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Update on Fr. John Corapi

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by CJtheCatholic, Jun 17, 2011.

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  1. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    No one said they didn't have authority.
    What if what they believe to be true are really lies?
    Yes they did, at the beginning.
    I read the statement as soon as it came out. I know what it says. It contradicts what they said before. To many unanswered questions for proof. No one said the evidence WAS spurious I said it was possible. If the accuser is lying and they believe it then they could be believing lies. We don't know one way or the other. I'm not going to be satisfied the SOLT has concrete proof at this point. I'm waiting for the court case to unfold and see what comes of that first.
    Its not an assumption at all. Its a fact because we don't have the evidence. All we have is the good word of the SOLT. The only ones who know the truth are those involved. We have no proof. You are choosing to believe the statements of SOLT, which is the right thing to do, but not guaranteed infallible truth.
    I read the SOLT statement.
    Why not? We are if we are after transparency in all scandals.
    No one said they didn't have authority.
    Who has accused the SOLT of anything? Certainly not I.
    Probably so. Though I did manage to find out who the accuser was a couple months ago.
    Yea, if one chooses to trust them I guess. Its still odd they said the accusation didn't prove anything when they suspended him but now that he took his million dollars and ran, they say it does. Very odd indeed.
     
  2. Davidnic

    Davidnic Have Fun Supporter

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    Well I think they said the accusations did not prove anything when he was suspended because that was pending the investigation. He saw the investigation was going to be bad for him so he complained to people who trusted him and also had their own issues with the canonical process to publicly suggest he go it on his own then he filed a civil suit to impede the Church investigation. The SOLT complained that the lawsuit prevented them from finishing but were going to go with what they had. Knowing what it was Corapi resigned. SOLT then had to go public because he was doing his odd Black Sheep Dog thing and misleading the faithful.

    That is, I think the likely way it went down. In addition SOLT knows they gave him way too much freedom and perks and were part of how it all went down so they are also trying to clean up some stuff. The founder of SOLT did let him live outside of community for so long (opposed to what canon law says) and gave him many passes and perks no one else got; which he apparently abused. And he is a friend of Corapi too.

    There are layers to this. All in all I think John Corapi's issues with brushing off his vow of obedience speaks the loudest to me. Not just that he is, but the very caustic way he is doing it.
     
  3. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    I thought that too. I see the Sheepdog thing as part of his book he already had planned that he just wants to push through.

    I have an opinion, that I reserve every right to be corrected on by the hard evidence, and its that he knows he is guilty and just can't come to admit it. Just imagine the humiliation of such hypocrisy. He really doesn't need to admit it publicly for any practical reason either. I mean, its not a crime to sin or quit the priesthood and either way, he has blown his vocation, which he sees as only a preacher, and feels he is fine without it. The temptations to do what he has done must have been overwhelming. Which is all understandably human, especially if in the confused state of sin. All the more reason for the Church not to take folks with underlying issues like depression, addiction or homosexual orientations and put them in such positions of stress and trial. Poor judgment on his superiors imo.

    Look at the very end of that video. Look at his face in the last 2 seconds. He looks dejected, sad and broken. It looks like a classic case of pride overcoming putting ones actions where their mouth is. I feel pity for for him, guilty or not.
     
  4. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina New Member

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    And that is why I have been praying:

    Lord Jesus Christ, Son and Word of the Living God, have mercy on Thy priest, John Corapi, and save him.

    We need more prayers of intercession for John Corapi and for all US sinners.

    Not one of us is sinless.
     
  5. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    What they said before was they had not yet made a determination not that they couldn't. I addressed this in this post here:
    Update on Fr. John Corapi - Page 75 - Christian Forums

    Look again.

    They did not say they weren't able to determine his guilt.

    They said they had not yet arrived at any conclusion . . that they had not yet determined guilt.

    They did not say one way or the other that they could or could not.

    That they said they had not yet arrived at any conclusion, any determination speaks of the point in the process they were at - they had not made any official pronouncement. . . I would think in hopes that Corapi would change his mind and cooperate with them.

    When they got his letter, it is evident they took the evidence they had and proceeded to the next step . they halted, concluded the investigation and arrived at a determination (you do not arrive at a conclusion until you finish your investigation just as a judge and jury, even if they know they have the evidence to convict, will not say they have arrived at a conclusion until the proceedings have come to an end). . he is guilty and unfit for ministry.


    They are not relying on the accuser. . . . they are relying on evidence including that from Corapi himself. That is not spurious and to suggest they would make a judgment on evidence that could be spurious does them a great diservice, and plants doubt as to their competency in the minds of readers unfamiliar with the nature of the evidence they have.

    And you don't know the sun will indeed come up tomorrow. . . but you have reasonable assurance it will.

    The evidence the SOLT has is of a high enough nature that they have the same reasonable assurance, if not more so.

    To try to cast doubt on the SOLT in the face of all the evidence we are aware of ourselves is as ridiculous as trying to cast doubt that the sun may not rise tomorrow.



    That's your choice. If their word is not good enough for you, then isn't that casting doubt on the character of their leaders in them minds of those who read your comments and don't know better?


    As I pointed out, nothing can come of the court case in regards to his innocence or guilt because the burden of proof is on him, not her, and if he is guilty he is not going to produce the evidence to prove he is guilty of what she accuses. And there is no proof as to his innocence - that is impossible for him to prove.

    All that can come of the court case is she is found guilty of breaking a non disclosure agreement and those can be broken in a court of law. . .

    You will never have what you seek . . . and what you seek is not logically reasonable to seek in the first place.



    Given the sum total of the evidence, it is the only logical and reasonable thing to do.

    I have no reason to believe they are lying or incompetent.

    I have every reason to believe Corapi is lying.

    One should never take the side of a priest against the Church unless they have cold, hard facts in hand. If they do, they are then duty bound to make the Church aware of them.

    In this case, the cold, hard facts are in the hands of the Church and Corapi has been found guilty and deemed unfit for ministry.




    No . . the Church is not transparent like that Joab. . never has been .. never will be.

    The faithful are faithful not because the Church proves all Her actions and decisions to the satisfaction of Her children, but because they follower Her, their mother, even if they do not fully understand, and do so in childlike faith and trust that She knows what is best.


    I'm sorry Joab, but your posts have been full of insinuation that they either don't know what they are doing or have mal intent, for if you believed they did know what they were doing, then there would no longer be any reason to sit on the fence. Their statement would be accepted as proof enough of his guilt.

    By continually calling into question the SOLT, who has officially come out on record stating Corapi is definitely guilty of the charges against him, one does indeed accuse their leadership through constantly calling them into question, by insinuation and/or implication, of incompetence at the least or evil intent and malice at the worst.


    They never said that there was no proof. . .see above. You have taken one thing and made it mean something else. Just as judge will not tell you before he is done hearing the evidence, even if the evidence makes the person clearly guilty, that he has such evidence. . . he will not make a determination until it is done, even if he already knows what that determination will be.

    You have simply misunderstood what they said.

    Additionally, the continual proclaiming that there is a question of trust in regards to the leadership of the SOLT is indeed accusing them by implication and/or insinuation of incompetence at best or malice and evil intent at worst.
     
  6. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    Amen.
     
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  7. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    They never said they didn't have proof. They said they had not yet made a determination - this would refer to an official determination.

    Two very different things.


    They then, when it became necessary, made their official determination public.
     
  8. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    What I am saying is what they are believing could be deceptions. The devil can deceive anyone. Courts are decieved every day. Its not unheard of. All we know is that SOLT believe true what we have no knowlege of. Thats good enough to declare him unfit for the priesthood sure, and really, thats all that matters. It doesn't prove any particular accusation or disprove any particular defense specifically. I'd guess there are some of each that are true and others not. If you want to assume the SOLT are perfect in all this, after being a part of this in the first place, then thats your choice.
     
  9. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    I just went back and re-read the early June SOLT statement:

    That is saying the allegations were not determined to be credible at the time he resigned.

    Later statements claim his resignation ceased the investigation.

    So how did they get from unsubstantiated allegations to a conclusion of guilt if they weren't even investigating?

    Maybe I have it wrong or am missing that they actually did continue the investigation on their own, without the accusers testimony, but something smells fishy to me.
     
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  10. LinuxUser

    LinuxUser New Member

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    I am a fervent supporter of Fr. Corapi against the haters and everyone has seen that. As I was going to the store this thought raced through my "I wonder if Martin Luther started like this" I wonder how long before a second great Reformation. [​IMG]
     
  11. Davidnic

    Davidnic Have Fun Supporter

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    I think they wanted more proof and he blocked them. That part seems to be pretty obvious. They had to go public. If he was misleading the faithful they had no real choice.
     
  12. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    Maybe he is starting to have a change of heart. Did you notice in the BSD video he says not to follow him?
     
  13. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    But see it's not about perfection at all, for even a full trial may not yield perfect results.

    The issue is reasonable doubt, and the evidence they have has removed all reasonable doubt

    And we don't "just" know that the SOLT "believes" he is guilty. We know the nature of the evidence used to reach their conclusion. It is not simply a "belief" . it is an educated determination.

    Holding their statement in reserve and placing it on the shelf because of matters of trust in their ability to know what they are doing and continually announcing that in a public forum fosters doubt in the minds of others on the competency or motivation of the leaders of the SOLT.


    There is an appeal process within the Catholic Church that if Corapi is innocent, he can avail himself of - all the way to the Vatican. If he is innocent, he has nothing to lose by doing so. . .

    But he has already informed us he wants nothing to do with Church court process . . instead turning to the secular system .. .I do not anticipate he will be changing his mind now even though he has nothing to lose now if he does so and is innocent.

    But if he is guilty, it will become even more clear. And for someone trying to hide things, that would be the last thing such a one would want to have happen.


    Fr Corapi's actions speak louder than his words. Things just don't add up.

    The SOLT has, to the contrary, acted appropriately and consistently with their words.

    Corapi has no credibility.

    The SOLT has tremendous credibility.


    It is wrong to continue to publicly cast them in a questionable light, questioning their trustworthiness, competency and/or motivation simply because one does not have access to the evidence they have in hand.
     
  14. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    No they didn't. Which is why it was not detraction for them to go public. There was an objective need to do so.

    And they wanted the testimony of witnesses that he prevented them from getting. But they found other evidence. We are not privileged to know when they had this evidence. My point was simply that they never denied having such evidence or stated they could not arrive at a decision earlier, just that they had not done so.
     
  15. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

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    I have reasonable doubts about what exactly has transpired.
     
  16. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    And here you have it in a nutshell folks!

    Fr Corapi - the next Martin Luther declared so by one of his most ardent supporters.


    Linux - you are Catholic right?

    You do understand that Martin Luther did not lead a reformation . he lead a revolt and took people away from the truth and Church?

    You do know his so called "reforms" in doctrine were declared heresies by the Church?

    You do understand the real reformation which Luther had no hand in, was called the Counter Reformation where people flocked back to the Church in droves after being deceived by the rebel Luther?
     
  17. thereselittleflower

    thereselittleflower New Member

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    That's not really the point.

    The point is, instead of keeping such thoughts private at this point, the continual expression of such doubts about the SOLT's determination raises questions in the minds of others as to the trustworthiness and/or competency of the leadership of the SOLT. . and that, my friend, is simply wrong to do.
     
  18. Davidnic

    Davidnic Have Fun Supporter

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    Generating reports again so I am closing it until staff can review it all.
     
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