USATODAY June 28th - Ex-leaders of ministry to change gays apologize

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MrPirate

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Someone said that gays will say anything to keep their sin. The USA Today article quoted above does NOT say what UIC claims it does.
Three former leaders of a ministry that counsels gays to change their sexual orientation apologized, saying although they acted sincerely, their message had caused isolation, shame and fear.
“I spent my time promoting “change” in others. When these changes did not occur, the people in my care frequently asked how long it would take for desires to change. I lied and encouraged them to keep praying and reading their Bible.” Darlene Bogle
http://www.beyondexgay.com/article/bogleapology
 
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Der Alte

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DMagoh

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READ IT AND WEEP...

I do weep. But for a different reason. I weep that these three have given up and went back to their sin. Unfortunately, it reminds me of Jesus' Parable of the Sower...


3 "Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." 9 Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
Mark 4:3-9
 
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MrPirate

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I do weep. But for a different reason. I weep that these three have given up and went back to their sin. Unfortunately, it reminds me of Jesus' Parable of the Sower...


3 "Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." 9 Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
Mark 4:3-9

So…if they had continued to lie…you would be saying they are good Christians?:scratch:
 
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UnitedInChrist

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So…if they had continued to lie…you would be saying they are good Christians?:scratch:
:amen: :swoon: ...what you said is so simple, but clearly, many do believe that. They can much more tolerate a liar, and the practicing of false ministry, rather than accept someone for whom they are. Listen, it's only a matter of time when science (that cuss word for many on these threads) will PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that sexuality is as genetic as the color of one's hair. Once that is proven, guess what?? it STILL will NOT change peoples beliefs, and they will still "require" you to pray the gay away. Almost like the nazi's that wanted everyone to be blonde/blue eyed...you will NEVER be accepted unless you meet the criteria of the individual that judges you. Very sad...VERY VERY sad. for that I weep MORE than anything else.
 
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MrPirate

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:amen: :swoon: ...what you said is so simple, but clearly, many do believe that. They can much more tolerate a liar, and the practicing of false ministry, rather than accept someone for whom they are. Listen, it's only a matter of time when science (that cuss word for many on these threads) will PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that sexuality is as genetic as the color of one's hair. Once that is proven, guess what?? it STILL will NOT change peoples beliefs, and they will still "require" you to pray the gay away. Almost like the nazi's that wanted everyone to be blonde/blue eyed...you will NEVER be accepted unless you meet the criteria of the individual that judges you. Very sad...VERY VERY sad. for that I weep MORE than anything else.
Truth rarely ever changes the mind of those who hate.

I pray that proof that sexual orientation is genetic is NOT found. My fear is that if compelling evidence for such is demonstrated those individuals who have embraced hate will overcome their objections to abortion (for homosexuality only) and possibly even euthanasia.
 
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DMagoh

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So…if they had continued to lie…you would be saying they are good Christians?:scratch:

No, that's not what I said my brother. They should have stepped down from leadership and continued working themselves. It's okay to admit weakness - that was their mistake. They should not have pretended they were doing well. Nobody ever said doing the right thing was easy. But then again, Jesus didnt say "climb into your BMW and follow me"....he said "take up your cross and follow me".
 
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UnitedInChrist

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Truth rarely ever changes the mind of those who hate.

I pray that proof that sexual orientation is genetic is NOT found. My fear is that if compelling evidence for such is demonstrated those individuals who have embraced hate will overcome their objections to abortion (for homosexuality only) and possibly even euthanasia.
sad but true. I've thought of that, but is it even possible to think that people would abort a child if they would know it was gay before it was born? I mean...are we as a species that demented and hateful? Don't answer that.....
 
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DMagoh

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Truth rarely ever changes the mind of those who hate...

I'm really disappointed in you. You like to say that just because I read the Bible and read the words that say homosexual behavior is a sin, I hate you. Brother, I DO NOT hate you or anyone else. Hate is not my motivation for reading the Bible. I also dont condemn you to hell. There is not a single human in hell for what they DID. The only humans in hell are there for what they DIDN'T DO - they didnt receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior fo their life. If you have, and I assume you have since you are posting in the Christians Only Section, then I rejoice that you are saved and that I will get to spend eternity with you worshipping our Lord!

I love you brother, despite what you think! :)
 
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savedandhappy1

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:amen: :swoon: ...what you said is so simple, but clearly, many do believe that. They can much more tolerate a liar, and the practicing of false ministry, rather than accept someone for whom they are.

So have you read hearts and minds for a long time or is this something new you are trying? The reason I ask is because you aren't doing very good at it, and if I was you I wouldn't give up your day job for it.:sigh:


Listen, it's only a matter of time when science (that cuss word for many on these threads) will PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that sexuality is as genetic as the color of one's hair. Once that is proven, guess what?? it STILL will NOT change peoples beliefs, and they will still "require" you to pray the gay away. Almost like the nazi's that wanted everyone to be blonde/blue eyed...you will NEVER be accepted unless you meet the criteria of the individual that judges you. Very sad...VERY VERY sad. for that I weep MORE than anything else.

Really, science is going to do that hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm sure since satan likes to copy the things of God, that he probably will find a way for that to happen. You know like God made man and woman, and satans creation is man and man and woman and woman. Oh, I forgot you don't believe in a literal devil, nevermind.

Well I will take God over science anytime, but you believe whatever.:sigh: Talk about being not only in this world but being part of it..........

You know it really would be bad and very very sad if all those who believe homosexuality is a sin were the way that so many keep saying they are. I do have to ask tho, does it make you feel better believing, or at least saying you believe, all people think and feel that way? Does it somehow make your side of this discussion right because you tell everyone that this is how we are, and this is what we believe?

So very sad indeed, and now I understand what it is I am supposed to be weeping over.:cry:
 
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UnitedInChrist

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I'm really disappointed in you. You like to say that just because I read the Bible and read the words that say homosexual behavior is a sin, I hate you. Brother, I DO NOT hate you or anyone else. Hate is not my motivation for reading the Bible. I also dont condemn you to hell. There is not a single human in hell for what they DID. The only humans in hell are there for what they DIDN'T DO - they didnt receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior fo their life. If you have, and I assume you have since you are posting in the Christians Only Section, then I rejoice that you are saved and that I will get to spend eternity with you worshipping our Lord!

I love you brother, despite what you think! :)
see dude, there you go gettin' my respect again. You're a fundamentalist, and I shouldn't like u..but these comments make me smile b/c it gives me hope that there are more fundamentalists like you out there. I can understand why you have the beliefs you do...b/c it is the way you were taught the bible. That same book is used by people that have completely different beliefs, but the bible is still the center of their beliefs. It is used by jews, it is used by the Amish. it is used by Catholics it is used by Protestants. It is used by so many..and all are taught it completely different than the next. So yes, it says what it says to you because it was taught to you that way. It says what it says to me, because it was taught to me the way I learned it. Again, for me...I am not a literalist. If I were, the bible would mean nothing to me because I would not get the meaning/message nor lesson out of it simply by reading words that have been translated over and over again. The bible, for me, needs to be read as a whole, and respected as a metaphorical, and sacred book, written by man, in order to inspire, strengh, and transform them in order to live a christian life TODAY, HERE AND NOW... and to embrace the core values of love, compassion, acceptance, and social justice.
 
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MrPirate

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No, that's not what I said my brother.
Yes it is. You are condemning them for being honest, for turning their back on false witness for rejecting prejudice.
They should have stepped down from leadership and continued working themselves. It's okay to admit weakness - that was their mistake.
Continuing to lie and pretend that hex-gays exist or that ex-gay ministers do not lie or harm people or promote hatred…that is weakness.
They should not have pretended they were doing well. Nobody ever said doing the right thing was easy. But then again, Jesus didnt say "climb into your BMW and follow me"....he said "take up your cross and follow me".
As noted….the right thing was for these individuals to be honest and stop lying and admit their part in the fostering of the lie of ex-gay ministries. In doing so they face the scorn and condemnation of people who attack them because they no longer lie.


The easy road would have been to hide behind the lies of the ex-gay movement.
 
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MrPirate

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I'm really disappointed in you. You like to say that just because I read the Bible and read the words that say homosexual behavior is a sin, I hate you. Brother, I DO NOT hate you or anyone else. Hate is not my motivation for reading the Bible. I also dont condemn you to hell. There is not a single human in hell for what they DID. The only humans in hell are there for what they DIDN'T DO - they didnt receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior fo their life. If you have, and I assume you have since you are posting in the Christians Only Section, then I rejoice that you are saved and that I will get to spend eternity with you worshipping our Lord!

I love you brother, despite what you think! :)
I am not sure what you are talking about.
I have never said or even implied hat you or anyone else hates me.
 
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MrPirate

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So have you read hearts and minds for a long time or is this something new you are trying? The reason I ask is because you aren't doing very good at it, and if I was you I wouldn't give up your day job for it.:sigh:
I think that has more to do with the vast number of Christians attacking and condemning the three brave individuals of the OP just because these people stopped lying.




Really, science is going to do that hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Its halfway there already


I'm sure since satan likes to copy the things of God, that he probably will find a way for that to happen. You know like God made man and woman, and satans creation is man and man and woman and woman. Oh, I forgot you don't believe in a literal devil, nevermind.
So evidence that sexual oriention is inborn would be the work of Satan?

Tell me, do you pretend any truth you don’t happen to like is also the work of Satan?

Interracial marriage…obviously the work of the devil!
Well I will take God over science anytime, but you believe whatever.:sigh: Talk about being not only in this world but being part of it..........
And if science can show sexual oriention is inborn…would you be honest enough to acknowledge that?


You know it really would be bad and very very sad if all those who believe homosexuality is a sin were the way that so many keep saying they are. I do have to ask tho, does it make you feel better believing, or at least saying you believe, all people think and feel that way? Does it somehow make your side of this discussion right because you tell everyone that this is how we are, and this is what we believe?
Does it make you feel better pretending that any truth you don’t happen to like is a creation of he devil?

So very sad indeed, and now I understand what it is I am supposed to be weeping over.:cry:
the loss caused by the lies of ex-gay ministries.
The ruined lives?
The hatred spread in its name?
The condemning of people because they refuse to lie?
 
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Der Alte

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. . . [SIZE=-1]Continuing to lie and pretend that hex-gays exist or that ex-gay ministers do not lie or harm people or promote hatred…that is weakness.

As noted….the right thing was for these individuals to be honest and stop lying and admit their part in the fostering of the lie of ex-gay ministries. In doing so they face the scorn and condemnation of people who attack them because they no longer lie.

The easy road would have been to hide behind the lies of the ex-gay movement[/SIZE]
.

Big problem with this reply, it paints everybody with the same big black brush of condemnation.

The 2-3 individuals in the cited article do not speak for, or represent, anyone but themselves.
 
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MrPirate

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Big problem with this reply, it paints everybody with the same big black brush of condemnation.

The 2-3 individuals in the cited article do not speak for, or represent, anyone but themselves.
Lets see.

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their failure rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to not attempt to stigmatize gays and lesbians…nope

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about the safety of what they do…HA! As if

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about the potential harm of what they do…yeah right.

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to accept the impact of social stigma in motivating efforts to cure homosexuality...no
 
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Der Alte

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Lets see.

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their failure rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to not attempt to stigmatize gays and lesbians…nope

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about the safety of what they do…HA! As if

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to publish statistics about the potential harm of what they do…yeah right.

Ex-gay ministries are honest enough to accept the impact of social stigma in motivating efforts to cure anything...no

Lets see. More meaningless slander and liberal by argument from silence.

Pyschiatrists are honest enough to publish statistics about their failure rates…um no

Psychologists are honest enough to publish statistics about their “success” rates…um no

Psychologists are honest enough to publish statistics about the safety of what they do…HA! As if

Pyschiatrists are honest enough to publish statistics about the potential harm of what they do…yeah right.

Psychologists are honest enough to accept the impact of social stigma in motivating efforts to cure homosexuality...no

Etc, etc., etc. yada, yada, yada.

A few years ago I had 8 hour ear surgery. The Dr. told me one of the potential dangers was loss of hearing in the ear , even death. I am still here and I still hear.

Since you keep repeating this stuff, ad nauseum, do you have any evidence of anything, anything at all, associated with these ministries? Didn't think so.
 
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savedandhappy1

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I think that has more to do with the vast number of Christians attacking and condemning the three brave individuals of the OP just because these people stopped lying.

Even tho this post wasn't to you I will answer.

So that's why he said read it and weep? :scratch:


Its halfway there already

Halfway there, which is why they say they find NO proof that it is genetic. Ok, that doesn't sound halfway to me, but...........


So evidence that sexual oriention is inborn would be the work of Satan?

Tell me, do you pretend any truth you don’t happen to like is also the work of Satan?

Interracial marriage…obviously the work of the devil!

And if science can show sexual oriention is inborn…would you be honest enough to acknowledge that?

Does it make you feel better pretending that any truth you don’t happen to like is a creation of he devil?


the loss caused by the lies of ex-gay ministries.
The ruined lives?
The hatred spread in its name?
The condemning of people because they refuse to lie?

Interracial marriage, give me a break.:doh: You know if you were only half right on most of the stuff you have posted of late I would waste my time answsering you, but to claim we are saying all this stuff we aren't is really getting old.


Frankly, the only hatred I see here is spread by.............

Nevermind, as I said if half of the stuff you posted was right I would bother to try and discussion our different views.
 
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