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True Meaning Of Sacrifice

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by ABenShema, Dec 4, 2007.

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  1. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    All the ancient world religions have an idea of, belief in, or requirement for sacrifice of some kind. However, the original 'Spiritual' meaning of the Law of sacrifice has, in most cases, been lost or misunderstood. The original Law of God required that each of us sacrifice (i.e. make Sacred / Pure / Holy) our own initial (i.e. ‘first-born’) animalistic (beastly / carnal / unspiritual) nature, through the purifying ‘flame’ (= God’s 'Light') of Truth, in order that we might be ‘reborn’ (resurrected) into Spiritual consciousness (i.e. ‘True and Eternal Life’) – or, to put it another way, we must each abolish (‘kill’) our own (initially) ‘beastly’ (carnal) nature. This original and Eternal Law was (and still is) falsely interpreted by various materialistic / literalistic priesthoods to mean that God requires the bloody slaughter of (‘first-born’ and ‘pure’) human or animal victims, to absolve the sins of humanity! Isn't this precisely why orthodox Christianity, following Paul, has interpreted Jesus’ crucifixion in the same carnal way (i.e. as a ‘blood’ sacrifice for our sins).

    The only way to achieve this genuine Sacrifice of the 'lower' self is through the practice of genuine Gnosis, i.e. Mystic Communion with the Light of God.

    N.B. The word 'sacrifice' actually means (in its original usage): 'to make sacred'. It has nothing to do with bloodshed or killing!

    Peace, Love, & Understanding :)
     
  2. Tawhano

    Tawhano Northland Highwayman

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    What is the source of your information that makes you believe this is the proper meaning of sacrifice? I looked up the meaning in Hebrew and Greek and they both signify a slaughter of a sacrificial animal.
     
  3. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    "Sacrifice": from Latin sacrificium "making sacred" (any good dictionary will tell you this)

    The idea of 'blood' (animals / humans) and other offerings came from the various ancient 'orthodox' priesthoods, and ascribed to God ~ merely a way of making money and holding power over the common people.

    Peace, Love, & Understanding :)





     
  4. Tawhano

    Tawhano Northland Highwayman

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    In other words you are attributing a modern definition to ancient words. It doesn’t work that way. If you want to know the definition of a word from antiquity you don’t look it up in “any good dictionary” you consult a lexicon of the language you are researching.

    I understand your position but what I wanted to know was your source for coming to this conclusion.
     
  5. Solidlyhere

    Solidlyhere New Member

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    I would say that the OP has this sacrifice thing backwards.

    "This original and Eternal Law was (and still is) falsely interpreted ... to mean that God requires the bloody slaughter of (‘first-born’ and ‘pure’) human or animal victims, to absolve the sins..."

    In the beginning, Cain and Abel BOTH performed sacrifice.
    Abel sacrificed lambs to God; God was pleased with this sacrifice.
    I doubt that Abel would have killed the lambs, unless God had told him to do it.

    Later, Abraham (also) sacrificed to God, a ram.
    God specifically ordered Abraham to do it.
    (This was after God's order to kill his first-born son.)
    And, he instituted other animals to sacrifice for differing issues.

    MUCH later, Jesus told people to pass on killing the animals.
    And, 40 years after that, ALL of the Jews stopped their animal sacrificing.
     
  6. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    Latin is a very ancient language, and that used by all educated Romans since antiquity.

    The ancient Hebrew word for 'sacrifice' (which is used in e.g. Gen 8:20; 22:2; Lev 16:9; 17:8; etc.) is spelt: 'ayin - lamedh - he (I can't write the actual 'Hebrew' letters here), and means: "to go up, ascend, rise; [N] to be lifted up, withdraw, be exalted; [H] to take up, set up, to sacrifice; [Ho] to be offered up, be carried away, be recorded; [Ht] to raise oneself up; from the base meaning of rise in elevation comes the fig. extension “to exalt, honor,” as the lifting up of a person in status." i.e. to rise up above our animal nature, to the Spiritual realm AND thus be made 'SACRED' ~ which comes from the same Latin root as 'SACRIFICE.'

    Peace, Love, & Understanding :)



     
  7. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    Don't you consider it possible that the priesthood / scribes altered and composed some things in their scriptures? Things which brought them personal wealth and authority! The later Prophets (even before Jesus) often condemned their blood sacrifices as evil, and said they were never required by God (I can give you many OT references if you wish).

    Do you really think that a perfect and true God would ever need to change His (PERFECT) Laws and Commandments? Don't you believe that God's True (Spiritual) Laws are ETERNAL and PERFECT?

    What do you believe God is? :eek:

    Peace, Love, & Understanding :)
     
  8. gwilenius

    gwilenius Member

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    It would be worthwhile to note the first Biblically recorded killing of ANYTHING was performed by God Himself in Genesis 3:21, in which God made tunics of skins to clothe Adam and Eve. Granted, the killing is implied, but I doubt God just manufactured the skins without shedding blood. Sacrifice is symbolic and required in the eyes of God as atonement for sin. It is clear, when read in perspective of the book of Hebrews, the OT sacrifices were required - the blood of the animal replaced the blood of man, because if God demanded a man be killed for His sins, then no one would be alive. As such, He provided a covenant means to make atonement so man can continue to live, although he would eventually die. When eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, God had instructed man that if it were touched, they would die (Gen 3:3 - Eve just repeated what she had been told). Satan deceived her by saying they would not die, which was, essentially a half-truth. They did not die immediately, but they did die eventually because God withdrew His presence - God abhors sin, and both Adam and Eve were now sinful through their disobedience.

    Satan knows God is one of His word, and if Man could be deceived into sin, then God would have to destroy man according to His word (...lest you die.) Now God was in the position where man pushed Him away through sin, and now death must now take place. However, God created a new covenant in that the blood of an animal could replace the blood of man to forebear man's death. This required only a pure animal, without blemish, spot, defect, or anything else. The blood would cover man's sins in such a way that when God looked at man, He no longer saw the sin nature, but saw the blood which atoned for it.

    The Law of Sacrifice was essential, and is fully explained in the scripture. Jesus Christ was without sin, without blemish - and God had appointed Christ to be the final blood offering for man, essentially tricking Satan himself into having the sacrifice performed through the wickedness of the world system of which Satan controlled. Christ was falsely accused, falsely judged, and was killed for sins He did not commit, and knowingly and willfully became that final sacrifice which once and for all ended the need for a blood sacrifice. His blood undid all the damage Adam did in the beginning and explains the relevance behind Roman 5:12 and 5:18 which states that through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and by one man (Christ) justification for life came into the world.

    To say literal blood sacrifice was not intended is absolutely without merit according to the scripture. Jesus had to shed His blood, blood had to be spilled. Shedding blood was required. This was the Law, and Jesus knew this. He also knew that He had to die as a sacrifice. Adam disobeyed God, but Christ as a man obeyed God. If one says blood sacrifice means nothing, then they have no understanding of the scripture. it is stated plainly and clearly in Hebrews 9:11-14

    But Christ came as a High Preist of teh good things to come, with hte greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Chris, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    The rest of Hebrews 9 provides more details, describing exactly what Christ did. The physical sacrifices the Jews performed in the Temple were but a copy of what needed to be done in Heaven to make atonement. Christ came in the flesh, shed His physical, literal blood, and died, physically and literally. He then entered the Most High Place in Heaven itself, and presented Himself before God as THE sacrifice once and for all.

    There is no mysticism with God, the mystery of salvation and redemption has been made plain and clear, as is our relationship with God through Christ in our prayer, faith, working of miracles, and exercise of the authority Christ has passed on to us. Incidentally, some may claim that Christ did not really walk on the earth in the flesh, but in the Spirit. One could then say the shedding of blood was only figurative, but this is not consistent with the scriptures, and is absolutely refuted in 1 John 4:2-3:

    By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the Spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is now already in the world.

    Such is "Mystic Christianity" - If one says Christ did not walk in the flesh, then their faith is not of God. Clear and simple - and it is evident these same beliefs were being propagated at the time of the Apostles, otherwise they would not have warned of their presence. Just because a belief is old, recorded, or practiced in ancient times, does not make it correct. Only those which align with scripture are true, and the scriptures provide clear tests as to whether one's faith or beliefs are Godly.
    Incidentally, the Jewish sacrifices stopped in (about) 70 AD because the temple was destroyed and there was no location to properly perform the sacrifice according to the Law. The Jewish religion knows this, which is why effort is being taken to restore and rebuild the Temple - and the steps currently being taken to construct the Temple items, even breeding genetically pure red heifers to sanctify the utensils (source: http://www.templeinstitute.org)
     
  9. Solidlyhere

    Solidlyhere New Member

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    The OP makes some un-clear statements: "Don't you consider it possible that the priesthood / scribes altered and composed some things in their scriptures?"

    What do you suggest?
    That Cain and Abel DIDN'T perform sacrifice?
    That Abraham wasn't told to sacrifice his son?
    That Abraham didn't sacrifice that ram, left there by God?

    If it is your opinion that Animal Sacrifice was "cooked up" by later Scribes ... well, that is your opinion. Certainly you are entitled to believe anything you want to.

    And: "Do you really think that a perfect and true God would ever need to change His (PERFECT) Laws and Commandments?"

    I absolutely DO think that God changed His laws.
    Jesus came, and announced the NEW laws.
    Jesus told people to stop keeping Kosher, to do (former no-nos) on the Sabbath, and several other things.
    Jesus opened up Heaven, for all of these new followers ... Christians.
    Yes, things changed BIG time, when Jesus came.

    And: "What [Who] do you believe God is?"
    A Being Who created the Earth as a place where people can be tempted by Satan.
    A Being Who (much later) sent Jesus Christ to Earth, to teach us about Love -- Love God, Love God's other creations.
    Then, by following the NEW law, we get a chance to a FUN Afterlife.
     
  10. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    In reply to both Gwilenius & Solidlyhere ~

    First of all ~ HAPPY BIRTHDAY :clap: to Gwilenius!!!

    I will answer all the points that you both make here when I have enough posts to allow me to link you to the necessary info (it is far too much to copy everything here). Please be patient and I will get back to you both soon.

    PLU :)
     
  11. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    In reply to both Gwilenius & Solidlyhere ~

    Here is the LINK (CLICK HERE) to another thread which should answer all the questions you raised. You will need to read all four posts in order to get all your answers.

    PLU :)
     
  12. Solidlyhere

    Solidlyhere New Member

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    Hmm, I ask you some questions.
    You don't answer them.
    Instead, you point to someone else's answers?

    Way to go.
     
  13. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    Actually the first and last posts on that site were written by me (I am the Admin on the site)!

    PLU :)
     
  14. Solidlyhere

    Solidlyhere New Member

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    Gee, OP, are you so lazy that you can't answer questions?

    Or, is this a SHAMELESS advertisement for your other Forum?
     
  15. Tawhano

    Tawhano Northland Highwayman

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    When I asked for a source I was meaning a scholarly source and not your own interpretation. I can not find the definition you give about rising up from our animal nature as a definition for sacrifice used in the Bible. In short you are making this up or getting it from your religious teachings and have no sources to quote to add any credibility to your claims.
     
  16. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    What do you expect to find from the annals of orthodoxy ~ the Truth?

    Do you really think orthodox scholars know the Spirit of God?

    Do you know where to look for Reality and Eternity and Infinity?

    You would prefer it all written in a book?

    Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

    Peace, Love, & Understanding :)
     
  17. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    I am a member of many forums, and make a large number of posts each day. The simplest and quickest way to answer the same questions from different people is to refer them to where I have already written on a particular subject.

    It is merely a question of economy (of time and effort).

    I started my own forum specifically for those few people who are interested in genuine Gnosticism ~ not the ancient heretical sects ~ but the very Knowledge of the Mysteries of the Spirit (Elohim). There are no other such sites on the internet (as far as I know), only pseudo-gnostic pretensions.

    I find that very few are interested in genuine experiential Truth - most simply prefer books and chatter. Most seem frightened to see the hidden Light, perhaps because it would show up all their errors. Evil always keeps to darkness, and where the Light is, darkness cannot rule.

    PLU :)
     
  18. Tawhano

    Tawhano Northland Highwayman

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    It’s a simple matter really, words are words and it doesn’t matter if they are inspired or not the definitions of the words do not change to suit your argument. If you can’t give me the source of the definition you came up with then the evidence points to you simply making it up and I choose not to believe a single word you say simply because you think you have the inside scoop on what is truth and what is not.
     
  19. Solidlyhere

    Solidlyhere New Member

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    The OP is really full of it: "The simplest and quickest way to answer the same questions from different people is to refer them to where I have already written on a particular subject."

    I don't agree.
    The simplest way is to copy and paste.
    This is ESPECIALLY so for the reader.

    So, just HOW lazy are you, OP?
    I asked you some YES-or-NO questions.
    Why don't you answer these questions from Post #9?

    "What do you suggest?
    That Cain and Abel DIDN'T perform sacrifice?
    That Abraham wasn't told to sacrifice his son?
    That Abraham didn't sacrifice that ram, left there by God?
     
  20. ABenShema

    ABenShema GNOSTIC

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    Believe whatever you like.

    The Truth is the Truth, and will never change.

    Words and language are continually changing. The word 'awful' is a good example - what does it mean now? what did it mean two hundred years ago?

    But, as I said their are far higher authorities than book knowledge and worldly scholars. Jesus had little good to say for their attitudes and abilities.

    PLU :)
     
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