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Featured Universal Truth's...?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Neogaia777, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Errrrm hello???? The thread was asking for universal truths such as "karma" and "reincarnation" which don't come from the Bible either. Karma is a philosophy in Buddhist and Hindu religions and the Bible is diametrically opposed to reincarnation. That's a bit of a double standard. AND it's ---->you<----posting links and pages to the Urantia Book.

    And BTW, students of the UB have no preacher, we have no leader other than the Father within as taught by Jesus IN THE BIBLE! We have no ecclesiastical authority, no dogma and no evil, petrifying, stunting doctrines! We mostly read independently, some cities have study groups that meet in homes, read, discuss and eat cake! The Book is in tiny trust in Chicago. So the intolerant, mind controlled fear that people on this forum who follow me around and act like 5 year olds is much more like a CULT than you will find among UB readers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  2. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Responding to a question from the Pharisees about when the Kingdom of God would come, Jesus said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you ” (Luke 17:20-21).
     
  3. Endtime Survivors

    Endtime Survivors prophecy link in my profile!

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    I think there can be truth in both karma and "you reap what you sow". Here's the definition of Karma: "(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences".

    That's not entirely inconsistent with the Christian principle of every person being rewarded according to their works".

    But that's the next life. In this current life it's not so clear. As Galatea suggested, not all suffering is a result of the person's behavior. When passing a blind man, the disciples asked, "who sinned that this man was born blind" and Jesus answered that no one had sinned, but rather he was born blind so that God's glory could be shown,(I personally interpret that as God's glory being shown through people taking care of one another).

    And yet, there are times when we do feel the consequences of our behavior. There may be times when God will heap onto us trials for refinement. If I'm busy, busy, busy pushing past people and getting angry that they are "in my way" then perhaps God will organize for me to break a leg in the hope that I will learn what it's like to be slow and sometimes in other people's way. Whether one would view this scenario as Karma or a learning experience depends on how one would choose to view it.

    I can appreciate some aspects of the ideology behind Karma, but I think practical reality needs more flexibility than what Karma offers.
     
  4. Endtime Survivors

    Endtime Survivors prophecy link in my profile!

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    Fantastic comparison!
     
  5. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    I'd hardly call genocide and sexual slavery "benefit of the subject". I know you're going to say "It was for the Israelites", but there's my problem. God only supported the Israelites in the Old Testament and destroyed everyone else. Then in the New Testament he was suddenly for all people. The stuff in the OT was a benefit to the Israelites alone, as I don't think everyone in the other tribes was irredeemably evil. The Israelites could have been commanded by God to convert them, (after all God could have changed their minds, he did Pharaoh's) rather than saying to murder everyone, even babies, and show no pity. That's not love. If we take the definition of love as being what it is in 1 Corinthians 13:4-5 - Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. - those actions aren't love, and God isn't like that in the OT either.


    But God could easily have changed their minds and then asked the Israelites to convert them. The "lesser of two evils" thing applies if there's no other option. God could easily have created a third option. If I, a finite human, could come up with that idea, why couldn't God, who is infinite, have done it?

    Again, the stuff in the Old Testament does not at all fall in line with the terrible things in the Old Testament. The things in the OT are only shows of love if you warp the definition of "love" so that it is nothing close to how the dictionary, human understanding, or even the Bible itself says it is.
     
  6. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Well-Known Member

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    Then sadly, you do not know and understand God very well.
     
  7. Widlast

    Widlast Well-Known Member

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    "Karma" like many Hindu concepts, is not particularly well defined and like most superstitions only functions when convenient.

    It would be better to go with "as ye mete, so shall it be meted unto you" or "throw your bread upon the waters and it will return to you seven-fold".
    The point being that there is justice in the universe, and those that do good will get good in return, while those who do evil will get evil back.
    Though all this happens in God's good time, so from a mortal point of view evil people often seem to get a free ride and the "good" often suffer.

    Reincarnation does not occur, that is a pagan myth.

    Do you ancestors' spirits exist? Yes, but they do not pester the living nor affect the living in any tangible way.

    Astral projection is another pagan myth. Some saints have been able to "bi-locate", but this only occurs under the express will of God for a particular purpose. Saints don't do anything "wondrous" recreationally.

    "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" was Babylonian law, NOT Mosaic law.
    Besides, all that leads to is a lot of blind toothless people.

    "Do unto others" is a wise suggestion, not a "truth".
     
  8. Colter

    Colter Member

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    The Old Testament books were written by the Hebrew holy men and for an Israelite audience. After the loss of their nationalist pride and subsequent Babylonian captivity, the Hebrew priest went to the other extreme and completely revamped their entire history. The converts to the Jesus movement who were Jews believed Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah who would soon return to do what the Messiah was expected to do the first time he came. In doing so they exploited the OT prophets and theology.

    Jesus reveled the true Father in his life, that revelation should have put to rest the older more primitive concepts of well intentioned Israelites.

    I applaud you for the courage to stand up and defend the character of God.
     
  9. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God did not only support the Israelites. He supported everyone who revered him as God. Everyone, including, the Israelites were evil. God's plan was for the Jews to bring the good news to the world. It is pretty easy to make a case that God was trying to save the most people in the long-term. A community that produces redeemable and unredeemable people that is allowed to continue to prosper can easily end up causing fewer people to be saved in the long-run overall. In fact, that is the culture we appear to have today. The Lord has not destroyed us all as we deserve, because he wants to save some. You seem to think that condemned, evil people have rights that God denies them. He already offered to save them and they rejected it. What else should he do?
     
  10. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi ES, perhaps not:

    I believe the NASB's choice to translate ἐντός [entos] as "in your midst" makes for a far more proper/sensible and contextual understanding of this passage in Luke, don't you (though the kingdom of God can, of course, be found within the hearts of all who have become true believers).

    20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
    21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” ~Luke 17
    As for Buddha's quote, since he didn't believe in "god", where else but "inward" would he have chosen to look for the peace that God offers to us in Christ alone? Our "peace" comes from outside of ourselves .. John 14:27.

    Yours in Christ,
    David



    "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not
    as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your
    heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful"

    John 14:27
     
  11. Anguspure

    Anguspure Slave Supporter

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    This is not true. Much of the OT testament story is about how the Israelites get beaten up repeatedly because they have repeatedly failed to keep the covenant that was made between themselves and their God, that covenant being for the purpose of being the light of the world for the blessing of all nations. God said to Abraham: through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

    The definition of Love given in 1 Corinthians is given from the character of God in the OT. It is a skewed perspective that blames God for the negative consequence of the actions of the enemies of God.

    God does not contravene the gift of free will that he has given mankind. An example would be the Amelekites who were given over 400 years to change their minds about the Jews but who chose instead to attack the vulnerable 1/4 of the Jewish nation from the rear while they were wandering in the desert, as a demonstration of their intense desire to wipe the light of the world from the planet.
    This is repeated over and over again through history and unless you wish the world and yourself to face eternal destruction you would agree that the only appropriate response was to destroy the enemies of God.

    If you take the long view with a perspective for what is happening in the context of the promise that was given to Adam, Abraham and Moses, then you might find that the Loving God has been working through some difficult circumstances that the enemies of the light have made for us, with the view of saving as many as possible from eternal destruction.
    I count myself as one of the Loved ones and recognize that all of the hard things that my God has allowed or orchestrated throughout history have been done so against those who would have seen me and others like me fall to eternal destruction, and so my God has been a God of Love.
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    One can decide for themselves if the concept of Karma has to include past and future lives or not...

    Even if it did, what about Jesus forgiving the sins of the past, and the future, reconciling them all to God, was he redeeming his ancestors or past lives, and also ones that would come after him... Matthew points out his geneology on purpose, for a purpose I believe other than just prophecy or to just point out his lineage as the rightful king and Son of Adam, Son of God...

    If Jesus was paying for the sins of the past and redeeming them, are our spirits somehow connected to our ancestor's spirits and Jesus was paying for, making penance for redeeming them...

    Sins get carried over from our ancestor's and we often have to contend with their issues and problems with sins, were connected to them in this way somehow... What does God mean when he says he "visits the sins of the Fathers upon the son's for so many generations...?

    But, Karma does not have to mean past lives or ancestor's lives, it could just mean this life for an individual...

    God Bless!
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You know, I'm getting really sick and tired of people throwing out scripture as if they proved something (wrong) or think they made a valid point, when they are very, very far from it...

    How does John 14:27 prove that our peace from God comes from outside and not inside ourselves???

    Please explain, please...? (if you can) If anything, that verse actually does more in proving that it can be and come from within our own hearts, than doing anything else besides that...?

    The entire of kingdom of God can come from and be "within" a man or person, the battle or war between heaven and earth also can be all contained and be being done and waged from "within" a person...

    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Everyone who has trouble in this world and does not have a good life, most of them, the majority, if not all of us, deserve it.. The minority who may exist that perhaps do not deserve it, are going through it, to attain to a very high position and exceedingly great reward in heaven...

    Those who do not get the trouble that they deserve, but, well, most of them do actually, examine their lives closely and in depth and you'll see just how miserable and tormented they really are... But, anyways those who do not get the trouble and torment they deserve in this life, and they deserve trouble and torment, will get it in full measure in the next life...

    You reap what you sow, or karma, does not only apply to this life alone, but, you have to take in the next one as well, then it is just...

    God Bless
     
  15. dqhall

    dqhall Active Member Supporter

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    Buddha came hundreds of years before Christ. He taught people they should not murder. His followers will not want to kill a cow, much less burn one on a pile of wood as an offering to try to please someone claiming to know a God described in the books of Moses. Who knew God was trying to end murder and sacrifice?

    I like to read the teachings of Christ, and not be ignorant of others who may have interesting proverbs. Christ could not be the only one who ever had a useful word to say.
     
  16. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi dq, I think the Buddha had many excellent and wise things to say (I have quoted his sayings upon occasion, in fact), but as Christians, we do not look within ourselves as Buddha suggests to find peace.

    That our peace is found in God alone is the point I was laboring to make.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    --David
     
  17. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi N777, I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you about people suffering because they "deserve" it. One need only take a quick walk through a Children's Hospital, or look to the third world, to see how horribly mistaken and cruel such thinking is. Do you really believe that sick children, or people who live in utter poverty and are starving to death under a totalitarian regime, "deserve" what they get :scratch: (remember that starvation is the #1 killer of people in this world, even today).

    And while "part" of the concept of Karma could be applied to "part" of what is taught by Christianity, all of Karma's "baggage" (i.e. past and future "lives", people always getting what they deserve, etc.) truly makes such a comparison an impossibility.

    Also, the concept of "reaping what you sow" in Christianity has far more to do with spiritual, not physical reaping (for instance, the passages concerning reaping and sowing in the NT .. Galatians 6; 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 .. specifically/contextually refer to the "giving" of your physical resources in this life to receive a spiritual benefit/reward in the age to come).

    As for Christians, there isn't a one of us who will reap what we truly DESERVE in the age to come, is there ;) Rather, we will "reap" what Christ deserves :amen:

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    Yours in Christ,
    David
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  18. dqhall

    dqhall Active Member Supporter

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    If God is not within a person, perhaps one would need to change his/her thoughts and actions to accommodate God. People might also learn about God from books or the conversations of others. I do not need to go somewhere else to find God, I might pray inside a small room, in a forest green or upon the deep blue sea to try to find God.

    Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, enter into your inner room, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

    Luke 17:21 "neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    There will be many people, who consider themselves adults, who will be taught and be lorded over by many children in heaven...

    In this world, sometimes the innocent suffer for and because of others sins, Christ being a prime example, which is why he will have the position he will have in heaven, as will many, many small children who are much more like him than many so-called adults are...

    God Bless!
     
  20. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    The HS indwells believers dq, but our peace is still found in Him, not within ourselves. We look outside of "ourselves" to Him to find peace (a truth which is perhaps most obvious when thought of in regard to those who have not yet become Christians).

    As far as Luke 17:21 goes, the Lord was addressing the Pharisees. Do you really believe that He was telling them to look within themselves to find the "kingdom of God"? There is simply no comparing the true "meaning" of Buddha's quote (to look within ourselves to find peace) with the truth the Lord taught us in Luke 17:21.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    --David