U.S. Suicide Rate Surges to a 30-Year High

[Mayzoo]

Yet a CTRL-F search of the word "military" in the article comes up with "0". Please let me know if I can inform you any further on the topic linked in the OP.

I may be wrong, but I did not see the word civilian in the article either.

 

[The Cadet]

Do you research every single one of your opinions? If you do, you must have a lot of free time.

When I express a belief in public, I try to make it a point to ensure that those beliefs are not pulled directly out of my rear end. Not that that applies to you, personally, but this is just a general thing - I don't want to be wrong about stuff. Why is this somehow a bizarre idea to you? Yes, I don't want to make a fool of myself by saying something patently false and having people say, "Uh, excuse me, but you're totally wrong". If I haven't done the research myself, I try to not weigh in.

 

[The Cadet]

I can also see where someone might believe that the fight to retain our rights to own guns could contribute to suicide. I too disagree with that, but respect your opinion on it.

See, this is just not a matter of opinion. Whether or not easy access to guns contributes to suicide is not an "opinion". It's a statement of fact - there is an actual correct answer. And that answer seems to be "it does". A lot.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

In fact, when gun laws change, we can directly observe corresponding shifts in the number of suicides.

http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-rele...o-states-after-changes-in-state-gun-laws.html

And we even have a pretty good idea of why widespread gun ownership makes suicide more of an issue: because most suicides are impulsive, most people who get these impulses but don't carry through on them don't repeat it, and it's reasonably hard to fail to kill yourself with a gun. Now, I'll freely admit that these correlations do not carry well outside of the USA. I'm not sure why. But there's no denying that given what we know about suicides, guns play a pretty big role. They won't cause you to kill yourself, but they will make it a lot easier - and often, that really makes all the difference.

As for the gun fetish, most of my friends who have committed suicide over the years didn't use a gun. One or two did. None of them actually owned a gun, believe it or not.

Your experience is not representative.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

Gun suicide is more than twice as common as the next closest category, and makes up just about half of all successful suicides. It's not the most common way that suicide is attempted, that would be pills. But overdose is successful in about 3% of attempts; gun suicides are successful in 85% of attempts.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-features/guns-and-suicide-the-hidden-toll/

Though guns are not the most common method by which people attempt suicide, they are the most lethal. About 85 percent of suicide attempts with a firearm end in death. (Drug overdose, the most widely used method in suicide attempts, is fatal in less than 3 percent of cases.) Moreover, guns are an irreversible solution to what is often a passing crisis. Suicidal individuals who take pills or inhale car exhaust or use razors have time to reconsider their actions or summon help. With a firearm, once the trigger is pulled, there’s no turning back.​

By the way? It's moments like this where it becomes clear that the NRA's attempts to stop organizations like the CDC from studying guns aren't actually predicated on the well-being of the gun owners.

 

[rambot]

When I express a belief in public, I try to make it a point to ensure that those beliefs are not pulled directly out of my rear end. Not that that applies to you, personally, but this is just a general thing - I don't want to be wrong about stuff. Why is this somehow a bizarre idea to you? Yes, I don't want to make a fool of myself by saying something patently false and having people say, "Uh, excuse me, but you're totally wrong". If I haven't done the research myself, I try to not weigh in.

Not only that but research gives you an opportunity to LEARN new things and be challenged with new ideas.

 

[SummerMadness]

Do you research every single one of your opinions? If you do, you must have a lot of free time.

It was a comment in a thread about suicide, not a professional debate.

I think I'll just troll every thread now with "what's your evidence for that opinion".

And I'll demand that you prove that unicorns are not responsible for every opinion you make. An opinion is not a catchall for "I don't require a good reason for why I believe something," especially for quantifiable things. What I see more and more is people citing statistics using only correlations without the deeper analysis to demonstrate a given interpretation.

What has led to the increase in the suicide rate? This question is unanswered, but it is pretty clear that there is more than one contributing factor. Some will cite economic factors, which definitely plays a part, but does not explain the entire trend. Others will cite the relative flatness in funding to mental health, and yet others will cite higher divorce rate and adults remaining single into middle age. The reasons cited above are not just pulled out of thin air. Depression, anxiety, sense of hopelessness, these are risk factors for suicide. In many studies on suicide they don't just look at correlations, they explore those risk factors, usually comparing populations. For instance, unemployed individuals show significantly higher proportions of the risk factors for suicide compared to employed individuals (this is seen across multiple studies and countries). I think there is little doubt that economics is playing a role. However, I would go further to look at whether wage stagnation or people getting jobs that pay less plays a role in these numbers; the current president and the previous president love to cite unemployment numbers, but we all know that's not the only measure of economic health. Guns play a role in this because they are often the weapon of choice for suicides. Nonetheless, the decrease in use of guns and an increase in methods like suffocation probably means the trend in death bears more exploration.

However, one thing we know is that having an abortion is not a contributing factor to mental health problems. Of the studies done that can answer that research question, having an abortion is likely not the cause of depression among women that have them. Domestic violence and violence against women, on the other hand, appear to play a significant role, hence the call for more women's health clinics to have resources to address these problems. Mind you, in some of the studies you cited they compared women that had abortions to another population, but they often did not control for factors that would make the comparison appropriate. Comparing women that had abortions to women that gave birth makes no sense because if they only control for mental illness, it is ignoring all the other confounding factors: income, education, employment, victim of violence, etc. Unless they controlled for all these factors, making the comparison will not make anything clearer.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

And I'll demand that you prove that unicorns are not responsible for every opinion you make. An opinion is not a catchall for "I don't require a good reason for why I believe something," especially for quantifiable things. What I see more and more is people citing statistics using only correlations without the deeper analysis to demonstrate a given interpretation.

What has led to the increase in the suicide rate? This question is unanswered, but it is pretty clear that there is more than one contributing factor. Some will cite economic factors, which definitely plays a part, but does not explain the entire trend. Others will cite the relative flatness in funding to mental health, and yet others will cite higher divorce rate and adults remaining single into middle age. The reasons cited above are not just pulled out of thin air. Depression, anxiety, sense of hopelessness, these are risk factors for suicide. In many studies on suicide they don't just look at correlations, they explore those risk factors, usually comparing populations. For instance, unemployed individuals show significantly higher proportions of the risk factors for suicide compared to employed individuals (this is seen across multiple studies and countries). I think there is little doubt that economics is playing a role. However, I would go further to look at whether wage stagnation or people getting jobs that pay less plays a role in these numbers; the current president and the previous president love to cite unemployment numbers, but we all know that's not the only measure of economic health. Guns play a role in this because they are often the weapon of choice for suicides. Nonetheless, the decrease in use of guns and an increase in methods like suffocation probably means the trend in death bears more exploration.

However, one thing we know is that having an abortion is not a contributing factor to mental health problems. Of the studies done that can answer that research question, having an abortion is likely not the cause of depression among women that have them. Domestic violence and violence against women, on the other hand, appear to play a significant role, hence the call for more women's health clinics to have resources to address these problems. Mind you, in some of the studies you cited they compared women that had abortions to another population, but they often did not control for factors that would make the comparison appropriate. Comparing women that had abortions to women that gave birth makes no sense because if they only control for mental illness, it is ignoring all the other confounding factors: income, education, employment, victim of violence, etc. Unless they controlled for all these factors, making the comparison will not make anything clearer.

I specifically posted studies that absolutely linked abortion to mental health factors. Try again.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

When I express a belief in public, I try to make it a point to ensure that those beliefs are not pulled directly out of my rear end. Not that that applies to you, personally, but this is just a general thing - I don't want to be wrong about stuff. Why is this somehow a bizarre idea to you? Yes, I don't want to make a fool of myself by saying something patently false and having people say, "Uh, excuse me, but you're totally wrong". If I haven't done the research myself, I try to not weigh in.

No one has been able to prove me wrong. I've seen a lot of "it's clearly not related" without any proof. I've seen a lot of articles that talk about why people commit suicide. But I've seen nothing that says it doesn't contribute.

If I see a guy acting crazy in the street, I can certainly opine that he's on drugs. Am I gonna go up and ask him if he's on drugs? Probably not. Just like I can't actually go ask these dead people why they killed themselves.

 

[SummerMadness]

I specifically posted studies that absolutely linked abortion to mental health factors. Try again.

I do not think you understood what I wrote.

No one has been able to prove me wrong. I've seen a lot of "it's clearly not related" without any proof.

Ahem.

A clear trend emerges from this systematic review: the highest quality studies had findings that were mostly neutral, suggesting few, if any, differences between women who had abortions and their respective comparison groups in terms of mental health sequelae. Conversely, studies with the most flawed methodology found negative mental health sequelae of abortion.

I think it's clear you didn't read what I wrote.

You've also returned to the argument that you never supported. You don't have to "interview the dead" to understand why someone committed suicide.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I do not think you understood what I wrote.

Can you clarify this for me then?

However, one thing we know is that having an abortion is not a contributing factor to mental health problems​

Those were your words.

 

[JustOneWay]

Can you clarify this for me then?

However, one thing we know is that having an abortion is not a contributing factor to mental health problems​

Those were your words.

Who are we to know if people who have abortions already have mental health problems?

Then there is stuff like this:

Still True: Abortion Does Not Increase Women’s Risk of Mental Health Problems
https://www.guttmacher.org/about/gp...t-increase-womens-risk-mental-health-problems

 

[SummerMadness]

Can you clarify this for me then?

However, one thing we know is that having an abortion is not a contributing factor to mental health problems​

Those were your words.

You posted studies showing women that have abortions have more mental health issues, but you have not demonstrated a link between the procedure itself and the mental health outcome. If women that have abortions come from a population that is more likely to have depression, abortion is not the factor causing mental health problems. The studies you cite compare women to women that have children, that's a poor study design to understand if the women having abortions are depressed because of abortion.

Plus, I already posted the study that shows there is no link based on analyses of several studies on abortion and mental health. None of the study designs could perfectly answer the question, but the ones that could best answer the question, show that there was no negative outcome. Meanwhile, poorly designed studies did find a negative impact.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Who are we to know if people who have abortions already have mental health problems?

I posted a link that actually has statistics that shows women who have abortions are far more likely to have mental issues than women who give birth. If you're going to now pull the "how do we know they didn't have mental illness issues before" you need to take that up with the people who did the study.

Are you guys so desperate to stick your head in the sand about abortion that you'll practically make up stuff like "there's no connection between abortion and mental health issues"?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

You posted studies showing women that have abortions have more mental health issues, but you have not demonstrated a link between the procedure itself and the mental health outcome. If women that have abortions come from a population that is more likely to have depression, abortion is not the factor causing mental health problems. The studies you cite compare women to women that have children, that's a poor study design to understand if the women having abortions are depressed because of abortion.

You're kidding, right?

 

[SummerMadness]

You're kidding, right?

Why would I be kidding?

Do you think a correlation is all you need to argue an idea? There is more to statistics than pointing out a correlation.

 

[JustOneWay]

I posted a link that actually has statistics that shows women who have abortions are far more likely to have mental issues than women who give birth. If you're going to now pull the "how do we know they didn't have mental illness issues before" you need to take that up with the people who did the study.

Are you guys so desperate to stick your head in the sand about abortion that you'll practically make up stuff like "there's no connection between abortion and mental health issues"?

Why make it personal and say stuff like that? I am not sticking my head in the sand, or desperate.... and I posted a link in the post of mine you quoted.

Here it is again.

Still True: Abortion Does Not Increase Women’s Risk of Mental Health Problems
https://www.guttmacher.org/about/gp...t-increase-womens-risk-mental-health-problems

 

[SummerMadness]

I posted a link that actually has statistics that shows women who have abortions are far more likely to have mental issues than women who give birth. If you're going to now pull the "how do we know they didn't have mental illness issues before" you need to take that up with the people who did the study.

Are you guys so desperate to stick your head in the sand about abortion that you'll practically make up stuff like "there's no connection between abortion and mental health issues"?

Are the populations comparable? Did they control for income, education, domestic violence victimization rates, marital status, criminal background, etc.? Women that have abortions have higher rates of being victims of domestic violence; if they only controlled for prior mental illness and compared this population to women that give birth, the populations are not the same. If you find that abortion population has higher rates of mental health problems, how do you know it's not due to domestic violence, education level, employment, etc. if you did not control for these factors?

You can't tell someone to take it up with the people that did the study, as you never presented the interpretation of these studies, you simply cited an op-ed that listed correlations, how many of them even say abortion causes mental health problems?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Why make it personal and say stuff like that? I am not sticking my head in the sand, or desperate.... and I posted a link in the post of mine you quoted.

Here it is again.

Still True: Abortion Does Not Increase Women’s Risk of Mental Health Problems
https://www.guttmacher.org/about/gp...t-increase-womens-risk-mental-health-problems

I'm a bit astounded at the bias that Guttmacher presents here, but not totally surprised given who authored it. And no, I'm not going to cite why I feel that way.

I guess women who get abortions are all just peachy keen fine. What was I ever thinking.

Really, who cares that people are offing themselves anyway. We have a population control problem, so they're doing us all a favor. Right? *eyeroll*

You guys can come up with ways on how to fix it on your own, because clearly you have all the answers and you know everything.

 

[SummerMadness]

I'm a bit astounded at the bias that Guttmacher presents here, but not totally surprised given who authored it. And no, I'm not going to cite why I feel that way.

I guess women who get abortions are all just peachy keen fine. What was I ever thinking.

Really, who cares that people are offing themselves anyway. We have a population control problem, so they're doing us all a favor. Right? *eyeroll*

You guys can come up with ways on how to fix it on your own, because clearly you have all the answers and you know everything.

Where is the bias in the studies?

How would you design a study to determine if women that have abortions commit suicide because they had abortions? This is stats 101, so it's not a complicated question or designed to make you look stupid. I'll point out there are confounding variables, so how do you address them? Mind you, if the confound remains, you can't reliably make a claim about abortions and suicide. Observing higher rates of suicide among women that have abortions does not mean they committed suicide due to abortions.

 

[Cearbhall]

I guess women who get abortions are all just peachy keen fine. What was I ever thinking.

The research shows that most of them are fine and don't regret their decision, and why would they? They chose it, after all. It makes a lot of sense to me that the things which were out of their control, such as the unwanted pregnancy or financial problems, would be the source of mental stress. Therefore “rates of mental health problems for women with an unwanted pregnancy were the same whether they had an abortion or gave birth.”

The narrative that most women don't know what's good for them is long past its due date.

 

[rambot]

.