Vatican sides with Fr. Frank Pavone in appeal of suspension; Amarillo bishop to...

benedictaoo

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We weren't talking about Corapi--we were talking about Fr. Pavone. I had said that Fr. Pavone's case happened about the time we were discussing the Corapi case.

The Vatican said that Father Pavone has done nothing wrong.

Someone mentioned Corapi and made a comparison and I think it was you.. that just like Corapi being accused, as if the accusation that he was a womanizing drug addict, running a scam on the hard core types, was not proven to be true. I think his own action proves the accusations were true.

As far a Fr. Pavone goes, the Church in no way will ever tell us if he did wrong or not. It is up to us to judge that.

The bishops have the jurisdiction over him and that is all the Vatican said. They threw it back to the bishops, just like they always do, whether it be Corapi, child abuse, or this.

So it is up to us to judge because the Church will never be forthcoming in ANY situation, its up to us to judge if the bishop is a lier or is Pavone?

Point is and why the joke is still on you, as it was with Corapi, either way it goes, "the Church" has a problem because either a priest is not living up to his high standard or a bishop isn't. and if the bishop is lieing on him, guess what? you as a good catholic is to take the bishops side as if he was God.

We still have a crisis here and its the same old MO. The Vatican will not do whet they need to to get the one who is doing damage, out.
 
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Root of Jesse

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How was he powerless? Obedience to his superiors was an option, he elected a different path.
There, I have to agree with you. Maybe I should have said he felt he was powerless (then again, so did Judas, apparently).
 
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Root of Jesse

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what ever is right but you people have got to get tho the place where you realize that this A) destroys the Church's credibility and B) it leads people away from the Church.

Its NOT OKAY! it does damage to people's faith.
So does hardness of heart. Who said it was ok?
and we are NOT doing what Christ commanded us and that is evangelize and we WILL answer to that.

so "what ever" it all you like, your indifference will come back to haunt you. You do bare some of the brunt by the defense of these ridiculous priest and making excuses and justifications.
It's an 'excuse' to admit that we're all human and sinners??? I don't bare the brunt of any of it. But it is a sin to continually bring up his faults and apparent sins, too.
We are the salt of the earth and we are not flavoring it up right now and that is 100% our fault that the world goes unevangelized. We have the greater sin then what these creeps are doing. so get a clue and watch how you come off to other people when you defend these creeps.
But when he was 'in good standing' apparently, were you with him or not? HE was out there evangelizing. HE was out there getting the point across. HE might have messed up, and it's a pretty simple thing to mend that.
and the only reason why your types liked Corapi is because he was an ass to the "heretics", "liberal", and anyone else you feel you have a right to attack and that is not the truth. He did not tell the truth or witness to the truth. he just attacked people YOU did not think were good enough.

He played you hard core types to make him $$, you who thinks Christianity is about condemning people who do not live up to your arbitrary standard as if you hard core types are God.
See? When someone is out there evangelizing and preaching the truth, you call him an ass. He didn't attack any person. He attacked deeds. So let's just tell the truth-he didn't preach your flavor of Catholicism, so he's a fraud. Let me tell you something-we're all frauds. We all have faults and try to make ourselves look good. Well, if he's a fraud, but teaches the truth, does that taint the message? I don't think so.
Look, I know he went about the whole debacle the wrong way, and I fault him for his faults. But I don't pretend to be his Judge.
Someone mentioned Corapi and made a comparison and I think it was you.. that just like Corapi being accused, as if the accusation that he was a womanizing drug addict, running a scam on the hard core types, was not proven to be true. I think his own action proves the accusations were true.
All of this is slander, unless you, yourself have proof. None of this has been proven. But even if he did sleep with a woman and take pain killers, who are you to judge 'the hard core types'??? Who are 'they'?
 
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Root of Jesse

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Someone mentioned Corapi and made a comparison and I think it was you.. that just like Corapi being accused, as if the accusation that he was a womanizing drug addict, running a scam on the hard core types, was not proven to be true. I think his own action proves the accusations were true.

As far a Fr. Pavone goes, the Church in no way will ever tell us if he did wrong or not. It is up to us to judge that.
it absolutely is not up to us to judge that.
The bishops have the jurisdiction over him and that is all the Vatican said. They threw it back to the bishops, just like they always do, whether it be Corapi, child abuse, or this.

So it is up to us to judge because the Church will never be forthcoming in ANY situation, its up to us to judge if the bishop is a lier or is Pavone?
Again, it is not up to us to judge, and it is your assumption that the Church is not being as forthcoming as they should be.
Point is and why the joke is still on you, as it was with Corapi, either way it goes, "the Church" has a problem because either a priest is not living up to his high standard or a bishop isn't. and if the bishop is lieing on him, guess what? you as a good catholic is to take the bishops side as if he was God.
??? I wonder why is it any of our business? For us, what the Church is there for, is to teach us how to live our faith better, regardless of what they do personally. Unless there's an abuse of you personally, you have no right to know a lot of details.
We still have a crisis here and its the same old MO. The Vatican will not do whet they need to to get the one who is doing damage, out.
Do you think they should fire them??? What penalty would satisfy you? I know--let's convict all priests of being sinners! Like the rest of us.

Look, I do not tolerate abuse in priests. If I see it, I do something about it. I've turned a priest in for frequenting gambling places and borrowing money from parishioners (I put two and two together and gave the facts to the diocese, they took direct action.), and another for another misconduct. I don't hold any grudge against either of them, and I don't hold grudges against those nationally known priests who are in some sort of trouble. One admitted his wrong publicly, and has disappeared from the scene. One has admitted nothing, when fessing up and submitting would seem to be the best thing to do, if he did anything at all, and disappeared. Father Frank is actually doing some new shows on EWTN this fall, so he has apparently gotten everything in order. I admire him for doing what he promised to do.
The trick is to not hold any priest, or anyone, for that matter, on too high a pedestal. We're all human, we all make mistakes, we're all wrong at one time or another.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Uhh, no, they do.



Uhh, no, they do.



Are you arguing that the fallacy of Appeal to Emotion only exists in false statements? I've never heard that. Please clarify your statement and include sources. Thanks!



I'm sorry, I have little patience for slippery slope arguments or red herrings, and it seems you're opting for a cute hybrid here.

Photos of the Holocaust were useful as evidence, they might even be necessary in some circles as textbook proof that the Holocaust happened. It is not appropriate to walk along a public street carrying a poster of an aborted child unless it is also appropriate to carry the same type of image of a victim of a brutal rape (if the public doesn't see how torn up the genitals are, how can they know how bad it is?) or the innocent victim of one of our own bombs (who could oppose a profitable war without actually seeing a mother cry as her child draws it's last breath?), etc.

Being of sound mind, I understand why killing the unborn, the Jewish, the mentally [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], the wrong-colored, the wrong-genderd, etc is wrong. My brain works. I don't need your illustrations, and I don't respect the feeble minds that do.
Do you think life is robotic?
Do you think emotion does not involve every instance of life?

Here's the thing - your posts and put downs to everyone who differs shows emotions - not always charitable ones - but they show emotion.

Just saying...

And God seeks emotion - love and all that it involves. He doesnt ask we use sterile reasoning especially in EmOTiOnAl circumstances.:|:sick:
 
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WarriorAngel

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it absolutely is not up to us to judge that.
Again, it is not up to us to judge, and it is your assumption that the Church is not being as forthcoming as they should be.
??? I wonder why is it any of our business? For us, what the Church is there for, is to teach us how to live our faith better, regardless of what they do personally. Unless there's an abuse of you personally, you have no right to know a lot of details.

Do you think they should fire them??? What penalty would satisfy you? I know--let's convict all priests of being sinners! Like the rest of us.

Look, I do not tolerate abuse in priests. If I see it, I do something about it. I've turned a priest in for frequenting gambling places and borrowing money from parishioners (I put two and two together and gave the facts to the diocese, they took direct action.), and another for another misconduct. I don't hold any grudge against either of them, and I don't hold grudges against those nationally known priests who are in some sort of trouble. One admitted his wrong publicly, and has disappeared from the scene. One has admitted nothing, when fessing up and submitting would seem to be the best thing to do, if he did anything at all, and disappeared. Father Frank is actually doing some new shows on EWTN this fall, so he has apparently gotten everything in order. I admire him for doing what he promised to do.
The trick is to not hold any priest, or anyone, for that matter, on too high a pedestal. We're all human, we all make mistakes, we're all wrong at one time or another.
I agree - we are not judges - we can act on helping them - reporting them - but never judging them.

And for some - forgiveness is a cold day in the abyss.
 
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AMDG

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Someone mentioned Corapi and made a comparison and I think it was you..

Nope. I never made a comparison. You must have read too quickly if you thought so.

This is what I said in post #11:

Read it Michie and remember when it first happened. I believe it was back at the time that there was talk about what happened with Fr. Corapi. And of course, there was talk about disobedience of priests.

At the time, if I can remember, took exception at Father Pavone's pro-life ministry and in effect "grounded him". Father Pavone obeyed the grounding, but said that he didn't do anything wrong and said he would appeal to the Vatican. Evidently he did, and the Vatican agreed that he was not suspended nor ever was suspended from the priesthood. Bishop Zucker seems to be saying the same thing and adding that Father Pavone will be allowed to continue his pro-life ministry only under his (the Bishop's) authority. No disobedience.

That's what I got out of it. Am I even close to being right?

This thread was *always* about Fr. Pavone and *never* about Corapi.
 
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benedictaoo

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So does hardness of heart. Who said it was ok? It's an 'excuse' to admit that we're all human and sinners??? I don't bare the brunt of any of it. But it is a sin to continually bring up his faults and apparent sins, too. But when he was 'in good standing' apparently, were you with him or not? HE was out there evangelizing. HE was out there getting the point across. HE might have messed up, and it's a pretty simple thing to mend that.
See? When someone is out there evangelizing and preaching the truth, you call him an ass. He didn't attack any person. He attacked deeds. So let's just tell the truth-he didn't preach your flavor of Catholicism, so he's a fraud. Let me tell you something-we're all frauds. We all have faults and try to make ourselves look good. Well, if he's a fraud, but teaches the truth, does that taint the message? I don't think so.
Look, I know he went about the whole debacle the wrong way, and I fault him for his faults. But I don't pretend to be his Judge.
All of this is slander, unless you, yourself have proof. None of this has been proven. But even if he did sleep with a woman and take pain killers, who are you to judge 'the hard core types'??? Who are 'they'?

LOL. Keep talking, using both sides of you're mouth... still defending Corapi... He left the priesthood. and the Church. keep defending what can't be defended.

you still have a problem on your hands because if Pavone and Corapi are wonderful and great- (At least Pavone is obedient) then the bishops are dogs... this is a lose, lose for everyone and its funny that y'all don't comprehend this.
 
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benedictaoo

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This thread was *always* about Fr. Pavone and *never* about Corapi.

well, if Fr. Pavone is innocent and priest for life is great... then what does this make the bishop?

and what does this make the Vatican for not being forthcoming and just saying what is?
 
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benedictaoo

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I agree - we are not judges - we can act on helping them - reporting them - but never judging them.

And for some - forgiveness is a cold day in the abyss.

We're not judges but you can fry a murderer in the electric chair and call it charity...

I'm trying to point out all the irony. If Fr. Pavone is awesome (which he might be, I don't know enough to say one way or the other) that means a bishop is trying to shut him down... and the Vatican won;t come out and say if that is what he's trying to do or not.

and the irony is we can't judge but forgive? Not if they are Catholic clerics... then we can judge them and fry them to death, even though the Church is clearly against that.
 
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Root of Jesse

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LOL. Keep talking, using both sides of you're mouth... still defending Corapi... He left the priesthood. and the Church. keep defending what can't be defended.

you still have a problem on your hands because if Pavone and Corapi are wonderful and great- (At least Pavone is obedient) then the bishops are dogs... this is a lose, lose for everyone and its funny that y'all don't comprehend this.

I guess you don't realize that once a priest, always a priest. A priest, once ordained, really doesn't have the power to leave. God lets him do it, but he's still a priest.

I love the way you read. In what way did I defend him? I convicted him of being just like you. But I didn't judge him. Like I don't judge your heart either. That's what I'm talking about-you judging others hearts, with a hard one inside yourself.

Well, I don't have any problem on my hands, and neither does the Church. Have you never heard of heretical bishops? They do exist, you know. But the point is that, unless you have ALL the facts, you cannot be the judge, in either case. And that's the Church's stance-on both. The Church follows her own counsel and let's God be God. You find fault with that?
 
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Root of Jesse

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LOL. Keep talking, using both sides of you're mouth... still defending Corapi... He left the priesthood. and the Church. keep defending what can't be defended.

you still have a problem on your hands because if Pavone and Corapi are wonderful and great- (At least Pavone is obedient) then the bishops are dogs... this is a lose, lose for everyone and its funny that y'all don't comprehend this.
Double post.
 
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KimShaww

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I still can't believe there is so much confusion about this.

The Vatican sided with Father Frank. They have been reviewing the case for months. He is not now nor has he ever been suspended. What the bishop did last fall was terrible to Father Pavone and Priests for Life, and especially to the Pro Life movement, but we must press on and forgive and move forward.
 
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KimShaww

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Though I will say this - what the Bishop did was horrendous. Do you know that several Pro Life Leaders have tried to contact Bishop Zurek and the diocese of Amarillo regarding the Amarillo/Fr. Frank situation? None of these leaders received any answer. Why didn't the bishop answer them? And why did the Bishop never address this situation publicly once he put the smack down on Father Frank? Why has the bishop’s statement restricted the pro life work of Father Frank?
Could it be… that Bishop Zurek is against Pro Life work? He doesn’t respond to the leaders, he’s restricting Fr. Frank’s pro life work… doesn’t all pro life work have merit? Does Bishop Zurek not like the work of the pro life movement????
Food for thought.
 
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