Verses That Disprove SDA Sabbath

[Cribstyl]

On keeping all the Commandments, SDA prophet Ellen White put Sabbath-keeping above all the other Commandments. This comes from her visions and she made no attempt to justify it in any other way.

She made no attempt to explain why the most important Commandment would be fourth. She said that it was the Fourth Commandment, as it is in the King James Bible. She was apparently unaware that Catholics number the Commandments differently.

It is particularly hard to understand how Sabbath-keeping could be more important than "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How could keeping a Sabbath be more important than the prohibition of polytheism and idolatry?



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You're right on....

 

[psalms 91]

As others have pointed out, there is nothing in the New Testament that points to a continued allegiance to a Jewish Sabbath.

You are overlooking the fact that Paul traveled on the Jewish Sabbath, breaking one of the most important Sabbath laws, apparently deliberately. Then, after sundown, it was Sunday on the Jewish calendar. Only then did Paul break bread with the Christians in Troas.

Likewise, you overlook the second question. After we get past the question of why these things happened, there is the question of why Luke thought the day of the week was worth mentioning. He could easily have skipped it. The answer is that Luke wanted everyone to know that Christians no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath but instead were observing Sunday as the normal day to hold communion, the normal day of worship.

As far as Sunday being a day of rest, I have repeatedly pointed out that the Old Testament Sabbath is obviously labor legislation. It is intended to give everyone a day off, including women, servants, slaves and even animals. The command was given before there were any synagogues to attend. One of the strange things about the SDA is that despite their obsession with the Sabbath, they deny its original purpose!


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Jewish Sabbeth? I thought God ordained Sabbeth and instructed the Jews, if so, then we are saying that God made a mistake? Or doesnt care?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As others have pointed out, there is nothing in the New Testament that points to a continued allegiance to a Jewish Sabbath.

You are overlooking the fact that Paul traveled on the Jewish Sabbath, breaking one of the most important Sabbath laws, apparently deliberately. Then, after sundown, it was Sunday on the Jewish calendar. Only then did Paul break bread with the Christians in Troas.

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Jewish Sabbeth? I thought God ordained Sabbeth and instructed the Jews, if so, then we are saying that God made a mistake? Or doesnt care?

How do you and us, under the New Covenant, keep the Sabbath as the un-believing Jews of today keep it? Just curious

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[Cribstyl]

Jewish Sabbeth? I thought God ordained Sabbeth and instructed the Jews, if so, then we are saying that God made a mistake? Or doesnt care?

If gentiles were strangers to the covenants and sabbaths is a sign of the old covenant.....what's wrong with saying Jewish Sabbath? God said hundred of years later: I gave them my sabbaths to be a sign between me and them, not I gave the world my sabbaths as a sign between me and all humanity.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

 

[bugkiller]

Acts 20:7

What makes this meeting one of a kind?

Is that this type of meeting is only mentioned once?

Is it that Paul was preaching?

It is portrayed as a custom for the disciples to meet on the first day of the week. The proximity to the sabbath is of no importance.

The meeting was not said to be a sabbath. I would be very surprised if they called it the sabbath in any way. I have never heard of any source saying such except SDA people. Where does this come from? I would love to see a source.

An interesting thing for me is that it is not pointed out or stated merely a regularly daily affair but points out the first day of the week specifically. Also remember this is not Jerusalem. It is Troas. What was the custom in Troas?

Was Paul celebrating the sabbath with believers or was he preaching in the synagogue as he regularly did? It is noted that the Jews departed. So at best it was a meeting at a Jewish synagogue and not an assembly of Christians.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If gentiles were strangers to the covenants and sabbaths is a sign of the old covenant.....what's wrong with saying Jewish Sabbath? God said hundred of years later: I gave them my sabbaths to be a sign between me and them, not I gave the world my sabbaths as a sign between me and all humanity.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted:
then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Wasn't both the Sabbath and Circumcision "signs"?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089-4/#post53043894
What the sign?

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful
Seven messengers having the seven last blows,
because in these is finished the fury of God,

There's a bit of a tricky problem in the passage. The disciples question is a bit wrong, or I should say based upon wrong assumptions. The disciples are asking Jesus for "the" sign of his coming. They expected that Jesus would be able to affirm for them the single sign they could look for to know Jesus was coming into His kingdom. As was true throughout Jesus' teaching ministry, Jesus proceeds to answer their question on His own tems and gives them many signs which will indicate He is about to return to earth, which is a different scenario than the disciples envisioned, but one which will fulfill the conditions necessary for the disciples expectation for Jesus' coming into His kingdom.

 

[bugkiller]

What does th mia twn sabbatwn refer to if not the first day of the week? It does not refer to the sabbath, one sabbath or even a first sabbath. The text clearly indicates immediately after the sabbath.

bugkiller

 

[mrasell]

You're right on....

The Sabbath is a permanent sign, because it began at the Creation of the world and is still in the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (see Rev. 11:19; Heb. 8:2).

Marc

 

[Cribstyl]

The Sabbath is a permanent sign, because it began at the Creation of the world and is still in the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (see Rev. 11:19; Heb. 8:2).

Marc

Unless heaven is on earth, your response make no sense.
Will there be 6 days of labor in heaven?

 

[sculleywr]

Actually, for the first few decades, the Christians acted as a Jewish sect, attending Temple worship until the Temple was destroyed, then the synagogues, on Saturday. On sunday, they would have their worship and communion service, in honor of the resurrection, which happened on Sunday morning.

It wasn't until the mid-second century that Christians started to not attend synagogue meetings, but they would still have their own services, especially in the evenings, on Saturdays AND Sundays. Saturday was a day of rest and repentance in preparation for the Sunday services, where we celebrate the resurrection.

 

[1234321]

FYI...

Sabbath, and other days of the week are based on the new moon. So, technically the "sabbath" could have happened on a Gregorian Thursday, or Sunday, since the new moon begins the first day of a month. In fact, the Hebrew word for month is "chodesh," which means "new moon."

Likewise, biblical weekly sabbaths occur six days after the new moon, and continually every week until the next new moon (then you begin another count.) It is explicitly stated by God in Exodus 12 (outlining the High Sabbaths.) The last new moon was August 17, 2012 on Gregorian Friday night, which is Hebrew Saturday. So, every Gregorian Friday night to Saturday night until September 16, 2012 on Gregorian Sunday night is the technical sabbath. E.G. Tomorrow night is the technical sabbath.

 

[Dale]

The Sabbath is a permanent sign, because it began at the Creation of the world and is still in the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (see Rev. 11:19; Heb. 8:2).

Marc

Marc,


In Revelation 11:19 we find:
“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.”


However, this must have a symbolic meaning for later we find:


“I did not see a temple in the city [New Jerusalem], because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.”
--Revelation 21:22 NIV


When all is revealed, a temple will not be needed because God is present. It should hardly be surprising that Revelation 11:19 is symbolic, for Revelation is filled with symbolism.




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[Dale]

FYI...

Sabbath, and other days of the week are based on the new moon. So, technically the "sabbath" could have happened on a Gregorian Thursday, or Sunday, since the new moon begins the first day of a month. In fact, the Hebrew word for month is "chodesh," which means "new moon."

Likewise, biblical weekly sabbaths occur six days after the new moon, and continually every week until the next new moon (then you begin another count.) It is explicitly stated by God in Exodus 12 (outlining the High Sabbaths.) The last new moon was August 17, 2012 on Gregorian Friday night, which is Hebrew Saturday. So, every Gregorian Friday night to Saturday night until September 16, 2012 on Gregorian Sunday night is the technical sabbath. E.G. Tomorrow night is the technical sabbath.

Do you have a source for this?


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[Ave Maria]

Here is a very good article from Catholic Answers that addresses this issue:

Sabbath or Sunday? | Catholic Answers

 

[mrasell]

Unless heaven is on earth, your response make no sense.
Will there be 6 days of labor in heaven?

Isaiah speaks of building houses and planting vineyards in the New Earth, also also of worshipping the Lord every Sabbath (Isa. 65:21; 66:22-23)

Marc

 

[mrasell]

Marc,


In Revelation 11:19 we find:
“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.”


However, this must have a symbolic meaning for later we find:


“I did not see a temple in the city [New Jerusalem], because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.”
--Revelation 21:22 NIV


When all is revealed, a temple will not be needed because God is present. It should hardly be surprising that Revelation 11:19 is symbolic, for Revelation is filled with symbolism.

The temple ceases to exist only when the plan of salvation is complete, chronologically Rev. 21 occurs at a later time.

Although symbolism is used, it describes real things in heaven. Jesus is pictured as a slain lamb.

The Hebrew word “tabnit” is used for the pattern which was given to Moses to construct the tabernacle. In most cases a “tabnit” is based upon a real three dimensional object. An example of this is when king Ahaz saw an idolatrous altar in Damascus and wanted a copy of it made at home in the temple precincts, so he got a “pattern” (tabnit) made of the original so that one could be reconstructed at home (2 Kings 16:10). This would suggest that behind the “tabnit” is a real temple in heaven. Because Moses was given a pattern or blueprint for his tabernacle (Exodus 25:9, 40) with two apartments and corresponding furniture, this suggests a similar building exists in heaven.

There are many references to the heavenly temple/sanctuary in the Hebrew Bible (e.g. Psalm 11:4; 2 Sam 22:7; Psalm 18:6; Micah 1:2; Habakkuk 2:20; Psalm 102:19; Psalm 150:1) which suggests that it is a real place.

(from my book, "exploring the heavenly sanctuary")

Marc Rasell

 

[Cribstyl]

Isaiah speaks of building houses and planting vineyards in the New Earth, also also of worshipping the Lord every Sabbath (Isa. 65:21; 66:22-23)

Marc

Those isolated text are often misinterpreted by SDA to seize on words. Anyone who reads ISA 65 know that New Earth is not mentioned. Anyone who read ISA66 can see that God is comparing something to the fact that the new heaven is before Him. These are both last days prophecies.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Dale

On keeping all the Commandments, SDA prophet Ellen White put Sabbath-keeping above all the other Commandments. This comes from her visions and she made no attempt to justify it in any other way.

She made no attempt to explain why the most important Commandment would be fourth. She said that it was the Fourth Commandment, as it is in the King James Bible. She was apparently unaware that Catholics number the Commandments differently.

It is particularly hard to understand how Sabbath-keeping could be more important than "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How could keeping a Sabbath be more important than the prohibition of polytheism and idolatry?


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You're right on....

The Sabbath is a permanent sign, because it began at the Creation of the world and is still in the heavenly temple where Jesus ministers as our High Priest (see Rev. 11:19; Heb. 8:2).

Marc

Don't you mean "Sanctuary"

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
"sanctuary"
occurs 197 times in 186 verses in the YLT

Revelation 15:8 and filled was the Sanctuary with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power,
and no one was able to enter into the Sanctuary till the seven blows/stripes of the seven messengers may be finished.

Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

 

[bugkiller]

Very interesting that the word for month is actually new moon.

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

Isaiah speaks of building houses and planting vineyards in the New Earth, also also of worshipping the Lord every Sabbath (Isa. 65:21; 66:22-23)

Marc

Truth is; Isa 66 is talking about weekly and monthly worship not sabbathkeeping. Why does SDA leave out the monthly worship in their comments? Answer: SDA only see the 7th day sabbath as eternal, they claim that the monthly sabbath is ceromonial.