Tongues & Misreading 1 Corinthians 14th Chapter

[Biblicist]

These two verses should give us the clearest understanding of why 1 Corinthians chapter 14 is in the Bible.

1. The church at Corinth was ABUSING the spiritual gift of speaking supernaturally in foreign languages. (It is always glossais or languages that Paul is speaking about). Hence the injunction to let all things be done decently and in order.

2. This chapter (not chapters 12 and 13) was written specifically to CORRECT THE ABUSES. That is from verses 2-40.

3. The time of writing was somewhere near 57 AD. At that time the complete written New Testament was not in the churches. Therefore the supernatural gifts of prophecy (direct revelations from God), tongues (also direct revelations from God see Acts 2:11) and knowledge (direct revelations from God) were being exercised in the churches.

4. The Holy Spirit (through Paul) revealed that the time would come when THE NT WOULD BE COMPLETE ("that which is perfect" = that which is complete -- 1 Cor 13: 8-10) therefore prophesies, tongues, and knowledge would cease. That is both logical and spiritual.

5. However, at the time of writing, it was necessary to say "covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues". That Scripture is constantly referred to by Pentecostals/Charismatics today as their authorization to do what they do. But is really applied to the church at Corinth, and until the apostolic period was finished (90-100 AD).

6. Now that the apostles and prophets are what we have in Scripture (2 Peter 1:15-21; 3:15,16) the ministry gifts are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. These are necessary to ensure that babes in Christ attain spiritual maturity.

7. The sad fact is that Bible Truth is not being properly, diligently and rigorously taught to Christians, and many are being "carried about with every wind of doctrine". Evangelists are frequently not preaching the true Gospel, pastors are frequently neglecting to actually "shepherd" their flocks, and teachers are frequently teaching the doctrines of men. We live in the time when "some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils" (1 Tim 4:1).

I see that you have chosen to remove the Offices of the prophet and apostle from the list mentioned in Eph 4:11; is there another passage which mentions that these two roles will cease before the Lord returns?
For that matter, in 1 Cor 12:28 Paul tells us that the Father has placed within the church eight congregational offices, which are;

• Apostle
• Prophet
• Teacher
• Powers (aka, miracles)
• Healings
• Administrations
• Helps
• Tongues

I see that you have made a number of unsubstantiated presumptions regarding the cessation of much of the ministry of the Holy Spirit; but as four of these 8 Offices are the outworking of the Holy Spirit, are there any passages which indicate that these four Offices that I have marked in bold text will cease before the return of the Lord?

1. The church at Corinth was ABUSING the spiritual gift of speaking supernaturally in foreign languages. (It is always glossais or languages that Paul is speaking about). Hence the injunction to let all things be done decently and in order.

Paul makes it very plain in chapter 14 that absolutely no one will ever be able to understand what someone says as they pray to the Father through the Holy Spirit. In 1 Cor 13:1 Paul precedes his comments in chapter 14 with, “If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels,…” where he tells us that when we pray in the Spirit (tongues) that we are doing so in angelic or heavenly tongues.

 

[Job8]

I see that you have chosen to remove the Offices of the prophet and apostle from the list mentioned in Eph 4:11; is there another passage which mentions that these two roles will cease before the Lord returns?

Biblicist2,

When we read 1 Cor chapters 12-14, we should accept the fact that they were (1) primarily written to teach the Christians at Corinth and (2) secondarily to teach the Church is all ages. Paul makes it crystal clear in 1 Cor 13:8-10 that three spiritual gifts would CEASE and VANISH AWAY -- prophecies (prophets), tongues (supernatural revelations through supernatural speaking of foreign languages), and supernatural knowledge (apostles). This is not ordinary knowledge, otherwise it would make no sense (ordinary knowledge flourishes today), and since it is listed with spiritual gifts, it must be supernatural. Context is key.

The reason for the withdrawal of these gifts would be that "When that which is PERFECT (COMPLETE) is come, then that which is "in part" shall be done away (v.10). That is why apostles (the Gospels, Acts and epistles) and prophets (Revelation and the OT) are to be now found in the complete Bible. The apostles had all passed on by 100 AD. We also know from Church History and the writings of the Early Church Fathers that none of those men ever claimed the offices of apostles and prophets. Modern "apostles" and "prophets" are fraudulent.

Paul makes it very plain in chapter 14 that absolutely no one will ever be able to understand what someone says as they pray to the Father through the Holy Spirit. In 1 Cor 13:1 Paul precedes his comments in chapter 14 with, “If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels,…” where he tells us that when we pray in the Spirit (tongues) that we are doing so in angelic or heavenly tongues.

First of all, whenever angels came to earth from Heaven, they spoke human languages. Read all the references to angelic appearances in Scripture. So when Paul says "tongues of angels", it is merely hyperbole to point out to the Corinthians (who were abusing tongues) that even if he could speak angelic language, if he did not have charity it was nothing. This is certainly not an incentive to go around wanting to speak angelic language.

The important point for us today is that genuine "tongues" (Gk glossais) (supernatural language-speaking ability) vanished when the written Word was completed. Modern tongues (glossolalia) are not Bible tongues.

 

[ebedmelech]

I'm of the conclusion that as the church was established, the offices of apostle and prophet died out with the apostles.

As we read the scriptures we see the sign gifts diminishing and I believe God gave these signs to affirm the apostles.

When it comes to tongues, that too is a sign gift as I have learned through the scriptures.

Let's be frank...this debate will continue to go on until our Lord returns.

Lastly, I find it so strange that those who have the healing gifts, never go to a hospital and heal people without charge.

Somewhere I read "freely you received, freely give".

 

[Bro in Christ]

Prophets sprout up accord to God will...

Apostles and prophets were able to do signs and wonders 2 cor 12:12 , eph 2:20

Yet this time is of faith and grace not signs and law different times different rules

 

[Job8]

Lastly, I find it so strange that those who have the healing gifts, never go to a hospital and heal people without charge.

Somewhere I read "freely you received, freely give".

And those claiming the gift of tongues go out to the mission field and preach the Gospel in foreign languages they learned supernaturally.

As to the so-called "prayer-language" that is once again a misinterpretation to suit the tongues movement of today. What Paul is saying in 1 Cor 14:14-17 is that both our spirits and our minds must be involved in worship simultaneously. Therefore he is not encouraging prayer in an unknown tongue, but rather the reverse (v. 14): "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful". And that is not a good state of affairs.

 

[Biblicist]

Biblicist2, When we read 1 Cor chapters 12-14, we should accept the fact that they were (1) primarily written to teach the Christians at Corinth and (2) secondarily to teach the Church is all ages. Paul makes it crystal clear in 1 Cor 13:8-10 that three spiritual gifts would CEASE and VANISH AWAY -- prophecies (prophets), tongues (supernatural revelations through supernatural speaking of foreign languages), and supernatural knowledge (apostles). This is not ordinary knowledge, otherwise it would make no sense (ordinary knowledge flourishes today), and since it is listed with spiritual gifts, it must be supernatural. Context is key.

When it comes to the importance of Paul’s teachings in 1 Cor 12, 13 & 14, the Pentecostals and charismatics will agree with you in that his writings were written for all believers up until the Parousia where the Lord returns to establish his Kingdom.

When it comes to the meaning of teleion in 1Cor 13:10, many cessationist authors including Benjamin Warfield with his book Counterfeit Miracles (1918) have wisely avoided using this passage as they knew full well that Paul was referring to the Parousia and not to the completion of the Scriptures. If we consider that for many centuries that the vast majority of believers were forbidden from owning a copy of the Scriptures and that Rome made great efforts to keep the Word of God from the average believer, then the argument that teleion is referring to the written Scriptures quickly falls flat.

The reason for the withdrawal of these gifts would be that "When that which is PERFECT (COMPLETE) is come, then that which is "in part" shall be done away (v.10). That is why apostles (the Gospels, Acts and epistles) and prophets (Revelation and the OT) are to be now found in the complete Bible. The apostles had all passed on by 100 AD. We also know from Church History and the writings of the Early Church Fathers that none of those men ever claimed the offices of apostles and prophets. Modern "apostles" and "prophets" are fraudulent.

So yes, when the Lord returns to establish his Kingdom then there will be absolutely no need for us to have to pray in the Spirit (1Co 14:15; Rom 8:26; Eph 6:18; Jude 1:20) as we currently do. When we eventually stand before the Throne of God as we praise him, we will be praising him with our understanding which is not what we are able to currently do as we pray in the Spirit. Of course it could be argued that as we now speak in angelic tongues (1Cor 13:1) when we are praying in the Spirit, that as our normal heavenly tongues will then be also in an angelic tongue, that they are one and the same but the main difference is that we will be praising him with our understanding.

1 cor 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.​

Paul’s choice of words is interesting in this passage in that the rightfully says that when we are established in the future Kingdom of God that prophesies will be (katargēthēsontai) “done away” as we will have absolutely no need of the prophetic function; with knowledge he uses the same Greek word as we certainly will have no need for the Holy Spirit to provide us with any additional revelation. When Paul refers to praying in the Spirit (tongues), he uses a different Greek word (παύσοντα&#953 “they will cease”, which can imply that something will change as it is currently being used. This could be implying that as we can currently only pray in angelic tongues through the Spirit, when we are standing before the Throne and praising God then we will be doing so in a new natural angelic/heavenly tongue.

As for the role of the apostle (note the lower case ‘a’), these are the same as our current missionaries who are involved in church planting so the role of the apostle/missionary is still alive and well; no modern day apostle/missionary can claim to be equal to that of the Twelve (and with Paul). As for the Office of the NT prophet there are millions of individuals who are operating in this role and as no legitimate word of prophecy will ever contradict God’s Written Word then the Office of the NT prophet and God’s Written Word complement each other superbly. If you feel that God does not provide his children with any specific revelation then you are then forced to reject that God answers the prayers of his children as any answer to our prayers are revelation, though they cannot be equated with the Revelation of God's Written Word.

First of all, whenever angels came to earth from Heaven, they spoke human languages. Read all the references to angelic appearances in Scripture. So when Paul says "tongues of angels", it is merely hyperbole to point out to the Corinthians (who were abusing tongues) that even if he could speak angelic language, if he did not have charity it was nothing. This is certainly not an incentive to go around wanting to speak angelic language.

Yes, I could not imagine an Angelic messenger coming down to an Israelite where the Angel tries to converse with the Hebrew in either Greek, Germanic or Arabic – that would seem to be a bit pointless. When we pray in the Spirit we are doing so through the Holy Spirit as he intercedes on our behalf so I would expect that he would be communicating to the Father is some form of Angelic/heavenly language; I’m sure that you would agree that the members of the Trinity do not employ sign language.

The important point for us today is that genuine "tongues" (Gk glossais) (supernatural language-speaking ability) vanished when the written Word was completed. Modern tongues (glossolalia) are not Bible tongues.

When exactly was the Written Word completed; if it was around 80-90AD then we have many accounts of individuals praying in tongues which have been recorded by a number of these early churchmen. As for them being human languages, we have no Biblical example where this has happened and even with the Day of Pentecost, when the Believers were praising God, their words were being directed to the Father and not to the nearby Jews who could not make any sense out of what was happening. If Peter had not stood up to explain what was happening the Jews would have walked away thinking that these rustic Galileans were in fact drunk and simply laughed off the whole event.