Values in a Time of Upheaval

[LivingWordUnity]

I'm waiting for my next Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) book Values in a Time of Upheaval to arrive. I skimmed through it on Google Books and was very impressed. So I went to the Ignatius Press website and ordered it.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

"The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world."

— Catechism of the Catholic Church, 677
.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I just received the book in the mail today, and it's great! Here's what it says about it in the description on the back of the book:

In the worldwide best seller Values in a Time of Upheaval, Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) passionately defends the role traditional Judeo-Christian values should play in a pluralistic society and a multicultural world. He examines such crucial contemporary issues as the moral foundations of a free society, the role of spiritual values in promoting human rights, current challenges to Western culture, and the place of faith and love of God in finding true peace. Joseph Ratzinger proposes a balance of faith and reason that avoids the extremes of fundamentalist theocracies and secular, relativist states.

Topics include:

• Politics and morality
• Peace
• The meaning of history
• Truth in a pluralistic world
• The moral basis of democratic states
• Relativism
• Human dignity
• The Christian basis for hope
• Bioethics
• Freedom
• Human rights and responsibilities
• Marriage and family
• Tradition and progress

 

[Michie]

That sounds like a very good book for discussion. Wish I had a copy.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

"Europe has once again become one of the great topics in the public debate about our present and our future. The struggle to elaborate a European constitution, the eastward expansion of the European Union, the question of whether Turkey (a state conscious throughout its history of being a counterfoil to Christian Europe, thanks to its own cultural and religious foundations) should be accepted as a member—all these issues confront us with fundamental questions. What are in fact the foundations on which we live? What supports our societies and holds them together? How do states discern their moral bases and, consequently, also the forces that motivate them to moral conduct—forces without which a state cannot exist? How do we locate ourselves and Europe in the global situation—in the tension between North and South, in the tension between the great cultures of humanity, or in the tension between a technological-secular civilization and those ultimate questions to which it can offer no answer?"

— Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Values in a Time of Upheaval, 7
.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

That sounds like a very good book for discussion. Wish I had a copy.

We can view parts of it on Google Books (here).

 

[LivingWordUnity]

"Today it is not so much fear of a large-scale war that causes us sleepless nights but rather fear of the omnipresent terrorism that can become operative and strike anywhere." — Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Values in a Time of Upheaval, 35

 

[pdudgeon]

"Today it is not so much fear of a large-scale war that causes us sleepless nights but rather fear of the omnipresent terrorism that can become operative and strike anywhere." — Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Values in a Time of Upheaval, 35

Amen to that!
people have been saying for years that the electric grid in this county is vulnerable to such an attack.
that's one reasn why solar has taken off like it has in the Southern states.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I read the book a few years ago, when the retreat master at St Joseph's Abbey told me how brilliant
Pope Benedict XVI was. I was surprised to hear it, because the retreat master is very liberal.

Anyway, I bought the book from their book store and was amazed how liberal Pope Benedict XVI actually is.

In fact, take note of how Pope Benedict XVI defines the progressive and the conservative. He said something to the effect, that to see change for the better, one has to have a progressive mindset, while the conservative is content to keep the status-quo.

Also, he quotes the Tao in it and parts from other religions.

Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I read the book a few years ago, when the retreat master at St Joseph's Abbey told me how brilliant
Pope Benedict XVI was. I was surprised to hear it, because the retreat master is very liberal.

Anyway, I bought the book from their book store and was amazed how liberal Pope Benedict XVI actually is.

In fact, take note of how Pope Benedict XVI defines the progressive and the conservative. He said something to the effect, that to see change for the better, one has to have a progressive mindset, while the conservative is content to keep the status-quo.

Also, he quotes the Tao in it and parts from other religions.

Jim

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI knows about other religions, but he's not a liberal. He doesn't believe that all religions are equal.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI knows about other religions, but he's not a liberal. He doesn't believe that all religions are equal.

Actually he is a progressive, but don't use the definition of conservative and liberal according to American political definitions, but classic definition which Pope Benedict XVI himself used.

In Vatican II, then Cardinal Ratzinger was progressive in looking for reforms in the Church, as Pope John XXIII had looked for. In fact, he and Cardinal Wytola, aka, Pope John Paul II, were at odds often, for Cardinal Wytola was a conservative.

Its why Pope John Paul II never compromised with SSPX, where Pope Benedict XVI, did, in allowing the TLM to be celebrated openly.

The fact is, if you see something needing to be changed, it requires a progressive mindset, just as Pope Benedict XVI wrote in the book you're reading.

Read it with an open mind that is separated from American political ideologies, and you'll see everything in a different light.

God Bless
Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The fact is, if you see something needing to be changed, it requires a progressive mindset, just as Pope Benedict XVI wrote in the book you're reading.

Can you provide a quote from the book?

 

[Fantine]

It was written in 2005, and it's only 175 pages. It sounds like an interesting book.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Can you provide a quote from the book?

Not an exact quote, but paraphrased in what the Pope said.

Read the 1st Chapter, the first paragraph.

Heck, the title of the Chapter, "To Change or To Preserve."

Change requires a progressive mindset, because the opposite, conservative, is to conserve the status quo.


Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Not an exact quote, but paraphrased in what the Pope said.

Read the 1st Chapter, the first paragraph.

Heck, the title of the Chapter, "To Change or To Preserve."

Change requires a progressive mindset, because the opposite, conservative, is to conserve the status quo.

He explains various points of view and gives his opinion. So just because he mentions a point of view in his book doesn't mean that he endorses it. His writing style requires one to pay attention to the context to see what he says about it. Here's a dramatic example where he temporarily writes as if from the point of view of the godless in order to grab the reader's attention:

"If we open our eyes, isn't what is said in the parable [of the wicked tenants] actually a description of our present world? Isn't this precisely the logic of the modern age, of our age? Let us declare that God is dead, then we ourselves will be God. At last we no longer belong to anyone else; rather, we are simply the owners of ourselves and of the world. At last we can do what we please. We get rid of God; there is no measuring rod above us; we ourselves are our only measure. The 'vineyard' belongs to us. What happens to man and the world next? We are already beginning to see it...." - Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I, p. 257​

 

[MoonlessNight]

How tremendously limiting it must be to read the words of great thinkers and only take away from it a measure of that thinker's "liberalness" or "conservativeness."

 

[JimR-OCDS]

He explains various points of view and gives his opinion. So just because he mentions a point of view in his book doesn't mean that he endorses it. His writing style requires one to pay attention to the context to see what he says about it. Here's a dramatic example where he temporarily writes from the point of view of the godless in order to grab the reader's attention:

"If we open our eyes, isn't what is said in the parable [of the wicked tenants] actually a description of our present world? Isn't this precisely the logic of the modern age, of our age? Let us declare that God is dead, then we ourselves will be God. At last we no longer belong to anyone else; rather, we are simply the owners of ourselves and of the world. At last we can do what we please. We get rid of God; there is no measuring rod above us; we ourselves are our only measure. The 'vineyard' belongs to us. What happens to man and the world next? We are already beginning to see it..." - Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Jesus of Nazareth - Vol I, p. 257​

He presents the points of view, but also distinguishes between them. However, in all cases, to see the need for change for the good, requires openness to change, rather than resistance, i.e. progressive vs conservative.
But he goes on to explain the problems where change is done out of mans rationalization, vs the God's.

The former he refers to as revolt, while the later is reform.

Also, for a change to the good, it must be done with moral reason, rather than human reason, which become like a religion in our society.

When I read this book, we were at the beginning of the invasion of Iraq. I reflected on how the term, "democracy" was used by the Bush administration and those who supported the war with the idea we would bring democracy to a society which was begging for it.

In this case, "democracy," became like a religion to those who promoted it in the war, and of course, it was thrown right back in our faces by the new Iraqi government.

In all of this, what Pope Benedict XVI is saying in the book is that yes, we desire change for the good of mankind, but change must be based on God's law. In fact he says the Ten Commandments should be used as the guideline.

At the same time, he rejects the conservative approach of keeping the status quo, by those who are the only one's benefiting from it.


Jim

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Jim,

I don't see where he tries to use a different definition of "conservative" and "progressive" the way you are trying to do. It seems like you are trying to use those terms in a purely subjective way which makes the words confusing, vague, and meaningless. If "conservative" means "keeping the status quo" that would mean that anyone and anything can be called "conservative" since "keeping the status quo" can mean anything.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim,

I don't see where he tries to use a different definition of "conservative" and "progressive" the way you are trying to do. It seems like you are trying to use those terms in a purely subjective way which makes the words confusing, vague, and meaningless. If "conservative" means "keeping the status quo" that would mean that anyone and anything can be called "conservative" since "keeping the status quo" can mean anything.

Using the definition of the terms;

pro·gres·sive
prəˈɡresiv/
adjective
adjective: progressive

1. 1.
   happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
   2.
   (of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
   
   

con·serv·a·tive
kənˈsərvədiv/
adjective
adjective: conservative

1. 1.
   holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
   synonyms: traditionalist, traditional, conventional, orthodox, old-fashioned, dyed-in-the-wool, hidebound, unadventurous, set in one's ways;More
   moderate, middle-of-the-road, buttoned-down;
   informalstick-in-the-mud
   "our more conservative neighbors may object to the modern architecture being proposed"
   antonyms: radical
   • (of dress or taste) sober and conventional.
     "a conservative suit"
     synonyms: conventional, sober, modest, plain, unobtrusive, restrained, subtle, low-key, demure, unshowy, unflashy;More
     informalsquare, straight
     "he wore a conservative blue suit"
     antonyms: ostentatious
   • (of an estimate) purposely low for the sake of caution.
     "the film was not cheap—$30,000 is a conservative estimate"
     synonyms: low, cautious, understated, moderate, reasonable
     "a conservative estimate"
   • (of surgery or medical treatment) intended to control rather than eliminate a condition, with existing tissue preserved as far as possible.
   • of or relating to the Conservative Party of Great Britain or a similar party in another country.
     adjective: Conservative
     synonyms: right-wing, reactionary, traditionalist;More
     Republican;
     Tory;
     informalredneck
     "the conservative wing of the party"
     antonyms: socialist

noun
noun: conservative; plural noun: conservatives
1.
a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics.


So, reading what Pope Benedict wrote and you see the applied definitions in his statements.

Again, American Politics, the terms are skewed toward the parties which are neither truly conservative nor liberal according to definition

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

How tremendously limiting it must be to read the words of great thinkers and only take away from it a measure of that thinker's "liberalness" or "conservativeness."

And this is what you believe is the only thing I've taken from this book, which of course is your error, not mine.



Jim