Vatican sides with Fr. Frank Pavone in appeal of suspension; Amarillo bishop to...

KimShaww

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:confused:

Seems perfectly clear to me--it's just as Bishop Zucker said, Father Pavone is a priest in good standing *and* will be allowed by the Bishop's discretion to continue in his Pro-Life Ministry.


Right? Why is there so much confusion about this in the blogisphere??:confused:

The Vatican ruled in favor of Father Frank. Unless you want to bring the Cardinal that’s the head of the Congregation in on this debate, nothing will change that fact. You cannot dispute what has come forth from the Vatican, and as none of us have viewed the documentation that the Vatican viewed, we cannot claim to know the ins and outs of their decision making. However, if the Vatican is siding with Father Frank, and it is, they must have reached a conclusion resulting from the extended study of all of the documentation given by Priests for Life, Father Frank, and Bishop Zurek. And if the decision that the Congregation made is good enough for them, it’s good enough for me. :priest:
 
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AMDG

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Why is there so much confusion about this in the blogisphere??:confused:

Have no idea. Everything seems okay to me. Father Pavone didn't do anything wrong. That's what he said and that's what the Vatican said.
 
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KimShaww

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Here's hoping Bishop Zurek keeps very close tabs on Father Pavone so that he is not able to do any more harm to the pro-life cause with his dishonest methods and appeals to emotion.


What harm to the Pro-Life movement are you talking about? What dishonest means? Huuh????:confused: Anyone can see that his work is good and holy! He fought for Terri Shiavo! He fought for Baby Joseph (and won!!) Love this man, and will always support his ministries!!
 
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KimShaww

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Have no idea. Everything seems okay to me. Father Pavone didn't do anything wrong. That's what he said and that's what the Vatican said.


Yup - The Vatican heard Father's appeal and had to have conversed with him, the Bishop, and anyone else involved, as well as had access to all the records and stuff like that you know?

So Praise God Father Pavone is back!! ^_^:clap:
 
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MikeK

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What harm to the Pro-Life movement are you talking about? What dishonest means? Huuh????:confused: Anyone can see that his work is good and holy! He fought for Terri Shiavo! He fought for Baby Joseph (and won!!) Love this man, and will always support his ministries!!

I normally don't resort to "if you don;t know than I'm not going to tell you", but frankly, if you've read his bit, heard him on the radio, or visited the PFL website, you know his schtick. If you've concluded that it is in any wat "good" or "holy", you are probably incapable of seeing him for what he is.
 
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KimShaww

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I normally don't resort to "if you don;t know than I'm not going to tell you", but frankly, if you've read his bit, heard him on the radio, or visited the PFL website, you know his schtick. If you've concluded that it is in any wat "good" or "holy", you are probably incapable of seeing him for what he is.

Quoting the man himself:
"Morally speaking, furthermore, it is never right to directly kill an innocent person, even if good results are foreseen. We do not say that a baby's life is more important than the mother's. We do say that they are equal. You may never directly kill either one of them."

"Abortion is not just a sin against life. It is a sin against hope... Not only is that mother called to trust, but it is you and I who are called to encourage her."

“The world judges the value of human life by physical perfection, but God sees things differently. To Him, we are perfectly lovable in our imperfection."

So, I'm confused - what's so bad about this man again? What does he say or do that is so wrong??
 
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MikeK

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Thank you for confirming what I already suspected about you.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-life. There is everything wrong with intentionally misrepresenting the positions or statements of your opponents which is something Father Pavone takes part in as a matter of routine in his radio ads featured on Relevant Radio. There is something wrong with walking the streets hoisting placards of mutilated corpses (see the PFL website to get yours for printing!) - it's just as wrong when war protesters pull out pictures of children's decapitated heads in their protests, and there is absolutely something wrong with a Catholic Priest playing Constitutional schollar like he did with his message today “The Supreme Court today officially declared that our current government pays no heed to the Constitution. Neither the President, nor Congress, nor the Supreme Court appears willing to protect life or liberty."

Read the headlines on the PFL website. Conjecture, subtle digs, lies by ommison. It's the same sort of garbage you see on secular websites.


Quoting the man himself:
"Morally speaking, furthermore, it is never right to directly kill an innocent person, even if good results are foreseen. We do not say that a baby's life is more important than the mother's. We do say that they are equal. You may never directly kill either one of them."

"Abortion is not just a sin against life. It is a sin against hope... Not only is that mother called to trust, but it is you and I who are called to encourage her."

“The world judges the value of human life by physical perfection, but God sees things differently. To Him, we are perfectly lovable in our imperfection."

So, I'm confused - what's so bad about this man again? What does he say or do that is so wrong??
 
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MC West

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For someone who seems to dislike Fr Frank so much you seem to be following his every word. I know that if someone bothered me so much I wouldnt be on their websites or listening to their radio shows. Seems to me your just trying to find something to complain about. Your reasonings behind your madness make no sense. Fr Frank dedicates his life to abolishing abortion and hes not lieing to anyone, exactly why he's not afraid to show people pictures of mutilated unborn babies. I agree with graphic images, it shows people that the "fetus" is infact a baby, see the fingers, the hands, the nose. Planned Parent hood is the one selling lies.
 
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KimShaww

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If Father Frank misrepresents his opponents, he would not have befriended those like Norma McCorvy, Dr Bernard Nathansen, and many other pro aborts who sought healing from him. He knows exactly what the opposition says and represents it accordingly.

As an American Citizen, he has every right to comment on the Constitutionality of something that affects his Congregation. He has the right and the duty to educate himself on something that would so affect people that he watches over.

As for Graphic Images, people don't know what abortion is - they are being lied to about what abortion does and how it kills innocent children. People NEED to see what it is that they support when they support abortions or the pro choice agenda.
 
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MikeK

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Wow, two new posters in one day to come talk about Father Pavone! Awesome! Welcome to our little community here!

I wouldn't say I follow his every word, I'd say that I've been to his website and I've heard him on the radio on his commercials. As an active pro-lifer, I checked him out years ago, thinking we were on the same team. I was wrong.

I don't support Father Pavone's lies or Planned Parenthood's lies, it isn't an either or. I do support the good men and women of the pro-life movement who refrain from emotional appeals and instead win hearts and minds with partience and logic instead of broad-brush statements about their political opponents and intentionally misleading statements. Let Planned Parenthood spew their garbage and their doublespeak. We are right, and we should be above such garbage. Every time a fence-sitter hears "abortion mill", "baby-butcher", etc, it makes us look just a little more like religious nut-jobs and a little less like calm rational people who have it together. I do not believ that Father Pavone's movement has accomplished anything but convincing people we could have won over that we are obnoxious and, well, kinda crazy.
 
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MikeK

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If Father Frank misrepresents his opponents, he would not have befriended those like Norma McCorvy, Dr Bernard Nathansen, and many other pro aborts who sought healing from him. He knows exactly what the opposition says and represents it accordingly.

Godwin time, everybody drink! Hitler must not have hated Jews, because some Jews supported him...right?

As an American Citizen, he has every right to comment on the Constitutionality of something that affects his Congregation. He has the right and the duty to educate himself on something that would so affect people that he watches over.

Yeah, he certainly sounds like an educated man.

As for Graphic Images, people don't know what abortion is - they are being lied to about what abortion does and how it kills innocent children. People NEED to see what it is that they support when they support abortions or the pro choice agenda.


Take that to it's logical conclusion.
 
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KimShaww

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Wow, two new posters in one day to come talk about Father Pavone! Awesome! Welcome to our little community here!

I wouldn't say I follow his every word, I'd say that I've been to his website and I've heard him on the radio on his commercials. As an active pro-lifer, I checked him out years ago, thinking we were on the same team. I was wrong.

I don't support Father Pavone's lies or Planned Parenthood's lies, it isn't an either or. I do support the good men and women of the pro-life movement who refrain from emotional appeals and instead win hearts and minds with partience and logic instead of broad-brush statements about their political opponents and intentionally misleading statements. Let Planned Parenthood spew their garbage and their doublespeak. We are right, and we should be above such garbage. Every time a fence-sitter hears "abortion mill", "baby-butcher", etc, it makes us look just a little more like religious nut-jobs and a little less like calm rational people who have it together. I do not believ that Father Pavone's movement has accomplished anything but convincing people we could have won over that we are obnoxious and, well, kinda crazy.


I still don't understand how you think Father Pavone is not a good pro life leader. He is very rooted in the Catholic Faith and speaks the truth. I find his radio shows very informative, and it has brought be closer to my faith and spurred me in my actions (as small as they are) in the pro life movement.

Abortionists ARE baby-butchers; he's just calling a spade a spade. What is crazy or obnoxious is the fact that the abortion industry and the pro choice movement have been able to infiltrate society with it's evils, and because now society is so rooted in the concept that sex sells, abortion is a perfectly acceptable choice, and every teen has to be on birth control so that they can have promiscuous sex, that sometimes it takes something so shocking as the graphic pictures to wake us up. What is graphic is not what the pictures are themselves, but the reality that they depict. If these pictures are too shocking to show, than maybe there's something wrong with abortion after all!! Nothing could be more relevant to the discussion of abortion that to show it for its true colors!
 
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KimShaww

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Godwin time, everybody drink! Hitler must not have hated Jews, because some Jews supported him...right?

Comparing Father Frank to Hitler? That seems a little uncalled for. I don't remember Father Frank destroying a Catholic nation, executing and persecuting Jews, Catholics, gays, etc.

If someone takes the effort to befriend members of the opposition in order to better understand the opposition, we should applaud their efforts to reach out to the other side. That's all I meant to say.

Yeah, he certainly sounds like an educated man.

You know, you hem and haw about Father Frank but don't really explain why - other than the fact that you think he misrepresents the opposition and appeals to emotions. What's wrong with appealing to peoples emotions? As a society I think we've deadened our emotions to the good things in live - love, happiness, true sexuality (not this promiscuity), etc.



Take that to it's logical conclusion.

My guess is you are implying that I need to see the man for who he really is? I'm not claiming he's the messiah. I'm not claiming he's Christ. But I do believe in my heart of hearts that he is taking the pro-life movement in a direction that few people ever get the chance to, and is making waves in the world.
 
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MikeK

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Comparing Father Frank to Hitler? That seems a little uncalled for. I don't remember Father Frank destroying a Catholic nation, executing and persecuting Jews, Catholics, gays, etc.

If someone takes the effort to befriend members of the opposition in order to better understand the opposition, we should applaud their efforts to reach out to the other side. That's all I meant to say.

It wasn't a comparison, it was an illustration of faulty logic.

You know, you hem and haw about Father Frank but don't really explain why - other than the fact that you think he misrepresents the opposition and appeals to emotions. What's wrong with appealing to peoples emotions? As a society I think we've deadened our emotions to the good things in live - love, happiness, true sexuality (not this promiscuity), etc.

Appeals to emotion are lies. Decisions should not be made on emotion and we should not encourage such. "Look how gross the chopped up baby is, abortion is eeevil" is no better an argument than "some people want to rob poor minorities of a chance to get their life on track because they hate women and brown people and don;t respect them to make the right choices with their bodies." Those are bad arguments.


You have 8 posts in OBOB, all of them in this thread. Your pal has one. Is this what you do, hop around the web doing PR for Priests For Life? Sit down, have a cup of coffee. Be a participant here. I might even take you seriously and not assume you're a shill with no interest in being a member of this little online community.
 
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KimShaww

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It wasn't a comparison, it was an illustration of faulty logic.



Appeals to emotion are lies. Decisions should not be made on emotion and we should not encourage such. "Look how gross the chopped up baby is, abortion is eeevil" is no better an argument than "some people want to rob poor minorities of a chance to get their life on track because they hate women and brown people and don;t respect them to make the right choices with their bodies." Those are bad arguments.


You have 8 posts in OBOB, all of them in this thread. Your pal has one. Is this what you do, hop around the web doing PR for Priests For Life? Sit down, have a cup of coffee. Be a participant here. I might even take you seriously and not assume you're a shill with no interest in being a member of this little online community.

Again, I restated what I meant: That if someone takes the effort to befriend members of the opposition in order to better understand the opposition, we should applaud their efforts to reach out to the other side.

It is not a lie to appeal to ones emotion. The fact that people can condone the killing of innocent children makes the abortion issue emotional! It makes me cry to think that so many babies are being killed. Passion is an emotion - is it wrong to be passionate about something you love, say, the Church? Your Faith? Now to rule completely on emotions is bad, but we can take our emotions to inspire us to do good things and stand up for what's right. Sometimes it takes an appeal to our emotions to cause us to take action.

Um, ok wow. I don't think I deserved that. So I just started today, this is the only forum that I've posted on, and suddenly I'm accused of being a PR person for Priests for Life? Geez, warm welcome. I was testing the waters here on a topic that I feel strongly about. I guess I don't want to be a part of this forum if this is how you treat people. And I don't have a buddy that's commented on here :confused: someone wrote me a message on my profile and someone I don't even know friend-ed me, those are the only 'buddies' I have here. Cripes.
 
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Michie

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What did the Vatican really decide in Father Pavone's case?
The “victory” of Father Frank Pavone in his appeal to Rome illustrates something seriously wrong with the ordinary application of canon law. The word “victory” belongs in quotation marks above because we don’t know whether the Congregation for Clergy accepted all, or even most, of Father Pavone’s canonical argument.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Thank you for confirming what I already suspected about you.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-life. There is everything wrong with intentionally misrepresenting the positions or statements of your opponents which is something Father Pavone takes part in as a matter of routine in his radio ads featured on Relevant Radio. There is something wrong with walking the streets hoisting placards of mutilated corpses (see the PFL website to get yours for printing!) - it's just as wrong when war protesters pull out pictures of children's decapitated heads in their protests, and there is absolutely something wrong with a Catholic Priest playing Constitutional schollar like he did with his message today “The Supreme Court today officially declared that our current government pays no heed to the Constitution. Neither the President, nor Congress, nor the Supreme Court appears willing to protect life or liberty."

Read the headlines on the PFL website. Conjecture, subtle digs, lies by ommison. It's the same sort of garbage you see on secular websites.




Children don't get mutilated in Combat ? Children don't get mutilated in abortion ? It is not an appeal to motion when it is the truth.

I guess we should ban all those photos from the holocaust in Germany and the genocide in Cambodia. Wouldn't want to appeal to anyone's emotions.
 
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KimShaww

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Children don't get mutilated in Combat ? Children don't get mutilated in abortion ? It is not an appeal to motion when it is the truth.

I guess we should ban all those photos from the holocaust in Germany and the genocide in Cambodia. Wouldn't want to appeal to anyone's emotions.


Thank you! Good point!
 
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