Todd White - Street Healer

[unfinishedclay]

I didnt bring billy graham up.
I dont actually agree with the sinners prayer as a means of salvation but only a step towards it..
What my take is on what you posted..is simple...
Its all opinion and hot air untill you yourself Go and walk in obedince to the lord jesus. He commands his deciples to Go..heal the sick,preach the gospel ,drive out demons,baptise in his name ,making more deciples and teaching them to also do All that he has commanded.
When you are doing that..then your words will no longer be mere doctrinal opinions .

This is basically what everybody is saying in the thread? Right? I mean, everybody can definitely agree with what Jesus commissioned us as believers to do and His commission to His followers never ceased - I hope that's what everybody does agree on both sides. because I don't know who Todd White is. I don't know who Torben is. Till this thread. And knowing those men and all that is said about them does not change what the Lord has told us to do in His Word and day-to-day being led by Him. Thinking of all the accusations/conflict of views among believers, so many names come to mind even in the epistles. Paul vs. James, John vs. Diotrophes, (possibly)the sisters in Philippi Philippians 4:2 and others.

But if we as believers educate one another on what we see God's Word says, which is a discipling that involves perseverance without the implications of somebody not knowing Christ, we can focus back on the harvest (which is ripe among those many many unbelievers)? Won't keying in on the actions of a few men throw us off track? People are dying in their sins. And the times are getting worse.

If somebody indicates on their website that their doctrine is erroneous, they have a contact button that will help address the problem head-on. And go back and forth until the delivery of the message is complete according as the Lord leads. In the ghetto, where unlearned men and women whom I've seen/joined to go out and share what has been received from the Lord (salvation and the filling of the Spirit), there is no time to argue theology on battleground - where in the projects and streets, people need salvation in Jesus Christ and holy walk in Him and then also need miraculous healing. Obedience becomes, "okay, Lord."

John 10:49-50
"And John answered and said, 'Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy Name, and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.'
"And Jesus said unto him, 'Forbid him not. For he that is not against us is for us.'"

 

[Alithis]

not exactly what every is saying but the point of your post is a timely reminder and i receive it

 

[Razare]

When I got into this water baptism movement, and saw the results, I had to go back and learn what happens to people who do the sinners prayer... was I saved before water baptism? What was the deal?

God taught it to me. I'm the only Christian who knows that I am aware of... maybe someone out there somewhere knows, but God has been teaching it to me over the course of this year, well in advance of doing water baptisms for people.

And after I learned it, it's just plain English as to what was written in scripture. Plain jane English, but when I quote the scriptures that state everything plainly, no one agrees ... the Bible can't be true in what it says! We got to filter it and revise it by theology... D:

 

[unfinishedclay]

This is merely an opinion. How can the blind guide each other? How can the deaf preach to another? So then, how can those who have false doctrines disciple each other?

Do you really believe the Lord works this way?

No.I don't believe anybody following a false doctrine can disciple anybody? Where is the false doctrine that you're pinpointing? Are you a cessationist? (Just learned word and meaning a few years ago.) But is that what your concern is all about? Is your concern about the men mentioned who might can be contacted on their websites? Correct them in the Word. That's what we do amongst each other. Or are we to address one another with the approach that the Pharisees took?

No, I don't believe the Lord called the blind to lead the blind. His Word clearly points on they'll both fall into a ditch (Matthew 15; Luke 6:39)

There is a difference between being blind and being a correctible/maturing follower of the Lord Jesus Christ (all followers live a life under His guidance and correction for ongoing growth). If we live as if we have no more need of ongoing growth - 2 Peter 3:18, purging (John 15:1-6), being built up/corrected within the Body by one another (I Corinthians 5 as an example), and continued correction that sometimes requires chastening by the Lord (Who chastens only those who belong to Him as a reminder that correction to this degree is shown to those who belong to Him - Hebrews 12), then aren't we being like Pharisees?

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all I possess."
And the publican, standing afar off, would not life up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, "God be merciful to me a sinner."
I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Brother, the sin of this Pharisees' attitude has never expired. It's still self-righteous ( and Jesus told us that, except our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees - who were accusers, questioning even Jesus' doctrine and the doctrine the apostles preached in Acts, and who THOUGHT sinfully EVEN if they did not WALK out those sinful thoughts. They couldn't recognize their wretched need to be saved and THEN the need to remain upheld. They couldn't understand a need to lean on the Lord and not be proud of themselves for being "better" or more enlightened as they perceived themselves in comparison others who were unlike them) And that attitude is widespread. It attacks sinners and fellow saints alike.

I understand leeriness of someone who displays gifts of the Spirit and yet not display fruit of the Spirit. I understand the need to examine for the fruits. After you examine, then what? Suppose those you're correcting really ARE blind but show fruits of HUNGER and THIRST FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Are you aligning yourself up with Scripture as a child of the LORD, to do as He did, and be a vessel used in order that those blind, who are hungry and thirsty for God's righteousness, will get filled? Or are you forming accusations? Taking a bat with your own blindfold and go among whom you see as blind and start swinging wildly all around the place.

Focus, Brother. Focus on the Word and tap into your obvious passion to enlighten. Distribute the Word. And if you see the Word being used in what you perceive as error, then meet people on common ground of that HUNGER AND THIRST FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Matthew 5:6) and teach like the Lord Jesus Whom you are convinced you represent.

And if you can't find agreement with what you perceive about the Word and those whom you correct, well then you have a long prayer list as do those whom you correct.

 

[unfinishedclay]

Hello "Unfinishedclay",

You made a very long post, and I'll attempt to address it.



I'm not a "cessationist". The false doctrine and false ministers I'm reffering to are the very people we are talking about here such as Todd White, Torben, Billy Graham and etc. That's who I'm pinpointing. How about correcting in the truth that they reject, that they are not ministers of the Lord. They are worst than the Pharisees, because they are claiming to be something they are not. So I rather approach them much like how the Lord approached the hypocritical Pharisees such as:

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.


Right, so what makes you think you can reason with those who are deaf, blind, and dumb when you yourself don't know the Lord?



You and I are not brother and sister in the Lord. Basically what you are saying is that one shouldn't "attack" the blind and saints alike as the Pharisees did. However what your missing is that you call the Pharisees your brothers, whom are really devils masquerading as the Lord's people. These people are not of God, and those are the people you are aligning yourself with.


What is it that your trying to say here? That one should preserve a rotten apple because it wishfully hopes to be a good apple? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing these people thirst for or hunger for is for their idea of God, not the truth in Jesus Christ.

The questions you are posing are equivalent to me asking you "why you beat your husband every night". Let's focus on what's actually relevant.

Do you believe the Billy Graham hungers and thirsts for righteousness?

Are you free from sin?

While your at it read:
Is Your Profession of Faith Vain, Christian?

You quiz with numerous questions just to form more accusations. You make many accusations about people whom you don't know personally - not even able to examine people's fruits from where you read/type - diagnosing by people attempting to explain the importance of God's Word in our lives. You give diagnoses and no solutions. So, then evangelize. But if you do, what do you even base it on considering you negate all regard for God's Word?

I cannot remember listening to one Billy Graham sermon in its fullness. I've heard reports of error concerning him and cannot remember the error. I don't know who Todd White and Torben are. My faith is not based on who I accuse. It is based on the fact that, at one time, the devil could point out why he could accuse me but now I'm set free from my sins and the wrath of God by the blood of Jesus Christ, Whom I have received by faith in Him as my Savior and my Lord.

And I am CONVINCED, now being adopted as a child of the Father by the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, of this, DUDE (if you don't want to be called "brother"):

"...that neither death, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present (like unfounded accusations), nor things to come (like likely more unfounded accusations), nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature (such as yourself), shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (not in YOU, who didn't die for us)" - Romans 8:38-39

Jesus was accused of not being who He said He was. What makes me think I won't be accused either?

 

[Alithis]

staff edit

well its vying off topic but sure ..
yes i pray for the sick in Jesus name and he heals them
yes i obey the lord Jesus in what he is speaking to me about .. beginning with what he has already told us to do in his word .
yes .. he showed me i had sin ,i confessed he is right and did not deny it - and he cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness ... next question ..or shall we go back to the topic ..

God heals today.
As i like to say , If you ask me does God still heal today then i must reply , "do rainbows still appear in the clouds when it rains"? .. since when did god Change his promises ?

 

[Alithis]

this is merely an opinion. How can the blind guide each other? How can the deaf preach to another? So then, how can those who have false doctrines disciple each other?

Do you really believe the Lord works this way?

i must agree with what others have asked .. where is the doctrine you deem to be "false " ?

 

[Alithis]

staff edit

i missed this post ... the doctrine for salvation is very simple its called the gospel .. the GOOD NEWS of Jesus ..
it is first ,a message to all man kind - the Lord Jesus ,,the speaking of god , became flesh ,one of us , he was put to death for OUR sin .. he lay in the ground 3 days and 3 nights and rose again from the dead that whoever believes on him would not perish but have ever lasting life .
and second ,a set of instructions to be obeyed .- that all men every where must repent , be baptized for the remission of sin and you will receive the holy ghost .

you'll find it in Acts ch 2 .
for those that disagree with it being a message with instructions to be obeyed .. consider the warnings in the scripture for those who DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL ... they are dire .

and no, i don't consider the Apocrypha to be scripture.
nor am i a king James preservationist .. .in case that's where your heading .. there is no old English bible in Chinese sorry .

(now while i see these tactics often-i'm not unaware of them . You've asked questions raising topics and issues that are not the original topic ..so that you can then attempt to refute the side line topics and then claim you have refuted the original topic .. which amounts to "a straw-man argument ".. and that where your heading . )

the fact remains that you have entered the thread .made a number of accusations against some people you have never personally met ,claimed they are teaching a false doctrine and yet have not presented what the false doctrine is .

so your turn to ANSWER some questions .

 

[tturt]

In the course of things, after we disagree for awhile in these discussions, wonder why things get personal. It's getting out of line guys.

We're never going to agree on every topic. Let's be respectful. We're all one body after all.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[farout]

Just been watching some stuff on him.

He said that it took 3 months of no one getting healed and 500 people before he saw his first "miracle" or "healing" (leg growing out).

Now he has lots...

a) Why is this (the time factor before this thing manifests)

b) Why are the miracles always low key..in the nicest sense. ie backs, legs, hands, shoulders etc.

BUT NEVER IT SEEMS AN AMPUTEE GETTING HIS HAND or ARM growing back ?

Just wondered...

The leg growing out is the oldest trick by faith healers have> garbage I say.

 

[tturt]

"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." I Cor 12:28

 

[jiminpa]

The leg growing out is the oldest trick by faith healers have> garbage I say.

Hmmmm, who to trust, God or the guy sowing doubt? I think I'll go with God.

 

[Alithis]

The leg growing out is the oldest trick by faith healers have> garbage I say.

are you So sure ?
i mean i agree -not all legs moving to align mean anything at all .it can be just cheap tricks .. not denying that for a second .
However .. the other week i prayed for a lady with back pain down one side of her back and leg . (a sign if a mild pinched nerve i think . )
you have to understand ,there was no audience, other the her granddaughter , no cameras, no show, no spectacle ..just a lady in pain . i prayed for her back , nothing happened , prayed a again , nothing happened . she was still in pain .
sat her on a chair checked her legs ,,ans sure enough they were out of alignment . so i commanded the leg and spine to come into alignment . .. it did . now her feet aligned .this STILL MEANS NOTHING .. ... so what -her feet align right ?

BUT ..here is what matters .. we got her up to walk and all the pain had now vanished and she was a very happy lady and gave glory to god for her pain was healed .
that - is the point .. not the feet aligning ,

 

[tturt]

Thanks for the testimony.

 

[Freedom Now]

The leg growing out is the oldest trick by faith healers have> garbage I say.

You are entitled to your opinion. ...

I just happen to be one on the receiving end of having a leg grown out....


So let's say if 80% are nothing but fake healing tricks, does it mean that the other 20% are not real?


You could say the same about speaking in tongues, if 90% were counterfeit, does that mean the
other 10% are not real?


Or if 99% of professing "christians" are not really following God , does that mean that the 1% are not
true followers of Christ?


Once you realize that Satan is the master of counterfeiting and has lots of experience to deceive us,

then you also have to realize, in order to counterfeit anything, you need the real thing in order to

counterfeit it.......

 

[farout]

You are entitled to your opinion. ...

I just happen to be one on the receiving end of having a leg grown out....


So let's say if 80% are nothing but fake healing tricks, does it mean that the other 20% are not real?


You could say the same about speaking in tongues, if 90% were counterfeit, does that mean the
other 10% are not real?


Or if 99% of professing "christians" are not really following God , does that mean that the 1% are not
true followers of Christ?


Once you realize that Satan is the master of counterfeiting and has lots of experience to deceive us,

then you also have to realize, in order to counterfeit anything, you need the real thing in order to

counterfeit it.......

I sincerely hope you are stating the absolute truth. Do you have medical proof? By that I mean documented evidence that your leg truly grew out by so many inches?

I can tell you that many so called healings are mostly psychological, or there is no way to prove these healings. Having been a pastor I have seen what some of these "healers" have done. Oral Roberts was one of the most notorious phony healers. He took millions of dollars from people promising the use of his Hospital in OK. But when one woman I became aware of needed to have her kidney removed he would not help her. By the way this woman and her husband gave thousands of dollars (25 thousand) to his healing hospital. When he refused to help her, she and her husband came to me for help. I was able to help them get a MO state medical assistance, to get her kidney removed.

I do believe in healing, but not the way Todd and Benny Hinn do it. I have had a healing done by the Holy spirit, documented by medical evidence, that even doctors say it was unbelievable. That is a genuine healing. I instructed people to pray I would be in the center of Gods will. That way no matter how I turned out people knew it was Gods will for me.

Now I have shown my medical records to several groups and at church, that was in 2004, people are having a seed planted by my witness even today, God get the Glory, not a man in front of a crowd praising a person. The whole thing gets to who gets the Glory!

 

[jiminpa]

I sincerely hope you are stating the absolute truth. Do you have medical proof? By that I mean documented evidence that your leg truly grew out by so many inches?

I can tell you that many so called healings are mostly psychological, or there is no way to prove these healings. Having been a pastor I have seen what some of these "healers" have done. Oral Roberts was one of the most notorious phony healers. He took millions of dollars from people promising the use of his Hospital in OK. But when one woman I became aware of needed to have her kidney removed he would not help her. By the way this woman and her husband gave thousands of dollars (25 thousand) to his healing hospital. When he refused to help her, she and her husband came to me for help. I was able to help them get a MO state medical assistance, to get her kidney removed.

I do believe in healing, but not the way Todd and Benny Hinn do it. I have had a healing done by the Holy spirit, documented by medical evidence, that even doctors say it was unbelievable. That is a genuine healing. I instructed people to pray I would be in the center of Gods will. That way no matter how I turned out people knew it was Gods will for me.

Now I have shown my medical records to several groups and at church, that was in 2004, people are having a seed planted by my witness even today, God get the Glory, not a man in front of a crowd praising a person. The whole thing gets to who gets the Glory!

The "oh God if it's Your will to do what You say" healing. I am truly glad that you got healed, but Todd White's method is actually biblical. I'm sorry that that is a problem for you. I get that we are His servants, but He lays out what He, in his love, wants us to believe Him for, and to then settle for anything less is actually disobedience. Yes, it is noble sounding disobedience, but still disobedience. Then worse yet, religious people actually demand that others join in that disobedience and place stumbling blocks against faith in God's promises, and whatever is not of faith is sin.

I'm not there myself, but I desire to leave this unbelief I struggle with behind and believe God over my own sight.

 

[jiminpa]

I sincerely hope you are stating the absolute truth. Do you have medical proof? By that I mean documented evidence that your leg truly grew out by so many inches?

I can tell you that many so called healings are mostly psychological, or there is no way to prove these healings. Having been a pastor I have seen what some of these "healers" have done. Oral Roberts was one of the most notorious phony healers. He took millions of dollars from people promising the use of his Hospital in OK. But when one woman I became aware of needed to have her kidney removed he would not help her. By the way this woman and her husband gave thousands of dollars (25 thousand) to his healing hospital. When he refused to help her, she and her husband came to me for help. I was able to help them get a MO state medical assistance, to get her kidney removed.

I do believe in healing, but not the way Todd and Benny Hinn do it. I have had a healing done by the Holy spirit, documented by medical evidence, that even doctors say it was unbelievable. That is a genuine healing. I instructed people to pray I would be in the center of Gods will. That way no matter how I turned out people knew it was Gods will for me.

Now I have shown my medical records to several groups and at church, that was in 2004, people are having a seed planted by my witness even today, God get the Glory, not a man in front of a crowd praising a person. The whole thing gets to who gets the Glory!

Oh, and by the way, why should we care if they can be proven? Is man true and God a liar? apparently to many here.

 

[jiminpa]

I'm sorry, I really am, but all of this, "did God really say?" on a supposedly Spirit-filled forum wears on me after a while.