Discussion Truth is Truth

[Alithis]

Wow! Didn't know it! found it there in Deut. thanks!

This revelation has really just hit the spot for me. Having read Deuteronomy and Ephesians, this never stood out to me before. I have been pursuing wisdom for myself, for my husband, and for my children - just to live our lives pleasing in the sight of the Lord in obedience to His Word. And also on daily matters that fall under Romans 14 (the grey areas of life that aren't necessarily addressed in the Word - like "should I take this job or that job/this business deal or that business deal".

This discussion on wisdom is helping me.

in obedience to his word .. being that he IS his word ,,that is to say his word is the outer expression of him .
it always excites me that there is NOTHING in the new testament that is not either foretold or supported by the old testament . (which why rome and popes and child sprinkling are all unbiblical)
one time i was sitting wondering why the lord Jesus used grape juice in particular ..to represent his blood.. then i find a sentence in the old testament which uses the term "the blood of grapes " interesting huh lol .

 

[unfinishedclay]

Jesus declared in the upper room to His Disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth. [John 16:12-14]. This wide-angle view of Scripture which included its hidden meanings is discussed in Psalms 25:14

One of my favorite passages in the Bible is Psalm 25:14. It answers so many questions about hearing from the Lord and receiving revelation from Him.

 

[unfinishedclay]

in obedience to his word .. being that he IS his word ,,that is to say his word is the outer expression of him .
it always excites me that there is NOTHING in the new testament that is not either foretold or supported by the old testament . (which why rome and popes and child sprinkling are all unbiblical)
one time i was sitting wondering why the lord Jesus used grape juice in particular ..to represent his blood.. then i find a sentence in the old testament which uses the term "the blood of grapes " interesting huh lol .

Yes, it is. I agree Old and New Testaments align. I am able to understand the Old Testament well by relying on Jesus' teaching, which referred many times to Old Testament (and is supported by it, like you said). And the apostles' letters, which also teach Old Testament.

I can't remember the term "the blood of grapes" in Old Testament. Where is it?

 

[Alithis]

Yes, it is. I agree Old and New Testaments align. I am able to understand the Old Testament well by relying on Jesus' teaching, which referred many times to Old Testament (and is supported by it, like you said). And the apostles' letters, which also teach Old Testament.

I can't remember the term "the blood of grapes" in Old Testament. Where is it?

genesis 49:10-11

 

[Farine]

in obedience to his word .. being that he IS his word ,,that is to say his word is the outer expression of him .
it always excites me that there is NOTHING in the new testament that is not either foretold or supported by the old testament . (which why rome and popes and child sprinkling are all unbiblical)
one time i was sitting wondering why the lord Jesus used grape juice in particular ..to represent his blood.. then i find a sentence in the old testament which uses the term "the blood of grapes " interesting huh lol .

Ah, I just learned something! "the blood of grapes"...

Where I get really excited is when I understand how something in the Bible is to be used. Your responses about the preaching, baptizing and participating as God's Spirit heals energizes me to keep seeking and going higher in the Lord.

 

[Farine]

One of my favorite passages in the Bible is Psalm 25:14. It answers so many questions about hearing from the Lord and receiving revelation from Him.

I came to this Bible verse late in life. A preacher said 'If you seek after God earnestly, He will tell you His secrets.." And then gave that verse. I had never heard that and went to go read it. Wow.. still wow a couple of years later.

 

[Farine]

Peace..in the unstilled Storm.

Sometimes God stills the storm. Sometimes, God quiets the child.

The last few posts have been about wisdom. God demonstrates His wisdom in how He responds to our lives. I will admit as a watcher of my own affairs that His ways are mysterious. I can make out the wisdom of many of those choices -- while the permissive will (what God allowed, but not desired ) is stranger still. If the filter of my trust insisted that I understand these mysteries, I would not have peace.

Peace is not ... Numbness, having control, the absence of problems / conflict, the abundance of resources or gratified desires.

Peace is contentment in being ruled and guided by God. Peace is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Peace is having one's acceptance and needs to belong met by God.

If one, in an earthly context, disagrees with, not trusting the police and the government, it is very hard to be in public and conduct business. You can see how this context interferes with one's sense of security and well-being. In a similar way, if a person struggles to trust and rest in God's governing then peace is lacking.

There are a lot of verses for support of these statements. I wanted to put the thoughts out there first and then follow up with support from God's Word.

One of the great attractions to the weary world is supernatural peace. I know at least three people who became convinced of God's reality and care because of peace.

 

[Farine]

Bible verses about Peace.

Romans 8:5-8
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 15:12-13
And again, Isaiah says,

“The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; in him the Gentiles will hope.”

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:19-26
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[Farine]

Earthly Good compared to Heavenly Holiness

My neighbor is a good man. He with his wife raised a strong, respectful son who is studying for his masters. He is well liked and appreciated at the job he is soon to retire from. He does not believe in Jesus' finished work at the cross as the atonement for his sins. I know this because we have talked on many topics and my neighbor told me this.

Why say this after 288 posts? There has to be a reason for the disconnect. If God's Good News is THAT Good, why aren't more people taking advantage of peace like just described, or wisdom or partaking in the divine nature?

People have been deceived and entangled in sin. C. S. Lewis likened this kind of being fooled like making a math error in a schoolroom class. You don't knowingly take a wrong turn on a math test. You hand in your paper thinking in confidence that your logic is sound. One of the wrong turns that people take is that a good person by our standards is also holy.

Or consider this other variation of earthly goodness. If we decide from our own feelings and thoughts to do something 'good', but leave God no room to participate, God rejects it [the label 'good' for what we chose to do].

All of us have become like someone who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind, our sins sweep us away. [Isaiah 65:6]​

The person who came along side the person stuck (entangled) in this perception deception should be received with joy. BUT, no one wants bad news. The spiritual riches in Christ that Colossians 1:27 speaks of cannot be inherited by a whatever mindset. Mental knowing without the heart surrendering is a recipe for enduring regret.

Where is the resistance coming from? From the lower nature. Read your Bible and it says that this transformation is a type of death but then has a ressurection unto new life. If you renovate a house, the first step is demolition. Something old has to come out before something new can be built. If a person's identity is built around and firmly attached to this lower nature, no wonder God's message is poorly received!

People read this phrase with hardly a blink. Read this again and fully understand its import: You are a SPIRIT. You have a soul (thoughts, feelings, imagination, will and desires). You live in a body. If your soul (your lower nature) argues that it is the core identity, your spirit has a mutiny on its hands.

In closing this is the way Psalms 49:20 [Amplified] puts it.

A man [who is held] in honor, yet who lacks [spiritual] understanding and a teachable heart, is like the beasts that perish.

 

[Alithis]

That is a weighty post sister

 

[Farine]

That is a weighty post sister

Ah, that is the pressure on me. For after much revelation which is plainly said, now there are people who have the danger of knowing.

Luke 12:42-48 is not preached. Can you imagine enthusiasm for a text like this?

The Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise steward [of the estate], whom his master will put in charge over his household, to give his servants their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) is that servant whom his master finds so doing when he arrives. I assure you and most solemnly say to you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is taking his time in coming,’ and begins to beat the servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that servant who knew his master’s will, and yet did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will be beaten with many lashes [of the whip], but the one who did not know it and did things worthy of a beating, will receive only a few [lashes]. From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.​

Um, yeah. Jesus said that.

 

[Alithis]

Ah, that is the pressure on me. For after much revelation which is plainly said, now there are people who have the danger of knowing.

Luke 12:42-48 is not preached. Can you imagine enthusiasm for a text like this?

The Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise steward [of the estate], whom his master will put in charge over his household, to give his servants their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) is that servant whom his master finds so doing when he arrives. I assure you and most solemnly say to you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is taking his time in coming,’ and begins to beat the servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that servant who knew his master’s will, and yet did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will be beaten with many lashes [of the whip], but the one who did not know it and did things worthy of a beating, will receive only a few [lashes]. From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.​

Um, yeah. Jesus said that.

this motivates me all the more to step out into what i'm (and all if they listen) am being called to in this last of days .."the harvest "

 

[Farine]

this motivates me all the more to step out into what i'm (and all if they listen) am being called to in this last of days .."the harvest "

And God will equip, position, arrange and bring into order what you need. I've seen it time and time again.

A few posts back was the one about the whole counsel of God. One has to keep the prior post in mind--the absolute authority of Jesus as King with this gracious invitation as Healer and Teacher. [Matthew 11:24-30] Amplified

At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth [I openly and joyfully acknowledge Your great wisdom], that You have hidden these things [these spiritual truths]from the wise and intelligent and revealed them to infants[to new believers, to those seeking God’s will and purpose]. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son [deliberately] wills to reveal Him.​

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace],and I will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me[following Me as My disciple], for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest(renewal, blessed quiet) for your souls. For My yoke is easy [to bear] and My burden is light.”​

It's all linked. Revelation, restoration of souls, quiet dependency, teaching from God. It requires communication from Him. Notice the word communication. That's not saying necessarily hearing the audible voice in your inner space, though it includes that. There are at least 15 different ways that God communicated in the Bible--I suspect there are more considering there are over 200 languages used on Earth.

Here's the 15 ways I found. You get the idea that God uses a variety of means to make Himself known.

Hearing the audible voice of God in a person's human ears. (1 Samuel 3:4)
Hearing the voice of God in one's mind or spirit .. (1 Chronicles 28:12)
Hearing God at night in a dream... (Genesis 20:3)
An Unbeliever hearing God in a dream.. (Daniel 2:27)
Experiencing God in a Vision …. (Ezekiel 1:1)
(having both sound and sight experiences)
Using sacred lots to determine God's Will.. (Exodus 28:30)
Speaking to a group of people through a song … (Deuteronomy 31:19)
Hearing God from reading Scripture.. (2 Kings 22:11)
Hearing God's Message through an Angel.. (Acts 10:3)
Hearing God's Message through a Prophet … (1 Samuel 22:5)
Perceiving God's Message through a predicted sign..(Luke 2:12 )
Perceiving God's Message through Disaster .. (Jeremiah 44: 28)
Perceiving God's Message through a Miracle..(Daniel 6:27)
Hearing God through His Son, Jesus. (Matthew 13:16-17)

 

[Farine]

Waiting on the LORD.

Every day it amazes me that there is a new topic in my spirit. Writing nearly every day since August 16, 2016 on something related to God's messengers being typically rejected hasn't proved as difficult as I supposed. Usually, this creative flow happens as I wake up --and as you can see from some of the posting timestamps--sometimes early is very early. This example of waiting for GOD to supply something illustrates a few things about the process regardless of its context.

First of all, it does absolutely no good trying to speed it up. Writers all share the experience of staring at a blinking cursor without anything to type. Next, The flow of His thoughts is remarkably different than ours. The essence of the whole is contained in the initial contact then discovery (often upon study and meditation) reveals the details.

So upon waking, here it was. As someone who has been interacting with Him for awhile, remember context matters. God is a God of Order. [ 1 Corinthians 14:32-33] Amplified

for the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets [the prophecy is under the speaker’s control, and he can stop speaking]; for God [who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order.​

Going back to this example, two days ago, the topic was Jesus' right to command and be obeyed. Yesterday was Jesus' invitation to receive revelation, restoration and the expectation of our communication from God. Now the topic is 'Waiting on the LORD'? Not accidental in the slightest. When you get revelation, context provides key details about what God is doing in your life. God has a right to expect you to wait for His Timing on His Involvement.. Furthermore, God expects you to maintain a positive expectation of why God's involved---It's to give you rest, restore your soul and teach you His Wisdom.

Take my friend's employee review for example. He was really nervous about it. Dreading it in fact--not that he's a poor worker-- he has anxiety and these kinds of situations really make it worse. God revealed this week that soon he will be moving to another town and won't even BE at this job. The revelation and the employee review (and the angst about it) are linked events.

God has specific intentions with the timing of His choices. [Psalm 75:1-3] NIV

We praise you, God, we praise you, for your Name is near; people tell of your wonderful deeds. You say, “I choose the appointed time; it is I who judge with equity. When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm...”​

When I went to select a bible verse to illustrate God's use of time in the Bible, I was thinking of a different one. Searching through the various options, His Spirit indicated this psalm. I haven't meditated on this psalm before. Living in Los Angeles, with a recent earthquake warning days ago, this verse was suddenly very relevant. This post is getting long. To be continued....

 

[Farine]

Waiting on the LORD more...

It's been said that the three responses you will have from God to prayer are 'Yes', 'No' and 'Wait'. Here are some striking differences between God's 'No' and 'Wait' replies.

1. 'No' means all closed doors. There isn't a viable option to be found no matter how hard you try and what else or who else is participating. 'Wait' has some encouraging glimpses.. like partially open doors.

2. God's 'No' has confirmation. That is to say, deep down you know you've been told. At the end of all things, when you and God look eye to eye, there will be no dispute about the events where the LORD told you 'No'. But God's 'Wait' is usually this long, drawn out silence. You aren't getting ANY message on that topic. THere can be hope in that--'Hey, so I AM being set up to succeed... it's not yet ready.. "

3. A commentary on Number 1, a "No" from God includes no assigned servants from Him to participate. People may be involved for natural reasons, but not those who perceive His Will. This may be the biggest clue between God's "no" and "wait"--On 'wait", God assigns His servants to you in order to build the connections the future process will require.

4. Dealing with character issues (there was a system reboot on my end at this point) .. There was a time when Jesus had to put his three best disciples out of a room He had invited them into in the first place (the raising of Jairus' daughter). These three disciples would later be A) Peter-the leader of the Jerusalem Church.. B) James- the writer of the Book of James . 3) John -writer of Revelation. At that point, though, they weren't ready to have the proper response to the situation.

 

[Alithis]

can it be suggested that "NO " from the lord can only occur when one is seeking him about tsomethinf he has never promised and as such we must search the motive f our own heart in asking .. for he has promised what ever is his will he will do it, so why are we asking outside his will .?
because it is not his kingdom we are seeking in the asking .
we of course refer to the letter from James at this point .

 

[unfinishedclay]

2. God's 'No' has confirmation. That is to say, deep down you know you've been told. At the end of all things, when you and God look eye to eye, there will be no dispute about the events where the LORD told you 'No'. But God's 'Wait' is usually this long, drawn out silence. You aren't getting ANY message on that topic. THere can be hope in that--'Hey, so I AM being set up to succeed... it's not yet ready.. "

Amazing how this falls within the timing of how the Lord had been dealing with me. No to one dance school for my daughter and the wait on the other. This part is great confirmation.

 

[Farine]

can it be suggested that "NO " from the lord can only occur when one is seeking him about something he has never promised and as such we must search the motive of our own heart in asking .. for he has promised what ever is his will he will do it, so why are we asking outside his will .?
because it is not his kingdom we are seeking in the asking .
we of course refer to the letter from James at this point .

I read this post shortly after you wrote it and had to really meditate on it. That's a good thing. Here are the results... I invite you back to take this topic deeper still.

Many times in this long thread have been the hints that communication between God and people should be present. I think your post makes the strongest assertions that God's communication must be in place. These phrases lead me to that conclusion.. "seeking him about something he has never promised" and "why are we asking outside his will?"

Here's the upside to that level of communication. You and God have such tight rapport that God focuses YOUR attention on something and you KNOW in your knower that this something is for you. Your faith gets activated at a high level. God responds to your faith and you receive that which you believed. Done. Simple.

Let's break this down for those who aren't getting that level of understanding from prayer. There are plenty of people (my sister comes to mind) who engage in the process of speaking to God and feel they aren't getting enough of a response to KNOW.

Again, your post touches on that. "It is not his kingdom we are seeking in the asking." Ok. that covers some of the time when we ask amiss, according to James. I heard a great quote from another poster (sorry don't remember the name) who said not to beg in your prayers, not to focus on pleading. The reason that was given was that there is a lot of unbelief in begging. That made a lot of sense to me.

Back to Kingdom Business. Hello Readers. (wave) If you want to know God's Will, and Alithis is right in saying you should be able to know it, here are some helpful tips.

Don't settle for survival mentality. Fear disconnects faith. If you are full of fear, there are over 300 messages in the BIble that say specifically "DO NOT FEAR".. don't be afraid.. cast your cares.. It is extremely difficult to hear God when you are afraid. Fighting that fear that shouts that God abandoned you to circumstances is very important.

Hey! God's Kingdom is real. Isn't that great news! It's spiritual, yes. But Jesus is coming back to make this spiritual Kingdom a physical reality. There are those of us who are getting our Kingdom Mail. You should too. I think the best place to start is to make the case that God is sending out signals that some of us are receiving and some aren't. If you aren't picking up on this Kingdom frequency, ask the Holy Spirit to tune your inner equipment. The desire to have this communication is part of what needs to be addressed.

If you have a situation where you have two options and honestly don't know which one you should take, OR you have a situation now but don't know the future (legacy) ramifications, this is a perfect opportunity to try this whole communication thing with God out. He can hear you perfectly. The real issue to be sorted out is how are God's thoughts going to arrive in your life. If you want to discuss particulars, PM me or even write it here (remember you're anonymous..)

 

[Farine]

Amazing how this falls within the timing of how the Lord had been dealing with me. No to one dance school for my daughter and the wait on the other. This part is great confirmation.

Thank you so much Unfinished to let me know that God is working in this discussion. What interests me about your post is not only that God spoke, but what God spoke about. God is involved in decisions like which dance school your daughter attends. It's true. Not just the big, weighty decisions like which career we should pursue or which partner to respond to, but these daily choices as well.

I have discovered that God cares which day I take off to rest, what I'm eating (and why I'm eating it). These nudges from God always have strong positive outcome. Somewhere in this whole dance school adventure are blessings from the LORD. I look forward to reading what the praise report is....

 

[Farine]

Silence.

There are times when God is silent. That has been mentioned in terms of waiting on God. There are times when people are silent. When you have been sent to people to give truth to them, this is one of the reactions you can receive.

1 Kings 18:20-24

So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”​

But the people said nothing.​

Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”​

Here is another example.

Mark 3: 1-5

Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”​

Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.​

He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.​

Both of these examples reveal the heart of the audience. Each short sentence says volumes about their lives. They were in the presence of the truth, but they would not associate with it or acknowledge it in any way. Note: These are not good silences. You might liken this silence to something like this:

There is even a name for it. The Silent Treatment.

Its definition: an act of completely ignoring a person or thing by resort to silence especially as a means of expressing contempt or disapproval.

So from these two examples in the Bible are two responses from God through His Servant. Both take the form of a demonstration. It should be noted that there really isn't a rebuttal to a demonstration. Elijah's response was a wager which the people accepted. Jesus' response was a healing which could only be done by the GOD who made the Rest on the Sabbath.

The truth comes with its own power to defend itself. The demonstration of living out truth is extremely effective to deal with the contempt or disapproval of the audience. It may not be fire from heaven which vindicates you, or a miracle of healing. There is a secure promise of vindication for the Servants of GOD.

Isaiah 54:14-17

In righteousness you will be established: Tyranny will be far from you; you will have nothing to fear. Terror will be far removed; it will not come near you. If anyone does attack you, it will not be my doing; whoever attacks you will surrender to you. “See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc; no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and this is their vindication from me,” declares the Lord.​