U.S. Lutherans condemn Israeli barrier.

[MiccyNarc]

What a lot of slanted "statistics". They don't even mention the billions of dollars the US government has poured into the Palestinian cause. There's no mention of the fact that when Palestinians are murdered by their own or by neighboring Arab nations, the Palestinians chalk it up to Israel. The biggest massacre of Palestinians was carried out by Lebanese.

Should I send you the video of Israeli police shooting a 10 year old girl? Or the Israeli troops gunning down a palestinian father and son?
Or the babies mutilated by Israeli missile strikes? Or the reports of Israeli border pratrols humiliating Palestinian boys?

You're kidding right? This is SO slanted...

Elaborate please.

 

[Harpuia]

Besides...

They're not doing anything these guys are...

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/609194.html

 

[MiccyNarc]

Googlefight knows all!

 

[Harpuia]

Googlefight knows all!

I'm surprised the margin is so thin, what with most of the countries vehemently opposing Israel and all...

 

[MaryS]

Should I send you the video of Israeli police shooting a 10 year old girl? Or the Israeli troops gunning down a palestinian father and son?
Or the babies mutilated by Israeli missile strikes? Or the reports of Israeli border pratrols humiliating Palestinian boys?

I see enough shootings of innocent people by police in Los Angeles.

LA36 channel did air one film that without a doubt proved that a Palestinian had shot a young Palestinian to detonate his bomb vest, while a nice Jewish man was trying to remove the bomb vest from the young man.
I rarely watch LA36, but I did also see Michael Moore on that channel, making his usual statements about the war.

The various pro-Israel groups that support Senators Boxer and Feinstein here in California also have some scathing videos that reveal the deceptive actions of Palestinians. I haven't seen them, but I have a staunch democrat neighbor that went to see the private viewing. He saw films of Palestinians stealing uniforms from Israelis, which they later used to commit filmed acts of violence against their own while blaming the same Israeli police or military they stole the uniforms from. They also caught them using some of the children that they had strapped bomb vests to kill Israelis and later claim the destroyed body of the innocent child was somehow Israel's fault.

I guess both sides have some damaging information on the other, but I really don't want to see any disgusting films from either side. I see enough disgusting things on the news.

 

[Harpuia]

Israel isn't perfect, we never said that. However, you make it seem like the entire world should side with Palestine because of Israel's actions, despite Palestine doing things equally as bad on their side by a few strays. That may work for 95% of the known countries, but not in the US or UK.

 

[MiccyNarc]

The various pro-Israel groups that support Senators Boxer and Feinstein here in California also have some scathing videos that reveal the deceptive actions of Palestinians. I haven't seen them, but I have a staunch democrat neighbor that went to see the private viewing. He saw films of Palestinians stealing uniforms from Israelis, which they later used to commit filmed acts of violence against their own while blaming the same Israeli police or military they stole the uniforms from. They also caught them using some of the children that they had strapped bomb vests to kill Israelis and later claim the destroyed body of the innocent child was somehow Israel's fault.

I don't believe the Palestinians are angels, I've never said that. But we should support both nations equally, aka not at all. We don't owe them anything, we should pull out all support, it's a waste of our money. Israel can support itself.
Don't side with either. Let them be.

 

[armyman_83]

Should I send you the video of Israeli police shooting a 10 year old girl? Or the Israeli troops gunning down a palestinian father and son?
Or the babies mutilated by Israeli missile strikes? Or the reports of Israeli border pratrols humiliating Palestinian boys?

Maybe you should read all these names before you hurl talks of Jews killing anyone.

Tell these folks that the Arabs just want land and they are working peacefully for it. Note: These deaths were after the Oslo Peace Accords

Feb 11, 2002 - Capt. Shahar Shmul (24) of Jerusalem, was shot once in the chest by an Arab Jew-murdering sniper outside Bethlehem’s Church of the Nativity. Captain Shmul was in the midst of overseeing the controlled explosion of a suspected terrorist vehicle, making sure that the flames did not damage nearby Arab homes, when he was hit. Talk about misguided mercy and concern about one's enemies! Talk about a waste of Jewish life!

Feb 15, 2002 - Cpl. Noam Bahagon (20) of Elkana, Sgt. Tal Alexei Belitzky (21) and St.-Sgt. Doron Cohen (21) of Rishon Lezion and Sgt. Itay Mizrahi (20) of Be'er Sheva were killed when their Patton M-60 tank drove over an explosive device weighing 100 kgs while on patrol in the Gaza Strip. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 23, 2003 - Sgt. Doron Lev (19) of Holon was shot in the back from 100 yards and killed when a Arab-Palestinian sniper murderer opened fire at an army position in the southern Gaza Strip. The PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) claimed responsibility for the attack.

March 5, 2003 - Maryam Attar (27), Smadar Firstater (17), Mordechai (Motti) Hershko (41), Tom Hershko (15), Meital Katav (20), Elizabeta (Liz) Katzman (16), Tal Kerman (17), St.-Sgt. Eliyahu Laham (22), Abigail Leitel (14), Yuval Mendelevitch (13), Mark Takash (54) and Assaf Tzur (Zolinger) (17) all Haifa, Kamar Abu Hamed (12) of Daliat al-Carmel, Daniel Haroush (16) of Safed and St.-Sgt. Be'eri Oved (21) of Rosh Pina were killed in a suicide bombing of an Egged bus in the Carmel section of Haifa. The blast turned the bus into a charred wreck and scattered bodies along the road. The Arab "Palestinian" homicide/suicide bomber, who had boarded the bus, had the bomb strapped to his body, laden with metal shrapnel in order to maximize the number of injuries. A total of 15 people were killed and 55 injured. Anatoly Biryakov (20) of Haifa died of injuries on March 8. Moran Shushan, 20, of Haifa died of injuries on March 11.

Mar 7, 2003 - Rabbi Eli (Elnatan) Horowitz (52) and his wife Dina Horowitz (50) were murdered by Arab terrorists dressed as religious Jews who infiltrated Kiryat Arba, adjacent to Hebron.
Y
Mar 10, 2003 - St.-Sgt. Tomer Ron (20) of Moshav Moledet, was killed in an ambush by two terrorists from the cover of an Arab apartment building in Hebron. Four other soldiers were wounded in the attack.
Y
Mar 12, 2002 - St.-Sgt. Assaf Moshe Fuchs (21) of Kibbutz Gvat was killed in an exchange of fire with wanted terrorists from the Islamic Jihad in the West Bankvillage of Saida.
Y
Mar 18, 2003 - Sgt.-Maj. Ami Cohen (27) of Netanya was killed and another soldier wounded south of Bethlehem when Arab-Palestinians terrorists opened fire during a search for wanted terrorists.
Y
Mar 19, 2003 - Zion Boshirian (51) of Mevo Dotan was shot and killed while driving in his car between Mevo Dotan and Shaked in northern Samaria.

Apr 10, 2003 - St.-Sgt. Yigal Lifshitz (20) of Rishon Lezion and St.-Sgt. Ofer Sharabi (21) of Givat Shmuel were killed when Palestinian terrorists opened fire before dawn on their base near Bekaot in the northern Jordan Valley.
Y
Apr 10, 2003 - St.-Sgt. Ofer Sharabi (21) of Givat Shmuel

Apr 15, 2003 - Lt. Daniel Mandel (24) of Alon Shvut was killed in an exchange of gunfire during a search for wanted terrorists in Nablus.

Apr 15, 2003 - Zachar Hanukayev (39) of Sderot was killed when a Palestinian terrorist opened fire at the Karni industrial zone crossing in the Gaza Strip.

Apr 20, 2003 - IDF photographer Sgt. Lior Ziv(19) of Holon, was killed and three other soldiers were wounded during an operation to destroy a Hamas smuggling tunnel in Rafah, in the Gaza Strip.

Y
Apr 24, 2003 - Alexander Kostyuk, a 23-year-old security guard from Bat Yam, was killed in an Arab-"Palestinian" suicide/homicide bombing outside the train station in Kfar Sava. Thirteen others were wounded.


Apr 30, 2003 - Ran Baron (24) and Dominique Caroline Hess (29) of Tel Aviv and Yanai Weiss (46) of Holon was one of three persons murdered by a suicide bomber who detonated himself at the entrance of Mike's Place, a pub on the Tel Aviv seafront promenade.

Y
May 5, 2003 - Gideon Lichterman (27) of Ahiya, was killed and two others, his six-year-old daughter Moriah and a reserve soldier, were seriously wounded when terrorists fired shots at their vehicle near Shvut Rachel, in Samaria.

YY
May 17, 2003 - Gadi Levy (30) and his wife Dina (37) of Kiryat Arba were killed by a suicide bomber in Hebron.


May 18, 2003 - Olga Brenner (52), Yitzhak Moyal (64), Marina Tsahivershvili (44), Shimon Ustinsky (68), Roni Yisraeli (34), Nelly Perov (55) all of Jerusalem, Avi Zerihan (36) of Beit Shean, Ghalab Tawil (42) of Shuafat and Kiril Shramko (22) of Afula were murdered and 20 wounded in a suicide bombing on Egged bus in Jerusalem. The Arab terrorist bomber, disguised as a religious Jew, boarded the bus and detonated the bomb shortly afterwards.


May 19, 2003 - Kiril Shramko (22) of Afula and Avi Zerihan (36) of Beit Shean were killed when an Arab suicide-homicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance to the Amakim Mall in Afula. The Islamic Jihad and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades both claimed responsibility for the attack. ALso killed was an Israeli Arab.


June 8, 2003 - Sgt. Maj. (Res.) Chen Engel (32) of Ramat Gan, Sgt. Maj. (Res.) Assaf Abergil (23) and Sgt. Maj. (Res.) Udi Ayelet (38) of Eilat and Sgt. Maj. Boaz Emete (24) of Beit She'an were killed when Palestinian terrorists opened fire on an IDF outpost near the Erez checkpoint and industrial zone in the Gaza Strip. Three Arab terrorists wearing IDF uniforms passed through the checkpoint for "Palestinian" laborers on their way to work in the Erez industrial zone. At the entrance to the outpost, they opened fire with Kalashnikovs and threw grenades.


June 11, 2003 - Alan Beer (47), Eugenia Berman (50), Yaffa Mualem (65), Anna Orgal (55), Bianca Rivkah Shahrur (62), Malka Renee Sultan (67), Bertine Tita (75), Miriam Levy (74), Elsa Cohen (70) Zvi Cohen (39), Alexander Kazaris (77), all from Jerusalem, Zippora Pesahovitch (54) of Zur Hadassah, Roi Eliraz (22) of Mevaseret Zion, Yaniv Obayed (22) of Herzliya, Bat-El Ohana (21) of Kiryat Ata and Sgt. Tamar Ben-Eliahu (20) of Moshav Paran were murdered when an Arab dressed as an ultra-Orthodox Jew, boarded a Jerusalem bus and detonated his bomb, killing 16 of its passengers. Over 100 people were wounded. Hamas proudly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Y
June 12, 2003 - Avner Maimon (51) of Netanya, was shot and killed by Arab terrorists while visiting the northern Samarian town of Yabed to buy charcoal.

Y
June 13, 2003 - St.-Sgt. Mordechai (Mor) Sayada (22) of Tirat Carmel, a company medic in the Golani Brigade, was shot and killed by a Palestinian sniper while on a jeep patrol of Jenin

Y
June 17, 2003 - Noam Leibowitz (7) of Yemin Orde was killed and three members of her family wounded in a shooting attack near the Kibbutz Eyal junction on the Trans-Israel Highway.

Y
June 19, 2003 - Avner Mordechai (58) of Moshav Sde Trumot, was killed when a suicide bomber blew up in his grocery on Sde Trumot, south of Beit Shean.

Y
June 20, 2003 - Zvi Goldstein (47) of Eli, was killed when his car was fired upon in an ambush by Palestinian terrorists near Ofra, north of Ramallah.


June 26, 2003 - Amos (Amit) Mantin (31)of Hadera, was shot at point-blank range by a 15 year-old Arab "Palestinian."


June 27, 2003 - Sgt.Maj. Erez Ashkenazi (21) of Kibbutz Reshafim, an Israeli navy commando, was killed in an operation in Gaza to capture an Arab Hamas cell.


June 30, 2003 - Krastyu Radkov (46) a Jewish construction worker from Bulgaria, was killed in a shooting attack on the Yabed bypass road in northern Samaria, west of Jenin. The Al-Aqsa Brigade claimed responsibility.


July 7, 2003 - Mazal Afari (65) of Moshav Kfar Yavetz was killed in her home in an Arab terrorist suicide bombing. The brave Islamic Jihad Arab/Muslim terrorist thugs claimed responsibility for the attack upon this unarmed 65 year old grandmother!


I would have put the whole lis on, but it wouldn't let me.

 

[JPPT1974]

I don't believe the Palestinians are angels, I've never said that. But we should support both nations equally, aka not at all. We don't owe them anything, we should pull out all support, it's a waste of our money. Israel can support itself.
Don't side with either. Let them be.

We shouldn't owe them our support or even time or money. Isreal needs to learn how the keep the peace themselves. And not learn how to fight at all when they do.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Yes, armyman, everyone knows that the Palestinians killed Israelis. What I'm trying to do is provide some balance, and end the Israel-worshipping that likes to carry on in the US, especially among Christians.

 

[armyman_83]

"Those that bless you, I will bless, those that curse you I will curse...."

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee."

From the Word of the Living God.

 

[Harpuia]

Yes, armyman, everyone knows that the Palestinians killed Israelis. What I'm trying to do is provide some balance, and end the Israel-worshipping that likes to carry on in the US, especially among Christians.

Funny. I see much positive stuff about Palestinians and nothing but negative about Israelis coming from your side.

I already said Israel isn't perfect. But every attack they've done save three have been defensive and retaliatory. Three aggressive strikes against dozens of the Palestinians isn't exactly a fair balance.

 

[JPPT1974]

Yes, armyman, everyone knows that the Palestinians killed Israelis. What I'm trying to do is provide some balance, and end the Israel-worshipping that likes to carry on in the US, especially among Christians.

I know you mean well and are tying to provide some balance as well as end the Isreal-worshipping that carries on in the US. I know what you mean indeed!

 

[charityagape]

My neighbor built a fence in my backyard. I tried to tear it down, but he claims that the original owner promised it to him. My family has owned our property for many generations. The fence has been there for more than a year now, and I am afraid to tear it down because my neighbor is much bigger than me. Last week he began building a shed on the other side of the fence.

If you're an American, you should give your backyard back to the people who were here first. Heck, if you live in any country, what you have now was probably taken by force from someone.

 

[ScottishJohn]

"Those that bless you, I will bless, those that curse you I will curse...."

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee."

From the Word of the Living God.

So helping Israel (through funding her) to murder women and children in retaliation for terrorist attacks which kill Israeli women and children is blessing her? I find that argument a little skewed! You help people sin - how is that blessing them? There are going to be some pretty difficult questions to answer for people who follow this line of thinking come judgement day.

Neither side have clean hands in this conflict. In all of Christs ministry I cannot recall him ever saying anything about blessing Israel, yet I do remember him saying a great deal about peacemakers being blessed, turning the other cheek, loving neighbours, etc etc.

Nice to pick and choose which scripture to follow though...

 

[charityagape]

Neither side have clean hands in this conflict.

No nation in conflict has clean hands.

 

[ScottishJohn]

No nation in conflict has clean hands.

So why are so many on this thread pretending that Israel are some kind of group of injured saints?

 

[MalcolmX]

I wonder how many of the churches that are disconnecting from Israel are members of the aryan nations? Hate to even go to their site, but had to check their attitude on the war and Israel....sure enough, they're virulently opposed to the war and they even have a graphic with the "Uncle Sam Wants You", but it's indicating Uncle Sam wants white men to fight for Israel.
www.aryan-nations.org

David Duke, a well-known white supremacist, also has his anti-war/anti-Israel rants: http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=350

Come on, folks, tell the children the truth!
www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com Arab NAZI's, past and present

The serial killer likes Spaghetti-O's
The serial killer is evil.
Therefore, Spaghetti-O's are evil.

They have a name for this you know: Syllogism

 

[arnegrim]

The problem is... Palestine will not be happy with just Gaza...

It's exactly the kind of situation that the United Nations Development Program was set up to deal with, and the U.N. is spending millions of dollars there every year.

But FOX News has discovered that not all that cash is going to alleviate poverty. Instead, some of it is funding a Palestinian political campaign under the slogan, "Today Gaza, tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem."

On Tuesday, as Israeli security forces clashed with angry Jewish settlers protesting their eviction from the Gaza Strip, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia wore a T-shirt saying, "Today Gaza. Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165893,00.html

and the UN seems to be backing them...

 

[MiccyNarc]

Funny. I see much positive stuff about Palestinians and nothing but negative about Israelis coming from your side.

It's unnecessary due to the heaps of unnecessary praise you and others like you have laid on Israel already.

"Those that bless you, I will bless, those that curse you I will curse...."

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee."

From the Word of the Living God.

Doesn't that stink? Now matter how horrible they act, God will still bless them. Ah well, His ways are not our ways.