Universal reconciliation

DrBubbaLove

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So as I kept saying, in order to preserve their sacred belief in UR, they are willing to say that He Who Alone is ALL Good, is not really Good. And most orthodox will recognize the logical fallacy of believing Good can do evil or is not All Good. For just one among many reason it would mean there would have to be One who is All Good who is greater than this god they imagine.
 
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Noxot

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I'm reading a book a book whose purpose is to give "three views of hell", traditional, anihilation, and universal reconciliation. My question is, " do you think universal reconciliation is heresy?
I don't think that "God is love" is heresy at all.
 
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2KnowHim

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Am confused. First a claim is made that one never said God Created Evil and then you proudly endorse someone saying God Created Evil.
Just so am clear, I know Hillsage believes this lie, is this your belief as well?

Do you know the difference between Created and existed or being the source of something?
I have said all along that I believed that Evil existed because God did and God is Good, so the opposite of that would automatically be there.
 
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2KnowHim

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Alive as in alive with no intelligence so it can't do evil. Trees aren't evil and I don't understand how anyone can come up with that concept.

Well I guess you would have a hard time believing that trees can clap their hands, and walk too ha?
But they can according to The Word.

Isa 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
 
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Hillsage

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Alive as in alive with no intelligence so it can't do evil. Trees aren't evil and I don't understand how anyone can come up with that concept.
Since all of creation has its existence from God's creative Spirit, I've no problem saying the tree has an intelligence even as the rock crying out would have intelligence. I'm not saying they have a brain or soul. This is just my opinion.

And I have no problem saying the tree did not contain some created property which infected Adam with evil like some kind of virus. Eating the fruit was simply the act of disobedience which had been nothing but a temptation up to that point. Evil is not a created entity but it came from God as a contrast to good. In not eating they walked in 'good' in eating they did 'evil'....by God's definition and with His foreknowledge.
 
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2KnowHim

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So as I kept saying, in order to preserve their sacred belief in UR, they are willing to say that He Who Alone is ALL Good, is not really Good. And most orthodox will recognize the logical fallacy of believing Good can do evil or is not All Good. For just one among many reason it would mean there would have to be One who is All Good who is greater than this god they imagine.

So let me see if I get this straight....You say God is All Good and that Adam was Perfect because God created him, therefore he had to be....let me ask you Dr. how does perfection Fall into a state of Chaos, sin, and Death if it was perfect from it's beginning?

The difference between our views is you have Him creating everthing perfect from the beginning and then ending up Evil in the end by Tormenting people forever in a burning fire....that's evil.
We have Him creating with the potenial to fall so that we would need Him in every aspect of our lives and through that process would come to Know Him, and in the End Restoring us all. ....yeah I'll stick to the Good News, God is Good even in the End. Or should I say Especially in The End.
 
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2KnowHim

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A Quote from a dear Brother of mine.
(What was forbidden, people perish for the lack of.
God calls everyone to reason with Him.)

Read this one yrs. ago, don't know who said it, but I believe it with all my heart.
(The sacrifice of Christ's life must be at least as equal to the Fall of mankind, or else it is in vain, if it's not, then Sin and death is more powerful than God's Righteousness, and that just cannot be.)
 
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jugghead

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And if all that is not enough, how about this: if nakedness is just another way of saying "unrighteous" .... then Adam never fell in the first place .... it was because of his eating the nakedness was revealed ..... he was already in the fallen state .... the eating just revealed it.
 
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jugghead

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my people perish from lack of knowledge .... what knowledge are they lacking? God's knowledge that He was, is and always will be a forgiving God through sacrifice ... and if men do not want to believe that the Sacrifice of Christ was enough for all (all sins AND all men)... then they shall die in that lack of knowledge AND UNDERSTANDING
 
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jerry kelso

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I never said God Created Evil, and as for the rest of your post, IMO it is nothing more than nonsense, created by the imaginations of mens carnal minds, trying to interpret those scriptures you listed. That is something you have been taught by the church and NOT by The Spirit of God. So we have nothing more to say.

2knowhim,

1. Nonsense? You have scripture to prove what I posted is wrong? You really ought to be careful what you say is not by the Spirit of God when you don't back it up by scripture. The reason you have nothing to say is most likely because you cannot rebut what I said. This means that all you have said is your opinion and that definitely is not by the Spirit of God. Get real. Jerry Kelso
 
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2KnowHim

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So evil or sin came before Adam and it originated within Lucifer by his ability to make a freewill choice to sin which is an absence of perfection of holiness and righteousness of God.

Ok, you say that Lucifer was some perfect angel in the heavens that rebelled against God and sinned. And that's where it all began....bla, bla, bla......I have heard this all before, in fact I believe it too long ago, but that was because I was being taught those things by men at the time.

Satan was never perfect, he was a murderer from the beginning, he abode not in Truth, .....
The scriptures you listed speaks of "A Man"...in Ezk. and in Isa. both.
And if sin orignated with Lucifer "so called" alias satan, then why don't the scriptures say that by one Angel sin entered the world and death by sin passed upon all men?

But it don't, it says by ONE MAN sin entered and that man was Adam. etc. etc.
 
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2KnowHim

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Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Notice not an angel, but a man.
 
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jerry kelso

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Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Notice not an angel, but a man.

2knowhim,

I don't deny that scripture for he was the son of man and doubting Thomas called him God and he never rebuked him for calling him God.
God the father told the angels to worship the son and in another scripture he said he would share his glory with no other and yet he does with the son.
You can cherry pick scriptures but you have no basis on all the scriptures because you do not reconcile them together.
In John 10 the jews were mad because they accused him of claiming to be God and the truth was that he was. He quoted the scripture in their law it said, Ye are gods? So why get on to him for claiming to be the Son of God. If he didn't do the works of the father then don't believe him but even if they didn't believe him at least believe the works. He had the proof to back it up. Those men claiming to be gods; small capitol for they were not really Gods lot alone deity. They were upset because he was making himself equal with God like in John 7:19 and John 10. Philippians 2:6 says; Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Until you understand reconciling the scriptures properly together and understand the kenosis of Christ and fully God and fully Man you won't ever believe the Son being deity. Jerry Kelso
 
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2KnowHim

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I don't deny that scripture for he was the son of man and doubting Thomas called him God and he never rebuked him for calling him God.
God the father told the angels to worship the son and in another scripture he said he would share his glory with no other and yet he does with the son.
You can cherry pick scriptures but you have no basis on all the scriptures because you do not reconcile them together.
In John 10 the jews were mad because they accused him of claiming to be God and the truth was that he was. He quoted the scripture in their law it said, Ye are gods? So why get on to him for claiming to be the Son of God. If he didn't do the works of the father then don't believe him but even if they didn't believe him at least believe the works. He had the proof to back it up. Those men claiming to be gods; small capitol for they were not really Gods lot alone deity. They were upset because he was making himself equal with God like in John 7:19 and John 10. Philippians 2:6 says; Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Until you understand reconciling the scriptures properly together and understand the kenosis of Christ and fully God and fully Man you won't ever believe the Son being deity. Jerry Kelso

What on earth are you talking about? What has this got to do with Lucifer as being Perfect in heaven from the beginning? And you demand scripture, so I gave them and then you go on about me not believing in the deity of Christ, are you ok? When have I ever denied the diety of Jesus Christ? That's got nothing to do with the subject we were talking about.

And where is the scriptures that say this?.... "God the father told the angels to worship the son". If your talking about this one, then I still ask you to prove that Lucifer is talking about an Angel or refers to satan.
But if You have to change the subject to answer me, if this is your idea of convo. then I'm out.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
 
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Blades

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I'm reading a book a book whose purpose is to give "three views of hell", traditional, anihilation, and universal reconciliation. My question is, " do you think universal reconciliation is heresy?

Universal reconciliation.... is.... Gods great Plan of salvation, no less than the Sacraficial Lamb of God himself his own Son, from the Royal Household that rules the Universe was required for the task anything else would not have been sufficient, all of Creation and everybody who has or ever will live in it needed to be redeemed, only blood spilt from the Royal Household would be sufficient to accomplish Gods desire that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.
There is a Demonic teaching out there that tries to imply that not all people will come to Christ so Universal Reconcilliation is not possible, but this contradicts the word of god that clearly states, that NOBODY can come to CHRIST unless DRAWN (greek to drag) by the Father who sent him, we know that God is not a Liar, so we know the Liar is definitely the one who says that we have free will to choose to come to Christ, God decides who believes and who does not believe in Jesus not us...do not fall into the trap of believing the Doctrines of Demons forwarned of in Timothy
 
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Der Alte

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Universal reconciliation.... is.... Gods great Plan of salvation, no less than the Sacraficial Lamb of God himself his own Son, from the Royal Household that rules the Universe was required for the task anything else would not have been sufficient, all of Creation and everybody who has or ever will live in it needed to be redeemed, only blood spilt from the Royal Household would be sufficient to accomplish Gods desire that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

But for the fact that there is no scripture to support this. This is a pipe dream from human rationalization.

There is a Demonic teaching out there that tries to imply that not all people will come to Christ so Universal Reconcilliation is not possible, but this contradicts the word of god that clearly states, that NOBODY can come to CHRIST unless DRAWN (greek to drag) by the Father who sent him, we know that God is not a Liar, so we know the Liar is definitely the one who says that we have free will to choose to come to Christ, God decides who believes and who does not believe in Jesus not us...do not fall into the trap of believing the Doctrines of Demons forwarned of in Timothy

Jesus is not a liar.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus did not say "I don't know you." but "I never knew you." Millions upon millions of years from now God's unchanging word will still say "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

You say the liar says "we have free will to choose to come to Christ." God has always allowed man to choose

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 
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2KnowHim

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And again I say to you, Der alter, why are you quoting the law to us when we are in Christ, the law was not made for a Righteous man but for sinners...etc....For we are The Righteousness of God in Christ.

You quote the scriptures but have no understanding of what He means when He says "I never knew you"...
There are many Christians or at least they go by the name, But I can honestly say I don't know them either, and I don't mean in the flesh, what they look like, what race they are, where they live etc....But I don't know them in the same Spirit of Christ, they have a different spirit, like you and Dr. bubba, I can say with all assurety ..."I don't know you".
 
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James Is Back

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And again I say to you, Der alter, why are you quoting the law to us when we are in Christ, the law was not made for a Righteous man but for sinners...etc....For we are The Righteousness of God in Christ.

And a righteous man isn't a sinner?
 
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