US First Lady Michelle Obama visits Russian Orthodox HIV/AIDS programme in Moscow

[ArmyMatt]

Just wanted to say: Louis Farakhan is so irrelevant in the 21st century. No one listens to or cares about him. The so called Black Panthers that you see on tv are 5 or 6 guys that show up to make headlines. Thats not a movement and is also irrelevant.

M.

oh I didn't say they were huge, but they are large enough to make headlines, and are examples of racism on the left.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Newt really said that?! Wow! That IS terrible! It has gotten bad in the GOP, and every election year, both sides get nastier.

It does seem that things seem to get worse year after year on all sides. There's mess on both the Right and the Left and it's always a batte seeking to address it equally. What trips me out is that black people who critique the president can be called "racist" simply because they're black/others assume they defend him solely on that basis (which is silly) ..when the reality is that many who've never agreed with him have also sought to not slander him and don't agree with every accusation brought against him by others when there's neither accuracy or truth involved (and double-standards)---and conversely, people defending the president in the name of combatting "racism" often seem to ignore being honest about some of the critiques brought up whenever people think that not agreeing with him must mean one doesn't like black culture...as many have said from the Left (sadly). ...and then there are others noting that he's really a multicultural president who will always have people hating him on all sides, regardless of ethnicity, since he has frustrated all camps equally as he sought to work with all of them.

I feel sorry for the many on both sides who don't want anything to do with the mess and are simply trying to be honorable to whoever is in the White House.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

...good on Mrs. Obama for her humanitarian work. The world needs more people who DO things like that.

Indeed. And I salute her for that as well as her work with military families and seeking to ensure they're taken care of.

 

[Dorothea]

It does seem that things seem to get worse year after year on all sides. There's mess on both the Right and the Left and it's always a batte seeking to address it equally. What trips me out is that black people who critique the president can be called "racist" simply because they're black/others assume they defend him solely on that basis (which is silly) ..when the reality is that many who've never agreed with him have also sought to not slander him and don't agree with every accusation brought against him by others when there's neither accuracy or truth involved (and double-standards)---and conversely, people defending the president in the name of combatting "racism" often seem to ignore being honest about some of the critiques brought up whenever people think that not agreeing with him must mean one doesn't like black culture...as many have said from the Left (sadly). ...and then there are others noting that he's really a multicultural president who will always have people hating him on all sides, regardless of ethnicity, since he has frustrated all camps equally as he sought to work with all of them.

This is true. The far left doesn't like him because he hasn't had the troops withdrawn from Afghanistan yet, and that he isn't liberal or progressive enough. The far right doesn't like him because they think he's either a Marxist who wants to destroy America, or a secret Muslim who is working somehow with them to overtake America.

Rationality and logical thinking would help.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

good stuff!

The work she has done with military families has also been amazing, as she seems to have a real heart for ensuring that others fighting to defend the nation are taken care of. Truly marvelous work, from ensuring families have encouragement to making baby showers for military families whose husbands are away and unable to help their wives afford it....to the ways that she has been aggressively working alongside her husband to ensure that veteran soldiers are able to find employment and be respected (even though others still try to claim that he's not connected with the military, as seen here ). As much as people may claim the First Lady hasn't done a lot over the years, she has truly done FAR more in many ways than a lot of others.

Regarding her work with military families, more was shared elsewhere in a discussion Thekla and I were involved as seen here

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yep. I've said this for a while. The guy one minute is Muslim out to Islamisize America. The next minute he's a radical atheist out to make us believe in nothing. Can't have it both ways.....

Then they claim he's an undercover Commie. If Obama is a communist, he's the WORST one in history. Tax cuts for millionaires, wanting to cut back on military spending, not collectivizing the farms, being for gay marriage, caring more about the environment than simple crude $$$ for the coffers from fossil fuel opportunities, not aggressively expanding American interests or trying to topple enemies, wanting free speech....that's one suckie communist!

This is true. The far left doesn't like him because he hasn't had the troops withdrawn from Afghanistan yet, and that he isn't liberal or progressive enough. The far right doesn't like him because they think he's either a Marxist who wants to destroy America, or a secret Muslim who is working somehow with them to overtake America.

Rationality and logical thinking would help.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Saying racism exists in a political party is racist? LOL

Orthodox Christians can't discuss racism? hmmmmm

Both your remarks are racist and political and out of place in the Orthodox forum.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I would agree with you. But I would say that the Black Panthers and the whole 60's and 70's militant black movements were a reaction to decades of hardcore racism, the noose, KKK, Tuskeegee, and a host of institutional racist persecution. Some African-Americans chose the route of MLK (the road of which I approve!) and some decided to fight fire with fire (Malcolm X and the gang). I can understand the Black Panther reactionism to some degree whereas the KKK and the anti-black stuff that started in this country hundreds of years ago is far more pervasive and scary....

Racism is rampant on the left as well, Louis Farakkan and Al Sharpton both come to mind, and let's not forget Joe Biden's many race based gaffs. or some Black Panthers standing in the way of voters.

Planned Parenthood has also been caught allowing you to fund abortions for specific races to give your kid a better chance (ie there are too many blacks in my hometown, can this money be used to abort a black baby so that my kids have a better shot?).

both sides have their racism and ignorance.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yep. I've said this for a while. The guy one minute is Muslim out to Islamisize America. The next minute he's a radical atheist out to make us believe in nothing. Can't have it both ways.....

The Muslim claim has never held any weight with me, nor has the atheist claim. With the Muslim claim, I think it's often said because people demonize Muslims and assume anyone working with them must be one of them---but they apply the logic selectively since they don't argue that the President is Jewish due to his extensive work amongst Jewish organizations or with others in differing groups. His mindset, due to growing up with a Muslim background because of his travels abroad in Indonesia as a child and choosing to follow Christ in his later years (as said directly in his books long before becoming President), is focused on making bridges between groups and finding ways to globally work together and learn to interact.

The fact of the matter is that he has often taken a lot of heat from all sides, but it bothers me a lot that people refuse to take the man at his word when he claims Christianity/talks on pointing to Christ and yet also has an ecumenical focus (more shared here, here , here and here ). He may not be the most mature believer or even one that is wise on a number of issues/prone to avoid being decieved---but I've only seen him consistently claim Christianity and people slander him when they say otherwise.

Then they claim he's an undercover Commie. If Obama is a communist, he's the WORST one in history.

Indeed. It's more accurate to say the President is a Corporatism ..and in differing ways, State Capitalism. Even in the event that he was a "Commie", I'm surprised to see how many throw out the term without any understanding of what that actually entails. since there were always differing varieties of Communism practiced by people that would connect with Capitalism (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, etc.)..much of it never being remotely connected to what the USSR was about when it comes to the ways communism was corrupted into Stalinism.

Tax cuts for millionaires, wanting to cut back on military spending, not collectivizing the farms, being for gay marriage, caring more about the environment than simple crude $$$ for the coffers from fossil fuel opportunities, not aggressively expanding American interests or trying to topple enemies, wanting free speech....that's one suckie communist!

People will say anything the moment redistribution comes up...but the ways he has sought to invest in the environment, use restraint with not seeking to make America Imperial (even though there have been imperialistic aspects to some decisions) and allowing for free speech---I really do wonder if people know what's up.

 

[Dorothea]

Yep. I've said this for a while. The guy one minute is Muslim out to Islamisize America. The next minute he's a radical atheist out to make us believe in nothing. Can't have it both ways.....

Then they claim he's an undercover Commie. If Obama is a communist, he's the WORST one in history. Tax cuts for millionaires, wanting to cut back on military spending, not collectivizing the farms, being for gay marriage, caring more about the environment than simple crude $$$ for the coffers from fossil fuel opportunities, not aggressively expanding American interests or trying to topple enemies, wanting free speech....that's one suckie communist!

It seems really far-fetched, for sure. I'm just wondering, if people shut off their talk radio and far-leaning whatever stations they watch and thought about it for a moment....really, there isn't any evidence of either.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I would agree with you. But I would say that the Black Panthers and the whole 60's and 70's militant black movements were a reaction to decades of hardcore racism, the noose, KKK, Tuskeegee, and a host of institutional racist persecution. Some African-Americans chose the route of MLK (the road of which I approve!) and some decided to fight fire with fire (Malcolm X and the gang). I can understand the Black Panther reactionism to some degree whereas the KKK and the anti-black stuff that started in this country hundreds of years ago is far more pervasive and scary....

A lot of the Black Panthers were actually for equality between blacks/whites and many non-blacks were a part of the group as well during the 60s/70s (influential scholars such as Cornel West being a part of the Black Panthers as well and loving people from all backgrounds). There was even a sister party to the Black Panthers made called White Panther which was meant to help fight racial discrimination (as seen here , here and here ) and aid women's rights.

It's often a stereotype to say that all of them were against whites--and to be clear, I'm not saying that you were noting that. I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine on the issue and she shared on the issue of how many reacted with aggressive protection of their group due to often having no options of protection from other groups that harmed them...many of which you noted. Much of what many Black Panther groups focused on was simply about confronting tyranny in government and the dominant culture wherever it could be found----and aiding whomever was harmed by it, be it blacks or whites (especially impoverished whites often in the struggle with blacks) or American Indians and so many others.

Militancy, moreover, was never something automatically divorced from the work done by Civil Rights leaders. Even Dr.King was described as a Militant Pacifist by others in his day and was well respected by other militants. For King, it was about discovering which has more strength: fighting via violence self-defense or aggressive submission. And for anyone ever saying militant pacifists can never get anything accomplished, I simply say look at King..as he was willing to die for it to make a difference we live in today. I'm very thankful for Brother Martin for doing as he did....and for showing what COULD happen if someone was willing to do as they felt they should. I'm thankful for learning of how King was not an absolute pacifist — for at one time he believed that only armed conflict could bring about racial justice in the United States...but for him, it was always a last resort. For more, as it concerns good reviews/resources on the matter, one can go online/investigate the resource entitled Lesson 6 :: A Threat to Justice Anywhere: War" ( )

Not many study the later years of both Martin and Malcom, as they seemed to achieve a remarkable degree of convergence. Malcom leaving the "Nation of Islam", denouncing it and being more willing to work with others who felt that violence was not the answer (even though he was for nationalism/seperatism to handle the issues of the black community)---and Martin, after Malcom died, went up to the areas Malcom had influence.....and in seeing the economic disparties/intentional discrimination via keeping others in poverty, he began to advocate more for the U.S having no real concern for blacks--and he was taken out once he began to denounce the Vietnam War due to how much he was militantly opposed to it and refusing to remain silent on what he felt was an action in evil. King also began to advocate for more on "Black Power" and letting other blacks know there was nothing wrong with being proud of one's black heritage.

For more on how Martin and Malcom saw convergence in their views, one can go here and here /here /here to the following:

• A Common Solution
• A The Unfinished Dialogue of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm
• “It is better to fight”: On Martin and Malcolm « Viewpoint Magazine
• Martin & Malcolm & America: A Dream Or a Nightmare - Google Books Result

</DIV>

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It seems really far-fetched, for sure. I'm just wondering, if people shut off their talk radio and far-leaning whatever stations they watch and thought about it for a moment....really, there isn't any evidence of either.

Indeed.

But the problem comes whenever people idolize their own camps and demonize others...leading to an inability to see what's there or to honor people on the other side of the street, even when they do exactly what you'd approve of if it was one of your own.

With First Lady Michelle Obama, we already see that when examining the ways others have claimed she has never worked with Christian groups and yet her work with Russian Orthodoxy and other camps cannot be ignored when one simply does research.

 

[inconsequential]

Keep in mind the New Black Panther Party is NOT associated with the original group. I have a lot of respect for the original group but the NBPP is a racist hate group, no different from kluckers or nazis.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Keep in mind the New Black Panther Party is NOT associated with the original group. I have a lot of respect for the original group but the NBPP is a racist hate group, no different from kluckers or nazis.

Goodness, the NBPP make me sick. Definately not the kind from the 60/70s protesting the Vietnam War amongst other things..and the original Black Panthers group actually condemned them (as seen here).

 

[Dorothea]

Indeed.

But the problem comes whenever people idolize their own camps and demonize others...leading to an inability to see what's there or to honor people on the other side of the street, even when they do exactly what you'd approve of if it was one of your own.

With First Lady Michelle Obama, we already see that when examining the ways others have claimed she has never worked with Christian groups and yet her work with Russian Orthodoxy and other camps cannot be ignored when one simply does research.

Yeah, I know.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would agree with you. But I would say that the Black Panthers and the whole 60's and 70's militant black movements were a reaction to decades of hardcore racism, the noose, KKK, Tuskeegee, and a host of institutional racist persecution. Some African-Americans chose the route of MLK (the road of which I approve!) and some decided to fight fire with fire (Malcolm X and the gang). I can understand the Black Panther reactionism to some degree whereas the KKK and the anti-black stuff that started in this country hundreds of years ago is far more pervasive and scary....

I agree here, and while I understand why these things turned out, you never justify your bad behavior with others bad behavior, no matter how bad their behavior is/was.

but back to the article, kudos to our First Lady.

 

[Fotina]

Saying racism exists in a political party is racist? LOL

Orthodox Christians can't discuss racism? hmmmmm

You accused the GOP of racism, your opinion, which does not make it true, and which I think is false. Dems play the race card out of thin air like VP Biden making that outrageous "chains" remark.

I didn't say Orthodox Christians can't discuss racism, but imo it's not profitable.

 

[Fotina]

With First Lady Michelle Obama, we already see that when examining the ways others have claimed she has never worked with Christian groups and yet her work with Russian Orthodoxy and other camps cannot be ignored when one simply does research.

I don't think she did any work with the ROC, she paid a visit to that place in 2009 while on official presidential visit with Pres. Obama to Russia.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Indeed.

But the problem comes whenever people idolize their own camps and demonize others...leading to an inability to see what's there or to honor people on the other side of the street, even when they do exactly what you'd approve of if it was one of your own.

yeah, I think the best example was when President Obama ordered a hamburger with Dijon mustard a few years back. you had the left swooning over him because he is so much like us and he likes burgers, making him seem so high and mighty that the thought of him enjoying something like a burger is mindblowing. and then you had the right basically calling him an uppity snob because he ordered Dijon mustard and not something like French's, even though he said he wanted Dijon because he likes spicey mustard. can't the man just enjoy a burger in peace?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yeah, I think the best example was when President Obama ordered a hamburger with Dijon mustard a few years back. you had the left swooning over him because he is so much like us and he likes burgers, making him seem so high and mighty that the thought of him enjoying something like a burger is mindblowing. and then you had the right basically calling him an uppity snob because he ordered Dijon mustard and not something like French's, even though he said he wanted Dijon because he likes spicey mustard. can't the man just enjoy a burger in peace?

Goodness, that bothered me when that occurred. It often seems that people are not able to allow presidents to be human. Saw the same thing recently when researching a program on Responsible Fatherhood Initiatives and seeing where President Obama was hanging with others for Fathers Day---noting to the cameras later that he was going to eat food in peace with the other fathers present after sharing some things briefly...as seen here in Honoring Fathers | The White House.

Similar has also happened in regards to how others were shocked that the president enjoyed sports and often complaining whenever he is known to be connected with them, be it in coaching the team his girls play on or attending sports games with his family and other things similar. One side sees it as revolutionary that the president would love sports while another acts as if it's a negative that he does so (some even saying he's not allowed to be relaxed as the president and that other presidents weren't doing sports----even though they had other recreational activities they did and had documented)...and others in-between simply noting the reality of him having ways of relieving stress as well as ways of connecting with others just like other people have ( more shared #568 , #570 and #615 )

People are people...and presidents are no different. Same with First Ladies...