Discussion Vegan, Vegetarian or meat and vegetables

[Frogster]

There's nothing in the Bible that prohibits eating clean meat and it can be argued that the most ethical diet includes some meat based on the number of animal deaths, but factory farming is abhorrent.

Hi Bro, Jesus told Paul ("by the Lord") the meat is all clean in Rom 14:14, so we have no restrictions from the code as far as clean or unclean meats, thanks, froggy.

 

[Alithis]

Hi Bro, Jesus told Paul ("by the Lord") the meat is all clean in Rom 14:14, so we have no restrictions from the code as far as clean or unclean meats, thanks, froggy.

wasn't it peter? ...first i mean

any ways, there is no restriction. but it is interesting what we now know about foods that were in past times forbidden (or classed as unclean )
ie -pork in hot climates must be prepared carefully and well or it can make you all kinds of sick
a lot of sea crustaceans feed of waste
most of the forbidden foods were ,it seem,s of low or negative health benefit

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I got the impression from the Psalms, especially 119 that it was a delight to obey God's law.

That is correct Even Paul wrote that he desired to keep God's laws but as with all humans our flesh struggles with it. He wrote that we overcome what the flesh desires with the help of the Lord Jesus Christ. We don't have to be slaves to our flesh anymore and do what it requires. We are free to do what God has given us for a happy and productive life serving Him.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Servant68]

My sister is vegetarian and one of the Godliest people I know... Her abstinence from meat is health based and not spiritually based.

That being said; she looks like she needs a sammich... Too stringy, LoL. I eat everything, and too much of it. I have a freezer full of venison from a deer I shot last year and it is the best venison I've ever had and one of the healthiest choices in meat.

 

[Frogster]

wasn't it peter? ...first i mean

any ways, there is no restriction. but it is interesting what we now know about foods that were in past times forbidden (or classed as unclean )
ie -pork in hot climates must be prepared carefully and well or it can make you all kinds of sick
a lot of sea crustaceans feed of waste
most of the forbidden foods were ,it seem,s of low or negative health benefit

seems to be Peter, but actually the Lord might have shown Paul that truth before Peter, as Paul received the gospel by revelation.

Lobster has selenium, a trace element, shrimp have protein. Same with all animal foods, preparation is important, that is why when people eat raw Salmon or sushi, they can get parasites, even though salmon is a healthy popular fish to eat.

 

[Frogster]

That is correct Even Paul wrote that he desired to keep God's laws but as with all humans our flesh struggles with it. He wrote that we overcome what the flesh desires with the help of the Lord Jesus Christ. We don't have to be slaves to our flesh anymore and do what it requires. We are free to do what God has given us for a happy and productive life serving Him.

Well since this thread mentions the use of scripture in the op...Even the Jewish Christians in Antioch were living as gentiles as recorded in Gal 2, and the issue was about food, so they were not following the food code in Antioch.

 

[Frogster]

Here is scripture about meats foods, etc.



It doesn’t matter about what we eat before God.

1 Cor 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.

The kingdom of God, is NOT about foods.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.



This..The LORD showed Paul, other than for the weak conscience Jewish person, who does not know better. Verse 14:20 says it is clean also.

Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean


Peter was eating Gentile unclean food.

Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.

Corinth sold the unclean idol meat, strangled meat, that had blood in it. Paul said eat it.

1 Cor 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.



QUOTING A PSALM HERE, to confirm his point about eating, after he said eat all in the pagan markets of Corinth...in chapter 10.

1 Cor 10:26 For "the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof."


What kind of food would a Corinthian pagan serve? Paul said it eat, other than for their weak conscience, a different issue, but he said eat it, knowing it was idol food.


1 Cor 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.


Doctrine of demons, = food abstinence.

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.


Peter ate unclean gentile food after the sheet event.

Acts 11:3Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.

Philippi had so few Jews, that there was not even a synagogue there,let alone a Jewish butcher, yet Paul stayed with Gentile Lydia. Did he not eat their food, while being a guest there? The Roman guard in Acts 16, proves the same point, he fed Paul meat, it was not Kosher meat.

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Paul ate the unclean meat of a Roman guard.


Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.



How could Paul and Barnabas, preach and live with their Gentile converts, and the alienate them, by declaring them unclean, because of Mosaic food laws? That would be the very thing, Paul rebuked Peter for doing in Antioch, recorded in Galatians 2.

And of course....of course...Mark 7:19, Jesus declared all foods clean! That is an Aramaic Bible I used there too.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Mark 7:19“Because it does not enter his heart, but his belly, and is discharged by excretion, which purifies all foods.”


1 Cor 8..eating non Kosher, unclean meat, and meat that had blood, and strangled idol temple food was allowed, so long as stumbling was not going on.

The last word in Gen 9, had no restrictions. But Christians go be the expanding NT revelation anyway, that which I posted, even if we did not have Gen 9, the NT revelation clearly ended food restrictions.

Gen 9:2 The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I was raised vegetarian, I don't think it's healthy. I had a B12 and B6 deficiency.
Still don't really like the taste of it.
I sometimes eat some fish.

Don't like the taste of what?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Which is more scriptural?

I don't think there is anything more scriptural or non scriptural. In Bible days they ate meat but not nearly as much as we do now. Overeating is in the scriptures but we're told to not be gluttons. Now some people assume that because a person is overweight that they are gluttons, but that is not true. At McDonalds you can buy a hamburger for $1.00 but a salad costs over $4.00. The same at the supermarket, it's cheaper to buy canned veggies instead of fresh but the canned has more salt in it than needed for the average person on a daily basis. The same is with the boxed food, although it's less expensive to buy a bag of pasta instead of the meal in a box. People want the quick and easy. Even thin people can be gluttons. Vegetarians can be overweight and/or sickly due to not watching what they are taking in and getting the necessary vitamins and nutrients needed on a daily basis. Too much meat and/or meat full of steroids causes sickness too. Scriptural would be to eat to live, not live to eat.

 

[Alithis]

seems to be Peter, but actually the Lord might have shown Paul that truth before Peter, as Paul received the gospel by revelation.

Lobster has selenium, a trace element, shrimp have protein. Same with all animal foods, preparation is important, that is why when people eat raw Salmon or sushi, they can get parasites, even though salmon is a healthy popular fish to eat.

oh yep.. all foods animals etc have things in them that are good for us .. i was just observing that it is of interest that the foods israel was allowed to eat were all of a higher calibre of healthiness ... also its known that animals of prey are not good eating and scavengers are not good eating ,generally speaking

 

[Alithis]

I don't think there is anything more scriptural or non scriptural. In Bible days they ate meat but not nearly as much as we do now. Overeating is in the scriptures but we're told to not be gluttons. Now some people assume that because a person is overweight that they are gluttons, but that is not true. At McDonalds you can buy a hamburger for $1.00 but a salad costs over $4.00. The same at the supermarket, it's cheaper to buy canned veggies instead of fresh but the canned has more salt in it than needed for the average person on a daily basis. The same is with the boxed food, although it's less expensive to buy a bag of pasta instead of the meal in a box. People want the quick and easy. Even thin people can be gluttons. Vegetarians can be overweight and/or sickly due to not watching what they are taking in and getting the necessary vitamins and nutrients needed on a daily basis. Too much meat and/or meat full of steroids causes sickness too. Scriptural would be to eat to live, not live to eat.

yikes ..you may have to start a thread on the topic of obesity ..i've heard all the excuses .. but no one but no one raises their hand to their mouth but themselves .
and yes ... our society has provided for us the means to get fat and sick and dead .. and has done so for profit $$$$$ .but then too many folks refuse to see that the world is influenced by the spirit of the world and is hell bent on the destruction of the sons of men .
We need not anymore walk in the mindset of the world we can walk in listen to and obey the Holy Spirit and we wont be obese ..(my profile photo is me recently ..one day i'll get brave and put up my before shot haha)
this one i can testify of .as it was in just such obedience to the holy Spirit that i lost plenty of 20 kg in 2.5 mnths effortlessly .
by how much i ate ...?? well a little, but mostly .. he changed WHAT I ATE ... and that!!! is interesting .

 

[Frogster]

oh yep.. all foods animals etc have things in them that are good for us .. i was just observing that it is of interest that the foods israel was allowed to eat were all of a higher calibre of healthiness ... also its known that animals of prey are not good eating and scavengers are not good eating ,generally speaking

Greetings, well as far as healthy, if you took down all the proteins under a microscope, there is not that much difference with chicken, pork, lobster, lamb, catfish, etc.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

yikes ..you may have to start a thread on the topic of obesity ..i've heard all the excuses .. but no one but no one raises their hand to their mouth but themselves .
and yes ... our society has provided for us the means to get fat and sick and dead .. and has done so for profit $$$$$ .but then too many folks refuse to see that the world is influenced by the spirit of the world and is hell bent on the destruction of the sons of men .
We need not anymore walk in the mindset of the world we can walk in listen to and obey the Holy Spirit and we wont be obese ..(my profile photo is me recently ..one day i'll get brave and put up my before shot haha)
this one i can testify of .as it was in just such obedience to the holy Spirit that i lost plenty of 20 kg in 2.5 mnths effortlessly .
by how much i ate ...?? well a little, but mostly .. he changed WHAT I ATE ... and that!!! is interesting .

Well, it's taken me a whole lot longer to lose 71 and I still have more to go But I decided that since I'm not rich and cannot buy all organic, etc., that I would just do what I could as the Lord showed me. I suppose I could have done better but I am content where I'm at right now....still losing but very slowly and I have not heard the Lord getting onto me about it.

Now, I also have an inactive thyroid, so I'm actually impressed with myself that I've lost 71 lbs with an inactive thyroid. The drs. have me on some thyroid meds along with some other meds for other issues so I'm not sure yet if the meds are speeding the thyroid up or not...I go to the dr again next week. I've also made a few changes such as, instead of butter I use coconut oil. I've replaced butter with it in several recipes and there is hardly a noticeable taste difference. I use butter sometimes (never the fake stuff) but rarely. I use olive oil a lot too. Little things, but over the long haul, there is a difference. I've strayed away from this a bit lately and I need/want to get back to it.

Too, money is a real issue. When I was in a lot tighter spot financially, after paying the bills I may have had $30 for the next two weeks for groceries. I ate a lot of potatoes; fried, baked, mashed, soup, etc.. Potatoes are ok but too many is not good. But I saw that I did not have much choice. I ate a lot of cheap tv dinners too. All unhealthy but affordable at the time. Even the few times I've gone to the Food Pantry, very little meat or real stuff is given (not complaining, just pointing it out); cakes, candy, boxed, canned, etc.. I'm grateful that it was available though. Anyway, even if we don't eat much, if what we're eating is unhealthy, we are still unhealthy, sick, and generally overweight. Although, there are a few it seems who are able to escape that and remain thin...but still not healthy.

 

[Alithis]

Well, it's taken me a whole lot longer to lose 71 and I still have more to go But I decided that since I'm not rich and cannot buy all organic, etc., that I would just do what I could as the Lord showed me. I suppose I could have done better but I am content where I'm at right now....still losing but very slowly and I have not heard the Lord getting onto me about it.

Now, I also have an inactive thyroid, so I'm actually impressed with myself that I've lost 71 lbs with an inactive thyroid. The drs. have me on some thyroid meds along with some other meds for other issues so I'm not sure yet if the meds are speeding the thyroid up or not...I go to the dr again next week. I've also made a few changes such as, instead of butter I use coconut oil. I've replaced butter with it in several recipes and there is hardly a noticeable taste difference. I use butter sometimes (never the fake stuff) but rarely. I use olive oil a lot too. Little things, but over the long haul, there is a difference. I've strayed away from this a bit lately and I need/want to get back to it.

wow thats about 31kg thats awsome ...
yeh i was not super oversize so to speak but health wise i took such a speed dive .
i really called on the lord for help .. and help me he did .. and continues to .he led me into juicing (green veggie juice and green apple) and to cut ALL processed sugar from my diet.. im still sugar free and i juice when i can ..miss it if i dont .. im amazed at how quickly my body became accustomed to so little food and my only snack food is mixed nuts (NOT salted ) .. you know the ones mixed with almond and dried cranberries .. i can eat them by the heap and it does nothing to my weight and umm err .. keeps things moving lol. BP improved massively as of curse did my general health all round. praise God .
i give him all credit because before i prayed and asked him for the wisdom to lose weight ..absolutely nothing had world for years i just slowly got bigger and unhealthier ..so all the Glory is Gods ..i called unto the lord and he answered me .. this is yet another reason i say.. we must listen to him AND obey him to benefit from his grace

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

wow thats about 31kg thats awsome ...
yeh i was not super oversize so to speak but health wise i took such a speed dive .
i really called on the lord for help .. and help me he did .. and continues to .he led me into juicing (green veggie juice and green apple) and to cut ALL processed sugar from my diet.. im still sugar free and i juice when i can ..miss it if i dont .. im amazed at how quickly my body became accustomed to so little food and my only snack food is mixed nuts (NOT salted ) .. you know the ones mixed with almond and dried cranberries .. i can eat them by the heap and it does nothing to my weight and umm err .. keeps things moving lol. BP improved massively as of curse did my general health all round. praise God .
i give him all credit because before i prayed and asked him for the wisdom to lose weight ..absolutely nothing had world for years i just slowly got bigger and unhealthier ..so all the Glory is Gods ..i called unto the lord and he answered me .. this is yet another reason i say.. we must listen to him AND obey him to benefit from his grace

I did the same thing. I asked God to show me what I could do with the limited income I had/have. A few months ago I took a face dive into the pavement and kinda got sidetracked and off the path but I'm now working my way back. I enjoy nuts without salt now...I like cashews mixed with raisins. While working one night and I had not brought any food with me, I was getting hungry so I stopped a convenience store. The only thing that seemed ok was a small bag of mixed nuts. I put them into my mouth and about gagged on the salt. I could not finish them. My blood sugar is too high so I'm trying to avoid bread, pasta, and sugar. It's near impossible to get anything without sugar. Everything has sugar. Yuk. Yes, obeying is important