Vatican sides with Fr. Frank Pavone in appeal of suspension; Amarillo bishop to...

MikeK

Traditionalist Catholic
Feb 4, 2004
32,104
5,649
Wisconsin
✟90,821.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Children don't get mutilated in Combat ?

Uhh, no, they do.

Children don't get mutilated in abortion ?

Uhh, no, they do.

It is not an appeal to motion when it is the truth.

Are you arguing that the fallacy of Appeal to Emotion only exists in false statements? I've never heard that. Please clarify your statement and include sources. Thanks!

I guess we should ban all those photos from the holocaust in Germany and the genocide in Cambodia. Wouldn't want to appeal to anyone's emotions.

I'm sorry, I have little patience for slippery slope arguments or red herrings, and it seems you're opting for a cute hybrid here.

Photos of the Holocaust were useful as evidence, they might even be necessary in some circles as textbook proof that the Holocaust happened. It is not appropriate to walk along a public street carrying a poster of an aborted child unless it is also appropriate to carry the same type of image of a victim of a brutal rape (if the public doesn't see how torn up the genitals are, how can they know how bad it is?) or the innocent victim of one of our own bombs (who could oppose a profitable war without actually seeing a mother cry as her child draws it's last breath?), etc.

Being of sound mind, I understand why killing the unborn, the Jewish, the mentally [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], the wrong-colored, the wrong-genderd, etc is wrong. My brain works. I don't need your illustrations, and I don't respect the feeble minds that do.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

StThomasMore

Christian Democrat
Feb 27, 2011
1,584
95
✟17,251.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
No. His bishop is just putting up road blocks and obstacles to essentially impede or totally destroy his ministry. His so-called, 'case by case basis' is Modern Double-speak for 'I will thwart you at every angle until you give up this "pro-life ministry" of yours of which I do not approve'. Since the Vatican has ruled on Pavone's side, the bishop knows that he cannot openly oppose Rome on this issue. However, behind the scenes, he'll do all that he can to frustrate or cause the good Father to abandon his diocese or otherwise force him to be incardinated elsewhere. It's politicking 101. When Libs see a 'conservative' [read: orthodox] priest, this is what they do. Try to thwart anyway they can any success or full operation of their ministry. They know that folks will abandon their Liberal parishes and liberal works for the conservative priests and causes. Hence, any way to keep them from that which is orthodox and to keep them in the dark and remaining in Liberalism.


What is known about Bishop Patrick Zurek? I rarely hear anything about him or that name. Does he have a secret hidden agenda? Why would a bishop want to impede a pro-life ministry?
 
Upvote 0

StThomasMore

Christian Democrat
Feb 27, 2011
1,584
95
✟17,251.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Wow, two new posters in one day to come talk about Father Pavone! Awesome! Welcome to our little community here!

I wouldn't say I follow his every word, I'd say that I've been to his website and I've heard him on the radio on his commercials. As an active pro-lifer, I checked him out years ago, thinking we were on the same team. I was wrong.

I don't support Father Pavone's lies or Planned Parenthood's lies, it isn't an either or. I do support the good men and women of the pro-life movement who refrain from emotional appeals and instead win hearts and minds with partience and logic instead of broad-brush statements about their political opponents and intentionally misleading statements. Let Planned Parenthood spew their garbage and their doublespeak. We are right, and we should be above such garbage. Every time a fence-sitter hears "abortion mill", "baby-butcher", etc, it makes us look just a little more like religious nut-jobs and a little less like calm rational people who have it together. I do not believ that Father Pavone's movement has accomplished anything but convincing people we could have won over that we are obnoxious and, well, kinda crazy.

I've tried to have patient calm talks with ardent pro-abortion supporters. It just does not work. In fact trying to reason with them feels more and more like throwing pearls before swine. You just cannot reason with the unreasonable.

Is there any reason why you are so worried about what people might think? Who cares if someone thinks you might be a nut job. Its the core message that counts, not what the crowd thinks.
 
Upvote 0

MikeK

Traditionalist Catholic
Feb 4, 2004
32,104
5,649
Wisconsin
✟90,821.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Is there any reason why you are so worried about what people might think? Who cares if someone thinks you might be a nut job. Its the core message that counts, not what the crowd thinks.

I don't care what anyone things of the pro-life movement or me in particular except as it relates to the effect it has on our ability to save lives. It is very easy to ignore messages from people you percieve as nutjobs.

Have you ever seen a protester holding a shocking sign and thought to yourself "wow, he really makes a good point, I'll have to reconsider my opinion on that topic" or has it simply galvinized view you already held?

Our arguments should hinge on why abortion is wrong rather than "eww, abortion can be gross". Not only is it probably not the most effective way, it isn't exactly a complete pro-life argument. Let's say a person sees such a sign - it is possible that they will think "wow, look at that chopped up baby. Now I think abortion is wrong."....but I think it's more likely that they will think "Huh, late abortions sure are ugly. If I ever get another abortion I'm gonna get a chemical one , or I'm going to get it in the first 10 weeks, or I'm gonna remember not to look, that stuff is gross."
 
Upvote 0

benedictaoo

Legend
Dec 1, 2007
34,418
7,261
✟72,332.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
A little ambiguous. Why doesn't the Vatican ever speak in clear and unambiguous language. Does the Vatican intend on the language of ambiguity to appease all sides ?

Because they more then likely know he did wrong but don't want us to know it...
 
Upvote 0

benedictaoo

Legend
Dec 1, 2007
34,418
7,261
✟72,332.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I agree, it is starting to seem as if they can't make a clear and concise ruling on anything. I don't even care if I agree, but I would like to know where they stand on a particular issue. It often comes across as lawyer-speak.

Can the Church NOT screw anything up? Now some priest screwed up the Pro Life movement... Lost our creditably yet again...

what can these men not screw up? that's what I want to know and yeah, the devil is behind it... he may be but so what? Its not an excuse.

and look, I see AMDG right on cure, is defending what can't be defended once again.

hey, AMDG, its really not your job to defend them when their actions can not be defended but I understand you are going to do it anyway because you think that is what makes us good Catholics.
 
Upvote 0

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,035.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
No. His bishop is just putting up road blocks and obstacles to essentially impede or totally destroy his ministry. His so-called, 'case by case basis' is Modern Double-speak for 'I will thwart you at every angle until you give up this "pro-life ministry" of yours of which I do not approve'. Since the Vatican has ruled on Pavone's side, the bishop knows that he cannot openly oppose Rome on this issue. However, behind the scenes, he'll do all that he can to frustrate or cause the good Father to abandon his diocese or otherwise force him to be incardinated elsewhere. It's politicking 101. When Libs see a 'conservative' [read: orthodox] priest, this is what they do. Try to thwart anyway they can any success or full operation of their ministry. They know that folks will abandon their Liberal parishes and liberal works for the conservative priests and causes. Hence, any way to keep them from that which is orthodox and to keep them in the dark and remaining in Liberalism.
I'd love for Fr. Frank to join the Fathers of Mercy...But they're a missionary band.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,035.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
ah, himself. don't even go there with Corapi.
or Pavone, or Eitenhauer, or....it's as if you don't trust priests. Why not go with "They are human..."?

As for Corapi, I think he just gave up because he was powerless. I know, you convicted him of having money (horror of horrors), and property. Even if he did sleep with the woman or take pain medication, those aren't criminal acts.

Whatever.
 
Upvote 0

benedictaoo

Legend
Dec 1, 2007
34,418
7,261
✟72,332.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
what ever is right but you people have got to get tho the place where you realize that this A) destroys the Church's credibility and B) it leads people away from the Church.

Its NOT OKAY! it does damage to people's faith.

and we are NOT doing what Christ commanded us and that is evangelize and we WILL answer to that.

so "what ever" it all you like, your indifference will come back to haunt you. You do bare some of the brunt by the defense of these ridiculous priest and making excuses and justifications.

We are the salt of the earth and we are not flavoring it up right now and that is 100% our fault that the world goes unevangelized. We have the greater sin then what these creeps are doing. so get a clue and watch how you come off to other people when you defend these creeps.

and the only reason why your types liked Corapi is because he was an ass to the "heretics", "liberal", and anyone else you feel you have a right to attack and that is not the truth. He did not tell the truth or witness to the truth. he just attacked people YOU did not think were good enough.

He played you hard core types to make him $$, you who thinks Christianity is about condemning people who do not live up to your arbitrary standard as if you hard core types are God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

MikeK

Traditionalist Catholic
Feb 4, 2004
32,104
5,649
Wisconsin
✟90,821.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
or Pavone, or Eitenhauer, or....it's as if you don't trust priests. Why not go with "They are human..."?

As for Corapi, I think he just gave up because he was powerless. I know, you convicted him of having money (horror of horrors), and property. Even if he did sleep with the woman or take pain medication, those aren't criminal acts.

Whatever.

How was he powerless? Obedience to his superiors was an option, he elected a different path.
 
Upvote 0

truthHurts77

Newbie
Oct 19, 2011
1,283
26
✟16,674.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

AMDG

Tenderized for Christ
May 24, 2004
25,362
1,286
74
Pacific Northwest, United States
✟47,022.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
When did the Vatican comment on Corapi?

We weren't talking about Corapi--we were talking about Fr. Pavone. I had said that Fr. Pavone's case happened about the time we were discussing the Corapi case.

The Vatican said that Father Pavone has done nothing wrong.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums