Turning around when deacon censes and walks along the outer edge of the sanctuary

[All4Christ]

My husband recently mentioned that we aren't supposed to turn away from the altar when the deacon walks around the sanctuary without the priest since we only turn away from the altar when the representative of Christ is behind us. He said that the bishop is definitely someone we should turn around for, and since the priest is the representative of the bishop and hence the representative of Christ, it is ok to turn around for him. All the others in our parish turn around for the deacon, priest and bishop - even if the deacon is by himself.

Which is the correct way to do this? Or is it another thing for pastoral discretion? Thankfully, as a member of the choir, I don't have this decision to make due to our location, but I am curious.

 

[gzt]

While that's a practice I'm familiar with, I'm pretty sure this is a fairly small "t" tradition.

 

[All4Christ]

While that's a practice I'm familiar with, I'm pretty sure this is a fairly small "t" tradition.

I figured (was hoping) it would be a small 't' tradition, but wasn't sure if there was a basis or tradition behind it. Most of the times, head small t traditions don't even enter my mind the majority of the time. Question is, which ones are valid and which ones actually have an important purpose that I may or may not realize.

The same thing happens with many traditions within the altar that I don't know about...or liturgical practices or traditions. It's at times confusing to hear about so many minute details that I haven't learned about in any of my catechism classes or in any discussions with my priest. Yet, there are some things that don't seem important to me that have important reasons behind them...which (because of my background) don't even register with me until someone says something.

For example, for the longest time, I didn't realize that litanies couldn't be added without approval of the bishop. I knew the liturgy couldn't change, but wouldn't have thought twice about someone adding an extra prayer into that section.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

My priest told me once it bugged him when people followed the deacon OR the priest, turning around. He said it bugged him because people turned their backs on the altar of Christ just to watch something that was going on. The deacon is censing the temple not the people, so you don't really have to watch.

 

[All4Christ]

My priest told me once it bugged him when people followed the deacon OR the priest, turning around. He said it bugged him because people turned their backs on the altar of Christ just to watch something that was going on. The deacon is censing the temple not the people, so you don't really have to watch.

So if someone decided not to turn around, most priests wouldn't consider it to be rude or wrong to not do?

 

[gzt]

My priest told me once it bugged him when people followed the deacon OR the priest, turning around. He said it bugged him because people turned their backs on the altar of Christ just to watch something that was going on. The deacon is censing the temple not the people, so you don't really have to watch.

Yes, not turning the back at all during the censing at all is what I'm more familiar with - though having a bishop present always mucks that up. So you look right, then do a 180 to look left, making sure not to turn the back to the altar.

 

[gzt]

A priest once got quite annoyed when I followed the directive not to kiss the priest's hand at the veneration of the cross if you've communed - so I just ignore that directive unless in a very uppity Russian church. As always, follow what your local priest says to do, or at least isn't annoyed excessively by (this is, by the way, not always what is done at your parish - sometimes local practice is annoying!).

 

[All4Christ]

A priest once got quite annoyed when I followed the directive not to kiss the priest's hand at the veneration of the cross if you've communed - so I just ignore that directive unless in a very uppity Russian church. As always, follow what your local priest says to do, or at least isn't annoyed excessively by (this is, by the way, not always what is done at your parish - sometimes local practice is annoying!).

I've learned that with one priest that visits on a fairly regular basis had different expectations with kissing his hand versus our priest...and the bishop has a different expectation than either of them...and another priest...well, point being it can be confusing!

 

[rusmeister]

We have a full priest or archpriest do it at all times. So everybody turns. I've never seen a "deacon only, nobody turning" situation. That would be weird for me.

 

[rusmeister]

A priest once got quite annoyed when I followed the directive not to kiss the priest's hand at the veneration of the cross if you've communed - so I just ignore that directive unless in a very uppity Russian church. As always, follow what your local priest says to do, or at least isn't annoyed excessively by (this is, by the way, not always what is done at your parish - sometimes local practice is annoying!).

When there are huge numbers (more than 200), my priest may specifically say to kiss only the cross; some people kiss his hand out of habit anyway, it's not treated as a big deal.

 

[Anhelyna]

Oh - that's a new one on me gzt

Our Eparch has asked me not to kiss his hand - so I only do it when greeting him when we haven't met for a while - but not after veneration of the Cross after Liturgy.

My priest and my Fr Confessor know that come what may I will kiss their hand after veneration of the Cross - actually I'm the only one in my Parish , I think, who does.

 

[gzt]

Again, that's only if you've communed. cf #12: » Church Rules for Confession and Holy Communion (EN)POMOG.org It's listed in the Jordanville book.

 

[All4Christ]

Again, that's only if you've communed. cf #12: » Church Rules for Confession and Holy Communion (EN)POMOG.org It's listed in the Jordanville book.

There are multiple guidelines in there that I haven't seen enforced! Especially the confession before every time we commune. I'll have to read that more thoroughly tonight.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I turn to the side to follow the censor, that way I can face the person censing without turning my back on the high place

 

[All4Christ]

I turn to the side to follow the censor, that way I can face the person censing without turning my back on the high place

That seems like a good way to do it. I might follow that pattern when I'm not in the choir.

 

[gzt]

No, don't scrutinize the list! Those are the specific disciplines of one place and one time, follow the rules given by your priest in your parish, which are usually passed down from the bishop of your diocese and done in consultation with your synod of bishops. This is a different synod of bishops and everything down the line.

But #6, 7, 10 are pretty universal; 8, 11, and 13 are very good, but everything else is to be done as you are directed.

 

[All4Christ]

No, don't scrutinize the list! Those are the specific disciplines of one place and one time, follow the rules given by your priest in your parish, which are usually passed down from the bishop of your diocese and done in consultation with your synod of bishops. This is a different synod of bishops and everything down the line. But #6, 7, 10 are pretty universal; 8, 11, and 13 are very good, but everything else is to be done as you are directed.

Sounds like a good plan. I'd still be interested in learning the practices of different synods, despite following the direction of my priest. That way I can be aware of different practices when I talk to someone else

We received specific directions regarding confession that are in contradiction to what is said in the list, so I definitely will follow what our priest told us in that situation.

 

[Wryetui]

We always turn around when the priest incenses the Church, but I don't know about a deacon, should we turn to him too?

 

[All4Christ]

We always turn around when the priest incenses the Church, but I don't know about a deacon, should we turn to him too?

Sounds like it isn't the same across all of Orthodoxy...technically though it sounds like the most appropriate way would be more turning partway to the side but not putting your back to the altar (see ArmyMatt's answer). But - like others said, this may vary across parishes.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hmmmmm.

I should ask Father. People turn to follow him when he censed the Narthex, or during the Great Entrance when he goes to the back with the Eucharist.

Is there anything about leaving the Church down the center aisle? I always feel awkward for some reason, and I picked up the custom of turning and crossing as I leave the Church, or for that matter when going down after receiving the Eucharist (not center aisle).