Question Kerry’s Vietnam Record: “Like the questions I heard you ask before, questioning John Kerry’s record in Vietnam. I think people on the Republican side are wrong to do that.” [ABC, This Week with Stephanopoulos, 8/8/2004]