Two Witnesses

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Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
God's two witnesses (Christians and Jews) testified in sackcloth during the reign of the 7th head of the beast over Jerusalem (the Islamic conquerors) who trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years. (In Bible prophecy, one day is often one year). It seldom rained in the Holy Land during the 1260 years (as prophesied).
 
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StephanieSomer

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Shocker said:
I submit that the two witnesses are the Jews and Gentiles empowered by the spirit of Elijah, the same spirit given to John the Baptist.

Interesting. However, the rest of Rev 11 seems pretty clear that the 2 witnesses are 2 specific people, albeit unidentified.

7. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
8. Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
9. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11. But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
12. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.




How do you explain this in light of your interpretation? If the 2 witnesses are groups of people, rather than 2 individuals, as you suggest, the concept of burying entire groups seems a bit unexpected. And just what "street" were they left lying in for 3 days? I'd assume Jerusalem from the reference to "where our Lord was crucified".

Also, the word 'prophet' to describe them seems to indicate more a personality than a group, at least to me. I am curious to see these ideas incorporated into your explanation.
 
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Shocker

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Interesting. However, the rest of Rev 11 seems pretty clear that the 2 witnesses are 2 specific people, albeit unidentified.

7. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
8. Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
9. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11. But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
12. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.




How do you explain this in light of your interpretation? If the 2 witnesses are groups of people, rather than 2 individuals, as you suggest, the concept of burying entire groups seems a bit unexpected. And just what "street" were they left lying in for 3 days? I'd assume Jerusalem from the reference to "where our Lord was crucified".

Also, the word 'prophet' to describe them seems to indicate more a personality than a group, at least to me. I am curious to see these ideas incorporated into your explanation.

God did say in the last days he would pour out his spirit, and the sons and daughters would prophesy..

Im completely open to the two witnesses being two people, I just don't come up with that when I follow the clues given in scripture.

Guess time will tell.. Personally tho, if two supernatural beings show up who literally shoot fire out of their mouth, then Im pretty sure every human in the world will know God is real.

I mean, how could anyone deny God if two supernatural dudes show up shooting fire out of there mouths..
 
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parousia70

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God did say in the last days he would pour out his spirit, and the sons and daughters would prophesy..


And the Apostle Peter Infallibly claimed that prophesy was fulfilled in his day, before his very eyes....

Acts 2:2-17

2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


Side note...why didn't the other witnesses of that event understand immediately that what they were seeing and hearing was the fulfillment of prophesy? Why did Peter have to proclaim it's fulfillment to them?
 
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Shocker

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And the Apostle Peter Infallibly claimed that prophesy was fulfilled in his day, before his very eyes....

Acts 2:2-17

2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


Side note...why didn't the other witnesses of that event understand immediately that what they were seeing and hearing was the fulfillment of prophesy? Why did Peter have to proclaim it's fulfillment to them?

What happened at Pentecost was not the fulfillment of the prophecy given, at Pentecost.


Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

Act 2:18 EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.

Act 2:19 'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.

Act 2:20 'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
Act 2:21 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'
 
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Shocker

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2 witnesses ?.... Enoch and Elijah they been up there a good while witnessing many things since taken up... They are perfect to send to Israel to witness for god

That's fine, and great and all, and it could be them I suppose..

But neither of them are representative of the two olive trees God uses as a reference to understand who these men are.
 
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dfw69

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That's fine, and great and all, and it could be them I suppose..

But neither of them are representative of the two olive trees God uses as a reference to understand who these men are.

What does 2 olive trees mean ? A tree can represent a man and the olive is a fruit or something useful to eat or make oil..to me they represent good, fruitful
 
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Shocker

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What does 2 olive trees mean ? A tree can represent a man and the olive is a fruit or something useful to eat or make oil..to me they represent good, fruitful

Read all of Rom 11.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Essentially, the two olive trees are Gentiles and Jews.

Olive tree- Jews
Wild olive tree-Gentiles

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
 
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dfw69

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Read all of Rom 11.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Essentially, the two olive trees are Gentiles and Jews.

Olive tree- Jews
Wild olive tree-Gentiles

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

True

Yet also ..mark 8:24 Says
And he looked up and said, "I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around."

Granted it does not say olive trees but a tree

I believe Enoch and Elijah can be referred to as an olive tree and candlestick and not just groups
 
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Shocker

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True

Yet also ..mark 8:24 Says
And he looked up and said, "I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around."

Granted it does not say olive trees but a tree

I believe Enoch and Elijah can be referred to as an olive tree and candlestick and not just groups

Enoch wasn't a Jew, which is the olive tree..

Mark 8:24 is describing what the blind man saw.

Mar 8:23 Taking the blind man by the hand, He brought him out of the village; and after spitting on his eyes and laying His hands on him, He asked him, "Do you see anything?"

Mar 8:24 And he looked up and said, "I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around."
 
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James-49

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Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

I still maintain Peter and Paul as the two witnesses.

Elijah has already come, but it was John the Baptist:
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

In the same way Peter and Paul are two persons, and also representations. It's the gospels as told by Peter and Paul et al that is repeated and retold as the witness to Christ.
 
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dfw69

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Enoch wasn't a Jew, which is the olive tree..

Mark 8:24 is describing what the blind man saw.

Mar 8:23 Taking the blind man by the hand, He brought him out of the village; and after spitting on his eyes and laying His hands on him, He asked him, "Do you see anything?"

Mar 8:24 And he looked up and said, "I see men, for I see them like trees, walking around."

What is a true Jew anyway what makes one grafted into an olive tree?

One being in covenant with god...Enoch and Elijah qualify :)
 
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