Toleration Doesn't Cut Both Ways

[stamperben]

I think the chaplains have more important things to do these days then worry about the sexual persuasion of their charges.

At Fort Myer, Va., a small Army base across the river from Washington, D.C., Chaplain Mark Worrell is talking to about 100 soldiers, reciting the grim numbers.

"This year, 2012, there have been more suicides in the Army than combat deaths," he says.

 

[TScott]

THe bolded portion is exactly as it should be. What is problematic is the prohibitions that prevent the preaching specific topics such as homosexuality being a sin...

You should be aware that not all Christians preach that, or even believe that is true. That is Old Testament Law, and Paul's condemnation of it is based on that as well. As much as many fundamentalists would like, Paul did not have authority to determine sin-and there are those that are Christian, who are not fundamentalist who believe that.

If the Army finds that it would be disruptive or not in the best interests of the Army for it's Chaplains to preach hateful things then they should abide by that or GET OUT. They are employees just like everyone else.

 

[DaisyDay]

I do not know if Christian chaplains have been ordered not to tell Muslim soldiers what the bible says about Jesus being the one and only way of salvation, I do know that Christian chaplains have been ordered not to tell homosexual soldiers that homosexuality is sin or that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Why pick on Muslims? Jews don't believe in salvation by Christ, either.

I think it depends on whether the prayer has forced attendance or not.

 

[Tangled24]

THe bolded portion is exactly as it should be. What is problematic is the prohibitions that prevent the preaching specific topics such as homosexuality being a sin, marriage being between a man and a women, etc. The limitations placed on religious expression are the problem, not those self identifying as homosexuals. Regardless of their proclivities, they are people who deserve to hear the truth, not some whitewashed version approved by the COC.

Have you been to a service overseas or talked to a chaplain? Its mostly about overcoming struggles and dealing with issues revolved around deployment, not so much "traditional" church services where marriage etc would be brought up. They are too busy dealing with possible suicides, hanging out in the aid station during mass casualty events, helping soldiers deal with death, loss, and injury, dealing with soldier quilt related to killing, helping soldiers through problems back home, separations, etc

That is what the chaplain is for. That is their job. Those things I just mentioned are WAY more important to the Army than preaching about which gender you should marry. The chaplains hard is a job one, and everyone I have ever met has done a great job and I have never heard talk of them being "forced" to preach one thing or another. They are great friends to us while we are there, and to me, this topic is not and will not be an issue

 

[Illuminaughty]

Are they allowed to tell straight people that marriage is only between two people of the same sex and that they need to repent and become gay?

 

[MachZer0]

the repeal of DADT has resulted in limitation on religious freedoms as detailed in the OP article.

We have people right here in this thread calling for restriction on religious freedom

 

[MachZer0]

Well they should be intolerant of intolerance. Do you find them to be intolerant of other things that they shouldn't be?

It should be similar to freedom. If you for freedom then you are against slavery. Freedom doesn't mean the freedom to own slaves. Slavery is, by its nature, against freedom. If you are for freedom it isn't hypocritical to be against certain actions.

That's the classic response, "intolerant of intolerance", which is the definition of intolerance itself.

 

[MachZer0]

I think the chaplains have more important things to do these days then worry about the sexual persuasion of their charges.

If a homsexual comes to a chalain for advice regarding his sexuality, the chaplain should be free to tell him the truth

 

[MachZer0]

Are they allowed to tell straight people that marriage is only between two people of the same sex and that they need to repent and become gay?

Are there any chaplains who believe that?

 

[iluvatar5150]

If a homsexual comes to a chalain for advice regarding his sexuality, the chaplain should be free to tell him the truth

Whose truth?

-Dan.

 

[MachZer0]

Whose truth?

-Dan.

The actual truth

 

[Paradoxum]

That's the classic response, "intolerant of intolerance", which is the definition of intolerance itself.

Except that it isn't though is it.

Also you don't tackle my analogy to freedom. There isn't freedom for anti-freedom.

 

[IanCG]

The actual truth

"you have nothing to worry about, there is no god"?

 

[RedPaddy]

You should be aware that not all Christians preach that, or even believe that is true. That is Old Testament Law, and Paul's condemnation of it is based on that as well. As much as many fundamentalists would like, Paul did not have authority to determine sin-and there are those that are Christian, who are not fundamentalist who believe that.

If the Army finds that it would be disruptive or not in the best interests of the Army for it's Chaplains to preach hateful things then they should abide by that or GET OUT. They are employees just like everyone else.

I am aware that not all Christians preach or beleive that. I am however unswayed by the actions of others and will stick with what the bible teaches.

 

[RedPaddy]

Have you been to a service overseas or talked to a chaplain?

yes and yes.

Its mostly about overcoming struggles and dealing with issues revolved around deployment, not so much "traditional" church services where marriage etc would be brought up.

yes, there are on every single base I've ever been on, and that is a decent sized number.

They are too busy dealing with possible suicides, hanging out in the aid station during mass casualty events, helping soldiers deal with death, loss, and injury, dealing with soldier quilt related to killing, helping soldiers through problems back home, separations, etc

they are ministering where there is need. that's the role of chaplains the world over.

That is what the chaplain is for. That is their job. Those things I just mentioned are WAY more important to the Army than preaching about which gender you should marry. The chaplains hard is a job one, and everyone I have ever met has done a great job and I have never heard talk of them being "forced" to preach one thing or another. They are great friends to us while we are there, and to me, this topic is not and will not be an issue

Unfortunately the military has decided that some chaplains have to hide the truth from those they are ministering to. that's what this thread is about. Very sad it has come to this but not totally unexpected.

 

[RedPaddy]

Are there any chaplains who believe that?

Not sure but I'd start looking over in E&M first. /snark

 

[TScott]

I am aware that not all Christians preach or beleive that. I am however unswayed by the actions of others and will stick with what the bible teaches.

Which is your right, up to a certain point. If your child hits you, you do not have the right to kill her, or him, as taught in the Bible. Nor do you have the right to kill homosexuals, as is taught in the Bible.

But the point here, the point of the criticism in the OP is this: If an employer hires a Minister, should the employer have the right to restrict what the Minister preaches? Of course that employer has that right. If a Baptist Church hires a Minister who decides to start preaching out of The Book of Mormon, I think they would have every right to restrict him from doing so. If the Military hires a Minister, they too have every right to restrict the Minister from preaching or counseling soldiers counter to Military policy.

 

[LutheranChick]

No they don't. The article in the OP is an unsourced opinion piece. He could well be lying.

The opinion piece is based in part, on this article: LifeSiteNews Mobile | ‘Get in line’ or ‘resign’ Admiral tells military chaplain

Debate the merits of the news article, but at least know there is a source to the article referred to in the OP.

 

[RedPaddy]

Which is your right, up to a certain point. If your child hits you, you do not have the right to kill her, or him, as taught in the Bible. Nor do you have the right to kill homosexuals, as is taught in the Bible.

TScott, are you aware of the difference between old testament and new testament and that the Mosaic law of the OT is not applicable to Christians?

But the point here, the point of the criticism in the OP is this: If an employer hires a Minister, should the employer have the right to restrict what the Minister preaches? Of course that employer has that right. If a Baptist Church hires a Minister who decides to start preaching out of The Book of Mormon, I think they would have every right to restrict him from doing so. If the Military hires a Minister, they too have every right to restrict the Minister from preaching or counseling soldiers counter to Military policy.

If I hire an electrician and then tell him to ignore code can he legally do that?

 

[RedDead1981]

TScott, are you aware of the difference between old testament and new testament and that the Mosaic law of the OT is not applicable to Christians?


If I hire an electrician and then tell him to ignore code can he legally do that?

If you hire an electrician can you tell him to go and mess around with your neighbors wiring? The military has the right to ask of soldiers things that we normally wouldn't even think to ask of a civilian.