U.S. military destroys soldier's Bibles

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I'm sure that Obama's administration is going to go over everything that preceeded it, with a fine tooth comb. Which could be a good thing. Would certainly look like a good thing at this juncture. (But, IMO, it's too early to call. I thought Nixon's administration was "just what this country needed" too...in the beginning. )

Seems to me, these problems of which you refer to, would be indicitive of less God in the military, than too much.

 

[christianmomof3]

I don't think the US Military should be handing out Bibles to the people in other countries while they are there as the US Military. If those particular people want to go back to that country when their term of duty is over on their own time and money and preach the gospel and pass out Bibles, that is fine. But when they are there as the US Military, they do not have any "free time" to do as they please. They are representing the USA full time and they are supposed to do what they have been sent there to do and that does not include handing out Bibles. I think that goes over the line.

 

[ACougar]

Aren't we still missionaries in a way though? Have we not decided that free people are not a threat but that oppressed people will always be a threat to global stability?


What does Liberty mean to us and don't we want to bring Liberty to Afghanistan? Liberty means people are free to speak their mind, believe as their conscious dictates, participate in their government. Isn't that the core belief were selling at the business end of a rifle?


If were not preaching Liberty... then why in the heck are we still there? If we are preaching Liberty... then banning soldiers from simply handing our bibles is inappropriate.

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

I don't think the US Military should be handing out Bibles to the people in other countries while they are there as the US Military. If those particular people want to go back to that country when their term of duty is over on their own time and money and preach the gospel and pass out Bibles, that is fine. But when they are there as the US Military, they do not have any "free time" to do as they please. They are representing the USA full time and they are supposed to do what they have been sent there to do and that does not include handing out Bibles. I think that goes over the line.

Handing out Bibles is over the line IYO?

For Christians, it's our commission.

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Aren't we still missionaries in a way though? Not missionaries of a religion but of a different way of living...


What does Liberty mean to us and don't we want to bring Liberty to Afghanistan? Liberty means people are free to speak their mind, believe as their conscious dictates, participate in their government. Isn't that the core belief were selling at the business end of a rifle?


If were not preaching Liberty... then why in the heck are we still there?

Now, that's an excellent point.

Good post ACougar.

 

[ACougar]

Now, that's an excellent point.

Good post ACougar.

Thanks.

If we want Afganies to be free and prosper... we need them to reject Taliban style thinking and accept the notion that people have a God given right to be free.

 

[christianmomof3]

Handing out Bibles is over the line IYO?

For Christians, it's our commission.

The US Military was not sent to Afghanistan as a Christian group or to represent Christ or the church. They were sent to represent the USA. And, the USA is not all Christian. I think it is fine for members of the US military to share bibles with other members of the US military if they chose to. Sharing Bibles with the Afghanistans though is not something that the US sent them to do and it apparantly is not what the US govt. wishes for them to do. If they go on their own or as part of a missionary group, that is another thing and they are free to do as they chose. But as representatives of the US military, they are not free to do as they chose and they should follow the rules of the military.

As Christians, we should follow the rules of the jobs that we are working whether it be as a teacher or as a grocery store clerk or as a member of the US military. If a teacher were to preach he gospel to her public school students and pass out Bibles to them, would that be appropriate?
If a grocery store clerk were to preach the gospel to people who shop there and pass out Bibles to them, would that be appropriate?

I do not think either case would be appropriate and those people could be fired from their jobs for doing that.
I did shop at a grocery store for a while where there was a wonderful older gentleman who bagged the groceries. Every time I saw him, he would greet me happily and he always said something about enjoying the Lord. It was the same line every time, but he was genuinely enjoying Christ and I enjoyed his enjoyment of Christ. I don't know if anyone who shopped there was ever offended by him, but I always enjoyed seeing him because his enjoyment of the Lord was so wonderful!

I think that if a member of the military is living Christ and expressing Christ in his or her daily living, that is wonderful! But, if the military tells them not to give out Bibles and they do it anyway, then I think that is wrong.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Handing out Bibles is over the line IYO?

For Christians, it's our commission.

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15

Exactly, love the Verse!

I don't condone breaking the law. But whose law do you follow? Gods or the governments?

Does God put restrictions on us who we are to Lead to Jesus Christ?

Maybe just maybe these men/women felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do what they did. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, should they have ignored the Holy Spirit?

 

[SiderealExalt]

Exactly, love the Verse!

I don't condone breaking the law. But whose law do you follow? Gods or the governments?

Does God put restrictions on us who we are to Lead to Jesus Christ?

Maybe just maybe these men/women felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do what they did. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, should they have ignored the Holy Spirit?

And then military officials stepped in and responsibly stopped it. Like they should do more. If someone people want crusaders they should make a time machine.

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

And then military officials stepped in and responsibly stopped it. Like they should do more. If someone people want crusaders they should make a time machine.

Thank you for giving us an atheist's perspective. And as an atheist, it's understandable that you wouldn't support a christian issue. I don't agree with your stance, of course, being a Christian. ... But, for a discussion to be fair and equitable, all sides should be represented.

May God bless you, and have a wonderful Mother's day!

 

[gnomon]

Exactly, love the Verse!

I don't condone breaking the law. But whose law do you follow? Gods or the governments?

Does God put restrictions on us who we are to Lead to Jesus Christ?

Maybe just maybe these men/women felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do what they did. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, should they have ignored the Holy Spirit?

Just great. Trained military personnel with guns deciding to follow God over their established mission of protecting the people.

I seem to recall that apparently there was a group of people moved by a holy spirit while they planned slamming planes into buildings on our soil.

Also, those people who took a gun down to the abortion clinic because they followed the Holy Spirit.....you see where this is going.

Anyone can justify any action by claiming to follow a higher calling and if the examples above seem extreme denying that they have equal claim to following a higher calling as opposed to a peaceful missionary basically brings up the no true Scotsman argument.

It should be quite clear that no matter the reasoning of U.S. soldiers to think that they could be doing good by violating rules established for a very good reason especially in a country which was abandoned by the nation of those same soldiers is not only a rule violation but the epitome of poor reason.

To be frank, if a Christian feels that there is a compulsion to go out into the world and spread the gospel and hand out Bibles.......they don't need a gun or be employed by an army.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Just great. Trained military personnel with guns deciding to follow God over their established mission of protecting the people.

I seem to recall that apparently there was a group of people moved by a holy spirit while they planned slamming planes into buildings on our soil.

Also, those people who took a gun down to the abortion clinic because they followed the Holy Spirit.....you see where this is going.

Anyone can justify any action by claiming to follow a higher calling and if the examples above seem extreme denying that they have equal claim to following a higher calling as opposed to a peaceful missionary basically brings up the no true Scotsman argument.

It should be quite clear that no matter the reasoning of U.S. soldiers to think that they could be doing good by violating rules established for a very good reason especially in a country which was abandoned by the nation of those same soldiers is not only a rule violation but the epitome of poor reason.

To be frank, if a Christian feels that there is a compulsion to go out into the world and spread the gospel and hand out Bibles.......they don't need a gun or be employed by an army.

I don't believe our men were teaching violence, do you?

No your right, it's better to allow these men to believe what "their" God tells them. Now is it they get 72 virgins by killing themselves or does the amount virgins depend on how many deaths they take on their suicide missions?

We again will refer back to the verse Wisdom Seeker provided for us:

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15

God Bless

 

[Gishin]

So were the soldiers holding the locals there at gun point and making them read the Bible?


Hmmmm most likely not.

God Bless ALL of our Military Men and Women

Even us thoroughly ungodly types?

 

[gnomon]

I don't believe our men were teaching violence, do you?

No your right, it's better to allow these men to believe what "their" God tells them. Now is it they get 72 virgins by killing themselves or does the amount virgins depend on how many deaths they take on their suicide missions?

We again will refer back to the verse Wisdom Seeker provided for us:

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15

God Bless

The Afghan people were conducting suicide missions? That's new.

We didn't seem to have a problem providing these people believing in their God with military armament during the '80's. Supplied by Christian believers, no less.

Do you actually believe that all Muslims believe that they will get virgins in heaven? Do I now have permission to believe that you take every word of the Bible literally?

If you do not take the Bible literally then why should you expect that all Muslims take the Koran or the hadith's literally? That the remark about virgins applies to all Muslims, not martyrs, and that among semitic and many other cultures purity was an important concept. Actually, most U.S. Christians today speak highly of it though seldom practice it.

Now, who said anything about the soldiers teaching violence. It sure was not me.

edit: Or should a more experienced user of this forum just tell me I'm wasting my time with this because blase raking a non-Christian religion across the coals is just fine.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

The Afghan people were conducting suicide missions? That's new.

Do you actually believe that all Muslims believe that they will get virgins in heaven? Do I now have permission to believe that you take every word of the Bible literally?

If you do not take the Bible literally then why should you expect that all Muslims take the Koran or the hadith's literally? That the remark about virgins applies to all Muslims, not martyrs, and that among semitic and many other cultures purity was an important concept. Actually, most U.S. Christians today speak highly of it though seldom practice it.

Palestinian video: 'Martyrs' get paradise with maidens - Israel News, Ynetnews

I believe this came from their news! I don't know about you, but that martyrs prayers sure does sound like to me they believe they take it literally, but that's just my opinion.

Now, who said anything about the soldiers teaching violence. It sure was not me.

Just great. Trained military personnel with guns deciding to follow God over their established mission of protecting the people.

I seem to recall that apparently there was a group of people moved by a holy spirit while they planned slamming planes into buildings on our soil.

Also, those people who took a gun down to the abortion clinic because they followed the Holy Spirit.....you see where this is going.

References like that in the bold? I was just stating I don't believe our men are over there teaching violence (i.e. Holy Spirit telling them to teach them to fly into building.) Or maybe I just didn't see where you were going with it.

 

[gnomon]

I believe this came from their news! I don't know about you, but that martyrs prayers sure does sound like to me they believe they take it literally, but that's just my opinion.

I'm sure there are many that do. Just like there are Christians who literally believe that the Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israelites as described in a testament given by the angel Moroni. Though I doubt that you believe that or that most Christians believe that. I wouldn't suggest that they do believe that.

Generalizing the people of Afghanistan with violent groups or fundamentalist believers that comprise a minority of the members of the dominant religion in that nation is not necessary. Nor does it justify the actions of the U.S. soldiers discussed in this thread.

Also, just as many parts of the Old Testament which are incredibly bloody, violent and most modern Christians avoid are steeped in a culture not our own and cannot be dismissed by taking them literally or not understanding why that verse exists.

References like that in the bold? I was just stating I don't believe our men are over there teaching violence (i.e. Holy Spirit telling them to teach them to fly into building.) Or maybe I just didn't see where you were going with it.

The reference refers to 9/11 and the fact that the terrorists who carried out that action held firm religious convictions and acted on them. The reference is made to the notion that as long as someone is acting upon their religious conviction it makes it the right thing to do.

The same with the reference of abortion clinics and a gun. If someone thinks the Holy Spirit moves them to take a violent action then maybe the answer to:

Maybe just maybe these men/women felt lead by the Holy Spirit to do what they did. If they were being lead by the Holy Spirit, should they have ignored the Holy Spirit?

would be yes.

I do not believe the soldiers in question are teaching violence. To me that is not the issue.

Contrary to my statements in this thread I consider myself fairly tolerant of religion and the right of people to practice religion. However, I fail to see any rationale to support the actions of these soldiers actions in proselytizing to people who are not part of the Taliban, are not part of any terrorist organization and probably hold a wary view of our nation considering our recent history in foreign policy including that directly related to our history with Afghanistan over the last three decades.

 

[SiderealExalt]

It is not the job the military to be modern day Crusaders, wearing the red cross on psuedo shields bringing "true religion" to the heathens. If you want a group of people to be. Go buy an island, bibles and some handguns and I'm sure things will work out. I mean..what could go wrong?

 

[ACougar]

Maybe Crusaders who teach that all men are equall, that all men are endowed by thier creator with certain unalienable rights... is what we need. It may be more expensive and take longer than simply killing one set of bad guys while leaving another set of bad guys in charge, however perhaps we should consider fixing the problem instead of simply applying another band-aid.

It is not the job the military to be modern day Crusaders, wearing the red cross on psuedo shields bringing "true religion" to the heathens. If you want a group of people to be. Go buy an island, bibles and some handguns and I'm sure things will work out. I mean..what could go wrong?

 

[Nathan45]

Maybe Crusaders who teach that all men are equall, that all men are endowed by thier creator with certain unalienable rights... is what we need. It may be more expensive and take longer than simply killing one set of bad guys while leaving another set of bad guys in charge, however perhaps we should consider fixing the problem instead of simply applying another band-aid.

let's not. would the world really be better off if everyone lived like Americans?

 

[SiderealExalt]

Maybe Crusaders who teach that all men are equall, that all men are endowed by thier creator with certain unalienable rights... is what we need. It may be more expensive and take longer than simply killing one set of bad guys while leaving another set of bad guys in charge, however perhaps we should consider fixing the problem instead of simply applying another band-aid.

A nice idea. But even well meaning democratic idealism can( and has) faltered in the face of ugly realities. I really wouldn't expect that much altruism out of a theocratic Christian army. Past or present.