University of Toronto Dumps Transgender Bathrooms After Peeping Incidents

seashale76

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http://www.dailywire.com/news/330/university-toronto-dumps-transgender-bathrooms-pardes-seleh

The University is temporarily changing its policy on gender-neutral bathrooms after two separate incidents of "voyeurism" were reported on campus September 15 and 19. Male students within the University’s Whitney Hall student residence were caught holding their cellphones over female students’ shower stalls and filming them as they showered.

Duh. Because nobody could see this coming, right?
 

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Does anybody have a source other than this obviously-biased article that these bathrooms were actually "transgender" bathrooms and not merely the co-ed facilities that have existed on campuses for decades? Their response was:

“Given the serious nature of these incidents and the impact on directly affected students, we made the decision to specifically designate some washrooms in Whitney Hall for those who identify as men and those who identify as women,” Scott said.

To me, that sounds like they're still accommodating transgender students.
 
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heatedmonk

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Why would a male who dresses like a female have a problem using the men's room? Vice versa, a woman who dresses like a man can very easily use the women's room.
Why should women then be the one's that are trespassed upon in the bathroom, the dressing rooms, the locker rooms and even the showers, if a male claims he's a woman, with all his genitalia still in tact, and the only thing that accompanies that claim is his attire? Why should any woman have to suffer what is, by laws older than the concession to this type behavior and demand for right of trespass, indecent exposure of a male in a female designated facility that implies right to privacy.
The world is changing to accommodate one sector of society at the expense of another. That's not equality.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Does anybody have a source other than this obviously-biased article that these bathrooms were actually "transgender" bathrooms and not merely the co-ed facilities that have existed on campuses for decades? Their response was:

To me, that sounds like they're still accommodating transgender students.

It appears the article title was a bit misleading...transgender bathroom and gender neutral bathroom doesn't really equate to the same thing (picture from the bathroom in question).

ap070823016004.jpg


Given that it was a gender neutral restroom, transgenderism (if that's a word?) didn't even have anything to do with the story.

However, bathroom issues don't seem to be a new thing for Toronto...
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/s...laiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

It's unfortunate that people are born with a DSM-5 disorder that makes them feel like their biological sex doesn't match their gender identity...hopefully down the road doctors devise a treatment of some sort much like they have for other DSM-5 personality disorders, however, in terms of the bathroom situation, there's simply no way to accommodate everyone's feelings, while at the same time guaranteeing that lewd conduct won't take place.

The harsh reality is that, if you make a policy that states "someone who identifies as a woman can use the women's facilities", there are going to be a few straight men who use that to their inappropriate advantage and try to gain access for a free peek at some ladies.

As the old saying goes..."it's like throwing a picnic at the beach...and then getting mad when the seagulls show up"
 
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heatedmonk

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As the old saying goes..."it's like throwing a picnic at the beach...and then getting mad when the seagulls show up"
That's a very poor analogy.

From the link above:
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ in order to assault women in shelter
TORONTO, March 4, 2014 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”

Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012......



Who didn't see that coming?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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That's a very poor analogy.

From the link above:
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ in order to assault women in shelter
TORONTO, March 4, 2014 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”

Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012......



Who didn't see that coming?

I think you misunderstood the content of my post...

The "it's like throwing a picnic at the beach, and then getting mad when the seagulls show up" is on old saying that precisely means "who didn't see that coming?"
 
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iluvatar5150

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It appears the article title was a bit misleading...transgender bathroom and gender neutral bathroom doesn't really equate to the same thing (picture from the bathroom in question).

ap070823016004.jpg

FWIW, I'm reasonably certain that the photo in the story is not of a bathroom at the University of Toronto. The photo is credited to AP photographer Toby Talbot, who, according to what I could find, retired from the AP in 2013.

Story announcing his retirement.
Twitter feed listing him as a "former AP photographer".

I couldn't find the original source for this exact photo, but I did find another photo that appears to be of the same bathroom door. It's dated 2007 and claims to be of a bathroom at the University of Vermont:

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/42-71096470/transgender-americans5-things

Given that it was a gender neutral restroom, transgenderism (if that's a word?) didn't even have anything to do with the story.

Yep.
 
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Why would a male who dresses like a female have a problem using the men's room? Vice versa, a woman who dresses like a man can very easily use the women's room.
Why should women then be the one's that are trespassed upon in the bathroom, the dressing rooms, the locker rooms and even the showers, if a male claims he's a woman, with all his genitalia still in tact, and the only thing that accompanies that claim is his attire? Why should any woman have to suffer what is, by laws older than the concession to this type behavior and demand for right of trespass, indecent exposure of a male in a female designated facility that implies right to privacy.
The world is changing to accommodate one sector of society at the expense of another. That's not equality.

People dressed in women's garb going into a men's restroom and people dressed in women's garb going into a women's restroom can be putting themselves at risk of being assaulted and/or harassed.

It seems to me that if one can be filmed by holding a phone over the partition of a shower or toilet stall, the problem is not with transgender people needing proper accommodations but with the accommodations themselves being constructed so that there is potential visual access. Making accommodations safer for trans people can amount to making them safer for everyone if we would just think this through rather than being stuck thinking that our traditional stall configurations are the end all to be all and must be preserved at all costs.
 
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heatedmonk

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People dressed in women's garb going into a men's restroom and people dressed in women's garb going into a women's restroom can be putting themselves at risk of being assaulted and/or harassed.
And as the article in the OP depicts, they are. But so too can natural born people dressed as pertains to their sex, not cross identifying, can be harassed and assaulted by those in disguise as the opposite of their natural sex.

A man who intends to assault women can dress as a woman and lay in wait in public women's facilities. And he's allowed to enter by law. So that no one would think anything of what is an obvious male dressed as a woman entering a woman's bathroom.
What then? Traditional stall configurations, with signs depicting exclusive access, "Men's Room" "Ladies Room", afford protection from such predators. Because a man dressed as a woman entering a "Ladies Room" can be reported, followed, identified and arrested should he make trouble.

So what's the solution then?
 
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That article is pretty misleading as to what the actual issue was. It wasn't trans students.

What's more, if the restrooms were of the type actually pictured in the article, this could not have happened.

I also suspect that the men who filmed the women showering would be the very ones most likely to harass or assault trans women if they were forced to use the men's restroom. It would be part and parcel to the type of disrespect toward others' sexuality and privacy they demonstrated.
 
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heatedmonk

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And yet what is often overlooked or dismissed in the name of "tolerance" , is cross dressed males disrespecting women's sexuality and privacy when demanding the right as a trans-man to enter the traditional "Ladies Room". Because that demand then escalates to the demand to enter into dressing rooms. A case that made news when a man was refused entry into a woman's dressing room in a bridal shop. And then the demand moves to women's locker rooms, and of course showers.

Wherein do women have the right to respect of sexuality and privacy from men's access? When does tolerance for women having their right to security and privacy enter in?
 
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Glass*Soul

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And yet what is often overlooked or dismissed in the name of "tolerance" , is cross dressed males disrespecting women's sexuality and privacy when demanding the right as a trans-man to enter the traditional "Ladies Room". Because that demand then escalates to the demand to enter into dressing rooms. A case that made news when a man was refused entry into a woman's dressing room in a bridal shop. And then the demand moves to women's locker rooms, and of course showers.

Wherein do women have the right to respect of sexuality and privacy from men's access? When does tolerance for women having their right to security and privacy enter in?

I think the problem is that we are tending to frame this as a cis women vs transgender people issue. Let's look at what would constitute a win-win situation. Can we rethink public facilities in a way that makes everyone more respected and safe: Women and girls, trans people, lactating mothers, parents tending to small children, special needs people with helpers of the opposite sex--these are all people who need essentially the same thing in order to be appropriately, safely and respectfully accommodated.

(BTW a trans man is someone who identifies as male, so a trans man wouldn't be wanting to enter a women's restroom, but a men's.)

One of the things I admire about Jesus' ministry is the way in which he approached tricky questions that seemed insoluble as framed by the askers by re-framing them.
 
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heatedmonk

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I think the problem is that we are tending to frame this as a cis women vs transgender people issue. Let's look at what would constitute a win-win situation. Can we rethink public facilities in a way that makes everyone more respected and safe: Women and girls, trans people, lactating mothers, parents tending to small children, special needs people with helpers of the opposite sex--these are all people who need essentially the same thing in order to be appropriately, safely and respectfully accommodated.
Single room gender friendly, made to accommodate handicapped persons also, would be one route to take. Rather than one huge building with multiple stalls.

(BTW a trans man is someone who identifies as male, so a trans man wouldn't be wanting to enter a women's restroom, but a men's.)
So it varies I guess. I've used the term trans-man before elsewhere and was told that's a term that identifies a man who identifies as a woman. I.E. A man who's trans(itioned) to female.


One of the things I admire about Jesus' ministry is the way in which he approached tricky questions that seemed insoluble as framed by the askers by re-framing them.
I don't think he ever encountered this topic. ;)
 
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craigerNY

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Most of what I do for fun involves the outdoors, hiking, backpacking, cycling, camping etc. The world is my toilet...best bathroom ever. I poop the most at home, second place would be at work and after that in the woods (this afternoon even). I am so glad that is largely the extent of where most of my bodily waste functions take place.

Those are hard facts. The rest of what is going on in this thread I can not confirm.
 
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Glass*Soul

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Single room gender friendly, made to accommodate handicapped persons also, would be one route to take. Rather than one huge building with multiple stalls.

Agreed. For now, introducing just a couple of these along side existing gender segregated restrooms could serve as a stop-gap measure.

In the meantime, allowing trans people to use the restroom they prefer is the safest thing for them and apparently does not increase the likelihood of cis girls and women being preyed upon. This article breaks it down state-by-state among those which have actually prohibited discrimination in bathroom facilities: http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533

So it varies I guess. I've used the term trans-man before elsewhere and was told that's a term that identifies a man who identifies as a woman. I.E. A man who's trans(itioned) to female.

Interesting. Here's Wikipedia on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man


I don't think he ever encountered this topic. ;)

What do you think he would have said if he had?
 
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heatedmonk

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Agreed. For now, introducing just a couple of these along side existing gender segregated restrooms could serve as a stop-gap measure.

In the meantime, allowing trans people to use the restroom they prefer is the safest thing for them and apparently does not increase the likelihood of cis girls and women being preyed upon. This article breaks it down state-by-state among those which have actually prohibited discrimination in bathroom facilities: http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533
Bathrooms not so much the issue due to the stall factor in the case of men entering women's bathrooms.
Dressing rooms, locker rooms, and showers, is a different thing. And we have to remember children being a consideration as well and the impact on them.



Interesting. Here's Wikipedia on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man
Thank you. :)




What do you think he would have said if he had?
Well, in the old testament he said , paraphrasing here, cross dressing was a sin.
I wouldn't presume to think he'd changed his mind in the NT.Nor would I presume what he'd say had the OT verse not been present as a reference.
Though I do not believe God creates mistakes. Especially when scripture tells me he knew me (us) before the womb and knitted us together per his will.
 
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