USATODAY June 28th - Ex-leaders of ministry to change gays apologize

savedandhappy1

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What Causes Homosexuality?

From Kathy Belge,
Your Guide to Lesbian Life.
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What Makes someone Gay or Lesbian?

What causes homosexuality? There has been much debate about what causes homosexuality. Is there a gay gene? Is homosexuality caused by environmental factors, such as upbringing, child molestation, an absent mother or affectionate father? Or is it something we’re born with, an inherited trait, like skin or hair color?
Although there have been few studies on the cause of homosexuality, the debate seems to be divided, with scientists in one corner and religious fundamentalists in another. What is Sexual Orientation?

The American Psychological Association defines sexual orientation as such: Sexual orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual, or affectional attraction that a person feels toward another person. Sexual orientation falls along a continuum. In other words, someone does not have to be exclusively homosexual or heterosexual, but can feel varying degrees of attraction for both genders. Sexual orientation develops across a person's lifetime—different people realize at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual.
They go on to say that sexual behavior is not the same as sexual orientation. Certainly gay individuals can engage in heterosexual sex, in fact many do before they come out. One needs to look no further than the prison population to see evidence of homosexual behavior in otherwise heterosexual individuals. (And I’m not including incidents of prison rape in this analysis.)
Also, the work of Alfred Kinsey in the 1950s determined that most individuals are not exclusively homosexual or heterosexual, but most fall somewhere in the between the two. Is being gay a choice?

If you ask most gay people they will tell you that being gay is not something they chose. Why would anyone choose to be something that could cause them to be scorned by society, rejected by their families, deny them rights and subject them to possible violent hate crimes? That is not to say that all of being gay or lesbian is negative. In fact, most lesbians, once they come out, say they’ve never been happier or more fulfilled.
Some lesbians will contend that being gay is a choice, especially those who were once married or came out later in life. Others are angered to hear someone say that. Sheryl Swoopes received some scorn from the gay and lesbian community when she said she thought being gay was her choice., “I think there are a lot of people -- gays and lesbians -- who believe you are born that way. I think there also a lot of people who believe it's a choice. And, for me, I believe it was a choice. I was at a point in my life where I had gone through a divorce and was not in a relationship, and the choice I made happened to be that I fell in love with another woman” she said in an interview on Gay.com
Many gays and lesbians would argue that being gay is not a choice, but whether to act on it is. We don’t choose our sexual orientation, but we do choose whether or not to come out of the closet.
Most scientific organizations also believe that homosexuality is not a choice, that biology plays some role. The National Mental Health Association says, “Most researchers believe sexual orientation is complex, and that biology plays an important role. This means that many people are born with their sexual orientation, or that it’s established at an early age.” What Twin Studies Tell us about Homosexuality

Scientists have studied twins to try and learn if being gay is biologically determined. Studies of identical and fraternal twins suggest that there is a genetic influence on sexual orientation. If being gay were strictly genetic, then in identical twins, there would be a 100% concordance rate for sexual orientation. But one study in 1995 found a 52% correlation for male identical twins and 22% for male fraternal twins. A study on females came up with similar results. If one identical twin was a lesbian, in 48% of cases, the other twin was also a lesbian. For fraternal twins, the concordance was 16%. (source Simon LeVay
These studies show that people with the same genetic make up (identical twins) are more likely to share sexual orientation than those with different genetic make up (fraternal twins.) Genetics alone cannot cause sexual orientation, but they do play a part. Is there a gay gene?

Scientists have not been able to conclude that there is any gene or combination of genes that will make someone gay. Genetics is very complex and scientists continue to study both humans and animals chromosomes for linkage to sexual orientation. What about the gay brain study?

A widely publicized study in 1999 found that a certain part of the hypothalamus was smaller in gay men then in heterosexual men. This study was widely touted at the time as “proof” that one’s sexual orientation is biological and not chosen. But it is not known whether these differences in brain are present at birth or if they occur over a lifetime. In conclusion

Despite social science and biological research, it is still not known what causes someone to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or straight. Scientists and social scientists will no doubt continue to study the causes of homosexuality in both animals and humans.
No matter what they find, gays, lesbians and their supporters will continue the fight for fair and equal treatment.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/comingoutadvice/a/Causes.htm?p=1
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Lets see. More meaningless slander and liberal by argument from silence.

Pyschiatrists are honest enough to publish statistics about their failure rates…um no

Psychologists are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Psychologists are honest enough to publish statistics about the safety of what they do…HA! As if

Pyschiatrists are honest enough to publish statistics about the potential harm of what they do…yeah right.

Psychologists are honest enough to accept the impact of social stigma in motivating efforts to cure homosexuality...no

Etc, etc., etc. yada, yada, yada.

A few years ago I had 8 hour ear surgery. The Dr. told me one of the potential dangers was loss of hearing in the ear , even death. I am still here and I still hear.

Since you keep repeating this stuff, ad nauseum, do you have any evidence of anything, anything at all, associated with these ministries? Didn't think so.
Actually they do give those rates Der Alter, but mostly only to patients. Also, that last part is so useless. Good for you, you survived a surgery. My mom survived about 20 along with spina bifeda when the doctor told her she WOULD die before she was 16. I'm still here. I don't see what point this proves.
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Actually they do give those rates Der Alter, but mostly only to patients. Also, that last part is so useless. Good for you, you survived a surgery. My mom survived about 20 along with spina bifeda when the doctor told her she WOULD die before she was 16. I'm still here. I don't see what point this proves.[/SIZE]

It does not surprise me that you did not understand my post. Try actually reading it, slowly.

As mine did, Drs, and other care providers, tell their patients the dangers. But I doubt that any of them post any of that information on the internet to satisfy the objections of people, like you, who know abso-diddly nothing about them and have no intention of ever seeking their services.

OBTW what specifically are the so-called "potential harm" of faith based ministries? And do you have any documentation? Didn't think so.
 
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davedjy

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It does not surprise me that you did not understand my post. Try actually reading it, slowly.

As mine did, Drs, and other care providers, tell their patients the dangers. But I doubt that any of them post any of that information on the internet to satisfy the objections of people, like you, who know abso-diddly nothing about them and have no intention of ever seeking their services.

OBTW what specifically are the so-called "potential harm" of faith based ministries? And do you have any documentation? Didn't think so.
I trust the psychiatrists and psychologists over those with a tainted, anti-gay agenda. Especially when we have nearly all CREDIBLE mental health foundations that agree that it is unchangeable!
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]I trust the psychiatrists and psychologists over those with a tainted, anti-gay agenda. Especially when we have nearly all CREDIBLE mental health foundations that agree that it is unchangeable![/SIZE]

Irrelevant to my post. Has anyone ever documented any of the so-called "potential harm" faith based ministries supposedly inflict on people who seek help from them? "Not changing" something is NOT a "potential harm."
 
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davedjy

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Irrelevant to my post. Has anyone ever documented any of the so-called "potential harm" faith based ministries supposedly inflict on people who seek help from them? "Not changing" something is NOT a "potential harm."
Check out some DOCUMENTED data showing people leave the ministries suicidal. APA's website for example, so yes you are wrong, they actually harm people and have such proof to back this.

Fundamentalists are yet to understand God's diversity...
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Check out some DOCUMENTED data showing people leave the ministries suicidal. APA's website for example, so yes you are wrong, they actually harm people and have such proof to back this.

Fundamentalists are yet to understand God's diversity[/SIZE]
...

Repeating empty assertions does not make them true. Back it up, or pack it up.
 
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davedjy

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Repeating empty assertions does not make them true. Back it up, or pack it up.
Bring proof that a credible mental health foundation has properly converted a gay person with researched and backed data...THEN we will talk.
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Bring proof that a credible mental health foundation has properly converted a gay person with researched and backed data...THEN we will talk.[/SIZE]

I have never made that claim, so why should I produce any evidence for it? OTOH you have made claims for which you have provided no evidence.
 
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savedandhappy1

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Preaching Against Homosexuality Causes Gay Teenagers to Commit Suicide.

I received an e-mail from someone who assured me that the blood of gay teenagers was on my hands because saying that homosexuality is wrong makes people kill themselves. The belief that gay teenagers are at high risk for suicide is largely inspired by a 1989 report by a special federal task force on youth and suicide. This report stated three things; first, that gay and lesbian youths account for one third of all teenage suicides; second, that suicide is the leading cause of death among gay teenagers, and third, gay teens who commit suicide do so because of "internalized homophobia" and violence directed at them.(14) This report has been cited over and over in both gay and mainstream publications.

San Francisco gay activist Paul Gibson wrote this report based on research so shoddy that when it was submitted to Dr. Louis Sullivan, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Sullivan officially distanced himself and his department from it.(15) The report's numbers, both its data and its conclusions, are extremely questionable. Part of the report cites an author claiming that as many as 3,000 gay youths kill themselves each year. But that's over a thousand more than the total number of teen suicides in the first place! Gibson exaggerated his numbers when he said that one third of all teen suicides are committed by gay youth. He got this figure by looking at gay surveys taken at drop- in centers for troubled teens, many of which were gay-oriented, which revealed that gay teens had two to four times the suicidal tendencies of straight kids. Gibson multiplied this higher figure by the disputed Kinsey figure of a 10% homosexual population to produce his figure that 30% of all youth suicides are gay. David Shaffer, a Columbia University psychiatrist who specializes in teen suicides, pored over this study and said, "I struggled for a long time over Gibson's mathematics, but in the end, it seemed more hocus-pocus than math."(15)
The report's conclusions are contradicted by other, more credible reports. Researchers at the University of California-San Diego interviewed the survivors of 283 suicides for a 1986 study. 133 of those who died were under 30, and only 7 percent were gay and they were all over 21. In another study at Columbia University of 107 teenage boy suicides, only three were known to be gay, and two of those died in a suicide pact. When the Gallup organization interviewed almost 700 teenagers who knew a teen who had committed suicide, not one mentioned sexuality as part of the problem. Those who had come close to killing themselves mainly cited boy-girl problems or low self-esteem.(17)
Gibson didn't use a heterosexual control group in his study. Conclusions and statistics are bound to be skewed without a control group. When psychiatrist David Shaffer examined the case histories of the gay teens who committed suicides in Gibson's report, he found the same issues that straight kids wrestle with before suicide: "The stories were the same: a court appearance scheduled for the day of the death; prolonged depression; drug and alcohol problems; etc."(18) That any teenager experiences so much pain that he takes his life is a tragedy, regardless of the reason. But it's not fair to lay the responsibility for gay suicides, the few that there are, on those who agree with God that it's wrong and harmful behavior.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homomyth.html
 
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davedjy

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Preaching Against Homosexuality Causes Gay Teenagers to Commit Suicide.

I received an e-mail from someone who assured me that the blood of gay teenagers was on my hands because saying that homosexuality is wrong makes people kill themselves. The belief that gay teenagers are at high risk for suicide is largely inspired by a 1989 report by a special federal task force on youth and suicide. This report stated three things; first, that gay and lesbian youths account for one third of all teenage suicides; second, that suicide is the leading cause of death among gay teenagers, and third, gay teens who commit suicide do so because of "internalized homophobia" and violence directed at them.(14) This report has been cited over and over in both gay and mainstream publications.

San Francisco gay activist Paul Gibson wrote this report based on research so shoddy that when it was submitted to Dr. Louis Sullivan, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Sullivan officially distanced himself and his department from it.(15) The report's numbers, both its data and its conclusions, are extremely questionable. Part of the report cites an author claiming that as many as 3,000 gay youths kill themselves each year. But that's over a thousand more than the total number of teen suicides in the first place! Gibson exaggerated his numbers when he said that one third of all teen suicides are committed by gay youth. He got this figure by looking at gay surveys taken at drop- in centers for troubled teens, many of which were gay-oriented, which revealed that gay teens had two to four times the suicidal tendencies of straight kids. Gibson multiplied this higher figure by the disputed Kinsey figure of a 10% homosexual population to produce his figure that 30% of all youth suicides are gay. David Shaffer, a Columbia University psychiatrist who specializes in teen suicides, pored over this study and said, "I struggled for a long time over Gibson's mathematics, but in the end, it seemed more hocus-pocus than math."(15)
The report's conclusions are contradicted by other, more credible reports. Researchers at the University of California-San Diego interviewed the survivors of 283 suicides for a 1986 study. 133 of those who died were under 30, and only 7 percent were gay and they were all over 21. In another study at Columbia University of 107 teenage boy suicides, only three were known to be gay, and two of those died in a suicide pact. When the Gallup organization interviewed almost 700 teenagers who knew a teen who had committed suicide, not one mentioned sexuality as part of the problem. Those who had come close to killing themselves mainly cited boy-girl problems or low self-esteem.(17)
Gibson didn't use a heterosexual control group in his study. Conclusions and statistics are bound to be skewed without a control group. When psychiatrist David Shaffer examined the case histories of the gay teens who committed suicides in Gibson's report, he found the same issues that straight kids wrestle with before suicide: "The stories were the same: a court appearance scheduled for the day of the death; prolonged depression; drug and alcohol problems; etc."(18) That any teenager experiences so much pain that he takes his life is a tragedy, regardless of the reason. But it's not fair to lay the responsibility for gay suicides, the few that there are, on those who agree with God that it's wrong and harmful behavior.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homomyth.html
In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed the term "homosexuality" from the list of mental and emotional disorders. Sexual orientation is not a disorder; therefore, it does not need to be cured.




In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work and that it can do more harm than good.




In 1998, the American Psychiatric Association stated it was opposed to reparative therapy, stating "psychiatric literature strongly demonstrates that treatment attempts to change sexual orientation are ineffective. However, the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive [suicidal] behavior..."




The American Medical Association, states in its policy number H-160.991, that it “opposes, the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation”.




In 2001, The U.S. Surgeon General's Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior asserted that homosexuality is not "a reversible lifestyle choice”.




Richard Cohen, one of the main reparative therapists, is permanently excluded from the American Counseling Association (ACA).




“Reparative therapy” is unethical. It does not work and it is dangerous and destructive. The damage that can be done by this practice is real. It can destroy someone's self esteem and faith and may lead to self-destructive and suicidal behavior.


http://www.pflag.org/Reparative_Therapy.exgay.0.html
 
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davedjy

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Repeating empty assertions does not make them true. Back it up, or pack it up.
No problem, sir.

In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work and that it can do more harm than good.




In 1998, the American Psychiatric Association stated it was opposed to reparative therapy, stating "psychiatric literature strongly demonstrates that treatment attempts to change sexual orientation are ineffective. However, the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive [suicidal] behavior..."




The American Medical Association, states in its policy number H-160.991, that it “opposes, the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation”.




In 2001, The U.S. Surgeon General's Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior asserted that homosexuality is not "a reversible lifestyle choice”.

http://www.pflag.org/Reparative_Therapy.exgay.0.html
 
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calvins96

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Interesting subplot to this thread - go to the thread linked below to discuss this....

'Gay'-rights leader quits homosexuality
http://www.christianforums.com/t5638615-gay-rights-leader-quits-homosexuality.html#post36370795
I saw this posted on another thread by you...Of course you know this author's background...if not, here is something of his own words....

On subjects from divorce to abortion to multiculturalism to the separation of church and state to "insane" youth culture, Kupelian declares the cause -- those damn 1960s hippies -- and the cure -- huge doses of Christianity, preferably the conservative, evangelical kind --

I don't think I need to say much more...
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]No problem, sir.

In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work and that it can do more harm than good.

In 1998, the American Psychiatric Association stated it was opposed to reparative therapy, stating "psychiatric literature strongly demonstrates that treatment attempts to change sexual orientation are ineffective. However, the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive [suicidal] behavior..."




The American Medical Association, states in its policy number H-160.991, that it “opposes, the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation”.

In 2001, The U.S. Surgeon General's Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior asserted that homosexuality is not "a reversible lifestyle choice”.

http://www.pflag.org/Reparative_Therapy.exgay.0.html[/SIZE]
http://www.pflag.org/Reparative_Therapy.exgay.0.html

Huge problem, my young friend. Same old, lame old 2d 3d hand one sentence sound bites from a homosexual website, ZERO, NONE, NADA primary or secondary sources.
 
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savedandhappy1

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In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed the term "homosexuality" from the list of mental and emotional disorders. Sexual orientation is not a disorder; therefore, it does not need to be cured.

Yes they did so?


In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work and that it can do more harm than good.

Yes they did so? :confused: I never have said for anyone to use reparative therapy, but yet you keep saying this over and over again. Not really sure why, but must just be something you like to talk about.


In 1998, the American Psychiatric Association stated it was opposed to reparative therapy, stating "psychiatric literature strongly demonstrates that treatment attempts to change sexual orientation are ineffective. However, the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive [suicidal] behavior..."

Same answer as above.


The American Medical Association, states in its policy number H-160.991, that it “opposes, the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation”.

Same answer as above.


In 2001, The U.S. Surgeon General's Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior asserted that homosexuality is not "a reversible lifestyle choice”.

Not reversible to or by man, but if not for God wouldn't we all be in a really bad way?


Richard Cohen, one of the main reparative therapists, is permanently excluded from the American Counseling Association (ACA).

Same answer as I put on the second question.

“Reparative therapy” is unethical. It does not work and it is dangerous and destructive. The damage that can be done by this practice is real. It can destroy someone's self esteem and faith and may lead to self-destructive and suicidal behavior.


http://www.pflag.org/Reparative_Therapy.exgay.0.html


Same answer as above.
 
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DMagoh

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I saw this posted on another thread by you...Of course you know this author's background...if not, here is something of his own words....

On subjects from divorce to abortion to multiculturalism to the separation of church and state to "insane" youth culture, Kupelian declares the cause -- those damn 1960s hippies -- and the cure -- huge doses of Christianity, preferably the conservative, evangelical kind --

I don't think I need to say much more...

I saw your response on another thread, and again I say...

Ummm..... the article was not written by or about David Kupelian. If you would like to discuss HIM, please start another thread, dont hijack mine.
 
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