Vassula Ryden's new book

Yoder777

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Yoder777

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Some waaaaay out RCs read and believe her stuff - even though the US RC Bishops have publicly disowned her as well.

Stay away from her

I am not trying to have a debate with you, but I didn't go to college so that anonymous people on internet forums can make me not want to give a claimed visionary a fair hearing. I don't know whether or not her messages are authentic, since I personally haven't read them, but she seems sincere and genuine. I'd be interested to see if an expert in facial recognition analysis like in that tv show Lie to Me watched one of her interviews to see if she's telling the truth or not.
 
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buzuxi02

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Its amazing how a woman born Orthodox and twice married to Lutherans had such appeal to Roman catholics.

Yoder, writing erotic poetry of how Christ 'asks' to possses her and fuse with her body, is probably the first clue that she's not all there.
Then there was the death threats she would give to her critics that she claimed came from her communication with Christ. Something about divine retribution befalling anyone who exposes her, or in layman terms offering veiled messages to get one of her brainless followers to kill her detractors.
She should of stuck to modeling. Regardess she and all those following her were excommunicated by the EP.
 
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Yoder777

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Yoder, if I may ask without causing offense, for I mean none. Have you ever considered actually studying Orthodoxy and learning more about the Church's history and beliefs are from sound Orthodox teachers, instead of all this mambo-jambo out in left field, that has no bearing on what we believe?

I am going to choose not to take offense to what you are saying. I have read several books on Eastern Orthodoxy theology, many articles, and have heard many sermons. My knowledge of Eastern Christian theology is probably more than the average person in the pew, though I don't like to think of myself in that way.

Is a truly educated person one who blindly accepts a particular party line because anonymous members of an internet forum told him to or is it someone who looks at a variety of perspectives and then forms an informed, well thought conclusion?
 
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Yoder777

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Yoder, writing erotic poetry of how Christ 'asks' to possses her and fuse with her body, is probably the first clue that she's not all there.

How is that specifically erotic? Teresa of Avila has sometimes been deemed erotic in how she described her ecstatic experiences.

The fourth is the "devotion of ecstasy or rapture," a passive state, in which the consciousness of being in the body disappears (2 Corinthians 12:2-3). Sense activity ceases; memory and imagination are also absorbed in God or intoxicated. Body and spirit are in the throes of a sweet, happy pain, alternating between a fearful fiery glow, a complete impotence and unconsciousness, and a spell of strangulation, intermitted sometimes by such an ecstatic flight that the body is literally lifted into space. This after half an hour is followed by a reactionary relaxation of a few hours in a swoon-like weakness, attended by a negation of all the faculties in the union with God. From this the subject awakens in tears; it is the climax of mystical experience, productive of the trance. (Indeed, she was said to have been observed levitating during Mass on more than one occasion (The Interior Castle St Teresa Of Avila translated by Mirabai Starr.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of_Ávila
(I know that Teresa of Avila was a Catholic saint, and therefore out of hand one might want to reject her experiences as genuine, but I am sure that if you tried hard enough, you could find some Orthodox mystics who had similar experiences.)

Then there was the death threats she would give to her critics that she claimed came from her communication with Christ. Something about divine retribution befalling anyone who exposes her, or in layman terms offering veiled messages to get one of her brainless followers to kill her detractors.

I don't know anything about that so I cannot comment on it.
 
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Yoder777

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I don't think anyone on this thread has actually addressed the actual content of her new book, which I guess an inquiring, open minded person might be curious about. Even if the book were rubbish, one would want to know why it's rubbish before dismissing it, instead of just repeating what an authority figure told you to believe. If we are to love God with all of our minds, shouldn't we use our minds? After all, we're not cult members.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuunisHWGUg
 
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127.0.0.1

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Yeah I can smell a con-artist at work here.

She wrote a book... she's selling it.

If you've had an encounter with God, wouldn't you want to spread that message for free? So she wants us all to hear about her conversation with God. Great. Put your book up on The Pirate Bay so we can all ... oh I'm sorry God's plan was for you to make more money?

Trust me. It's a rat.

The claim of such a personal relationship with God flies in the face of everything we understand about God.

Then of course there's the other obvious question. Why her?

If it's such a great message, why did God tell all of us? She admits she's ordinary there's nothing special about her... so why her then?

No. Not buying it. And you don't have to listen to every crazy person to be open minded.

And then there's the part about her book where she's saying God wants us to turn back to him. Like that's his message to people living in this modern age.

That is so blatantly vague, you knoooooow that's a marketing message that was designed to be trans-denominational.

If we're all supposed to turn back toward God, then why did God only tell her so she could use it to sell a book?

No, this whole thing is idiotic.

The only possible way we could get anything out of this, is the entertainment we'd get by taking her and Richard Dawkins, and locking them in a room together. Ohhhhh I'd love to see that...soooo much popcorn.
 
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Yoder777

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She wrote a book... she's selling it.

Does your church bookstore give books away for free or does it sell them? Mystics and theologians need to make a living like anyone else. If you are being sincere, I might suggest staging a protest the next time a nice little old lady wants you to fork over twenty dollars for another Kallistos Ware book.

The claim of such a personal relationship with God flies in the face of everything we understand about God.

How is her relationship with God much different from other mystics throughout history?

And then there's the part about her book where she's saying God wants us to turn back to him. Like that's his message to people living in this modern age.

There must be more to it than that. The True Life in God books, which I haven't read, are hundreds, if not thousands, of pages.

I think we should be able to inform ourselves from a variety of perspectives and discuss them in as fair and dispassionate manner as possible. I have taken no position in favor of this woman or her writings. I simply believe that she should be given a fair hearing before being dismissed as fraudulent.
 
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127.0.0.1

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Does your church bookstore give books away for free or does it sell them? Mystics and theologians need to make a living like anyone else. If you are being sincere, I might suggest staging a protest the next time a nice little old lady wants you to fork over twenty dollars for another Kallistos Ware book.


Met. Ware give out a lot of information outside of books. He gives talks, lectures, and he does them without constantly teasing people about having some secret knowledge that you have to buy his book to uncover.

This is an obvious marketing ploy.

Met. Ware writes books on things like, how to live and Orthodox life, he doesn't have a monopoly on information and he doesn't claim to. You don't have to read Met. Ware's book to know what the Orthodox Church teaches or to learn about God. It's an additional source, not the sole source.


That's different from claiming that you have a monopoly on information, which is what this lady is doing. She's saying that God spoke to her, and told her things to tell people living in the modern age. Now she won't tell us what that message is.... we have to read her book to find out. And when she talks, it's to plug her book. Her talks are just her, "teasing" her book.

She gives out a bit of info... oh but you have to read her book to find out more.

No, it's got super scam written all over. She's not different that the tons of other people who claim to have special powers so they can get on Fox n' Friends and plug their book to millions of viewers.

She's building up a brand and a personality cult. I'm just waiting for her to start a "members only" club, where you can get access to the 'super secret' message God has for humanity.

Psssht. NO. This is about money, plain and simple.

Her name should be Goldman Sachs.
 
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Yoder777

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That's different from claiming that you have a monopoly on information, which is what this lady is doing. She's saying that God spoke to her, and told her things to tell people living in the modern age. Now she won't tell us what that message is.... we have to read her book to find out. And when she talks, it's to plug her book. Her talks are just her, "teasing" her book.

What secret information does she present in her books that she doesn't speak of in her conferences and lectures? I am honestly curious to learn more of what this woman is all about and what she has to say. What makes her mystical experiences different from the mystics of the ages? I have no reason to blindly defend her since I am not one of her followers, but for the sake of intellectual honesty, I am willing to defend her right to a fair hearing.
 
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buzuxi02

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While I dont know what Theresa of Avila wrote, if what you posted is accurate its still far away from what Vasoula's poetry says. Ryden's poems are sexual and erotic in nature. For example her poem about recieving a ring and getting married to Christ is more carnal and sensualistic than anything written before her. For example her poems are usually written in the first person as Jesus supposedly dictates them to her. In other words they are said to actually be the words of Jesus, writing love letters to her!

These heretical poems include the following phrases that she claims were divinely dictated to her:

December 23, 1993: “My Holy Spirit, like a Bridegroom, appears in your days, to court you, seduce you and wed you....”


May 5, 1987: “daughter, I love to hear you surrendering, let Me be your Captor.”


March 23, 1987: I will sanctify our marriage allow Me to place this ring on your finger, I love you, feel Me, I love you and I bless you....”

This is a small sampling and not the worst of the erotic poetry the demon writes to her. Her husband should be ashamed but im sure he likes the money she brings in.
 
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Yoder777

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While I dont know what Theresa of Avila wrote, if what you posted is accurate its still far away from what Vasoula's poetry says. Ryden's poems are sexual and erotic in nature. For example her poem about recieving a ring and getting married to Christ is more carnal and sensualistic than anything written before her. For example her poems are usually written in the first person as Jesus supposedly dictates them to her. In other words they are said to actually be the words of Jesus, writing love letters to her!

These heretical poems include the following phrases that she claims were divinely dictated to her:

December 23, 1993: “My Holy Spirit, like a Bridegroom, appears in your days, to court you, seduce you and wed you....”


May 5, 1987: “daughter, I love to hear you surrendering, let Me be your Captor.”


March 23, 1987: I will sanctify our marriage allow Me to place this ring on your finger, I love you, feel Me, I love you and I bless you....”

This is a small sampling and not the worst of the erotic poetry the demon writes to her. Her husband should be ashamed but im sure he likes the money she brings in.

Should this language be taken as metaphorical or literal? Haven't nuns traditionally considered themselves as married to Christ? Are we not the bride of Christ? Can a person feel so close to Jesus as to legitimately say "I am in love with Jesus"?
 
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Yoder777

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How many people can say that they've actually attended a lecture of Biship Kallistos Ware and asked him questions? I've been more immersed in Eastern Orthodox teachings and activities than the average person would ever want to be. At one point of my life, I certainly would have rejected Ryden out of hand because a priest told me to. Those days are thankfully over, since I am now willing to give her the same kind of fair hearing that Christian love would demand. I have no reason for rejecting her before I know what she actually has to say and why she says it.
 
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