To the gentlemen: When considering women's clothing, what is your stumbling block?

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You are coming at me in a societal view and that is not my framework. I am not asking what I should wear so that guys will not objectify me--that is not my purpose. I am asking men, what am I wearing that is causing you to sin, so I know what I can do to make that struggle a lot easier for you. I understand that it is a two way street, but if I am wearing low tops where my breast is out in the open, then regardless if I'm ignorant of the fact that you're sinning and regardless if that is not my purpose, I am making it difficult for you and I have done my part to be a stumbling block.

I know that I can wear what I please, society have taught me that. My hope is to wear clothing that will both honor God and help out the guys. It is nothing if someone asks me to cover up my breast. I get no power or strength if my breasts are exposed so if someone come up to me and says "hey, I'm lusting because of what you're wearing" regardless if it is HIS fault that he lusted, if I can buy pieces of clothing that will help him in his struggles, then it's worth it.

I don't care about the idea of objectification. I didn't ask that question with that in mind nor have I ever felt pressure to wear certain things to please guys, I just want to help out my brothers in Christ.
I don't think it is as much with what you're actually wearing as it is a matter of the misinformed unhealthy heart of another. My reference for this is what I can gather about life in the OT and early church.
 
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jsimms615

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I want to thank you guys for the response. It is very beneficial for me to know this because I don't want to be a stumbling block to guys because of my clothing. I know how visual you guys are and whatever I can do to minimize any type of lust, I am willing to do it withing reason.

To those who think it is somehow backwards to ask for the guys opinions, I understand that society say that I can wear whatever I want, I also know that I have the freedom too, but my goal is first and foremost is to honor God, to love and help my brothers and sisters in Christ and to love those around me. One of the ways I feel that I can do to help the brothers out is to know what it is that is causing them to sin, so that I won't be their stumbling block. I'm not asking this as someone who has an archaic way of thinking, I'm asking this as a sister in Christ to help my brothers in Christ. I also understand that the responsibility is also on the guys but if I can have a conversation with a man and they are not distracted or lusting after my "blessings" then I would consider it a good thing.

As long as we are being completely honest here, it would not matter some days if a woman was wearing a paper bag with no shape at all to it. Other days she could walk in front of me half naked and I might not notice. Other days simply the perfume or proximity would be enough to challenge me. I don't know that there is one thing that I could say to you not to wear.

There are other factors besides whether your in the room or not. What kind of mood I am in and how lonely I might be would be other things. How stressed out I am has an effect also.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I think a guy can look with admiration of beauty and not sin while his body does involuntary things he can 't help.

So I see the question as when does it turn to sin? Since we aren't very healthy in this respect, it is a very real problem causing other problems.

Lust, it would seem, involves more than simply triggering unconscious physiological reactions or pure physical attraction; objectifying seems to be a key element here. Looking upon another as an object, seeing in another a thing serving a purpose that gratifies my own selfish desires.

There exists the natural appetites of the body, these are things we are genetically, biologically, programmed to require: eating, sleeping, drinking, and sex. Sex is how we pass our genetic material to the next generation, and it is a drive common to all living organisms--survive and reproduce. Sin, in part, involves the malformation of these appetites from healthy biology to unhealthy obsession. Self control is a virtue as it demonstrates that we are not slaves to our appetites, they don't control us, but we control them.

Lust is the malformation of the perfectly natural biological function of attraction and the bodily instinct toward reproduction; it is a malformation because we become enveloped by it, and though the kernel is still natural biology it has become malformed, twisted, and thus becomes expressed in such ways as it is both other-destructive and self-destructive.

"Be fruitful and multiply" is the good commandment of God to all creatures. But it is tempered with, "Do not lust" and "Have self-control".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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daydreamergurl15

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So it doesn't matter if non-Christian guys stare at you?

If you read my first post, you'll notice that I said that I'm asking my brothers in Christ and with what they are saying to me, I can apply that to the male population. If I know what my brothers are stumbling with I can cover up for them, and generally what Christian guys struggle with non-Christians does as well, so if I cover up for my brothers I know that I will be doing the same for non-Christians. But not only that, my purpose behind it, is to help my brothers because they are struggling with that sin, generally a non-Christian guy probably will not see anything wrong with it and they might not really care that they are lusting.

If I seek to honor God, and coverup for my brothers I know I will also be covering up for non-Christians.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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I don't think it is as much with what you're actually wearing as it is a matter of the misinformed unhealthy heart of another. My reference for this is what I can gather about life in the OT and early church.

I think it is a misunderstanding, that reply was meant for another poster. :)
 
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daydreamergurl15

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As long as we are being completely honest here, it would not matter some days if a woman was wearing a paper bag with no shape at all to it. Other days she could walk in front of me half naked and I might not notice. Other days simply the perfume or proximity would be enough to challenge me. I don't know that there is one thing that I could say to you not to wear.

There are other factors besides whether your in the room or not. What kind of mood I am in and how lonely I might be would be other things. How stressed out I am has an effect also.

Thank you for that and I know there is only so much I can do to help. And when it comes to the point that there is nothing I can do, then self-control will be more on your (guys) end. It always is but you know what I mean. :)
 
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Rev Randy

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But i think .. what i was trying to say .. it's not so much the clothing . but the soul under the clothing of the body . the clothing just accentuates the effect of what is already percieved in the inner soul . that's why some can pull off an outfit and others cannot . some souls don't try to provoke people to lust at all . it's really a power game .. sometimes a matter of attention .. it's a subconscious part of the person .

the clothing itself is just a distraction in some cases but the verse doesn't actually address the deeper issue .. because most people are not aware of their own motives .. that deep . so that's why the rules were made up . in consideration of the men . that's it . if you don't care . then you don't care . honestly there's so many issues with church .. that i generally fellowship through empathy . i can't take in what is produced only in church environments . it makes me really sinful . but i'm sure i'll overcome it someday .
So it's the soul/persona of a woman that is a stumbling block to you? I must have read that wrong.:scratch:
 
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I'm sorry. I disagree with anyone that says that it doesn't matter what a woman is wearing, and it's all on the man who looks. That's very true: it is the man's responsibility to control where he looks, but a woman shouldn't be showing off too much of what her mama gave her! It's absolutely unacceptable to say that if the man could control himself completely she could wear whatever she wanted.

That's like saying: ok folks, control your kids, pets, teenage drivers and mailboxes, because my new speed limit is 180mph. Sorry, pal, it's a two way street.

Now, if a woman is properly dressed and a man is still lusting like crazy over her looks, that's his fault. She did all she could by dressing modestly.

Women, watch what you wear. Men, don't stare at what you shouldn't be staring at. It's not a hard concept
 
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Rev Randy

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I'm sorry. I disagree with anyone that says that it doesn't matter what a woman is wearing, and it's all on the man who looks. That's very true: it is the man's responsibility to control where he looks, but a woman shouldn't be showing off too much of what her mama gave her! It's absolutely unacceptable to say that if the man could control himself completely she could wear whatever she wanted.

That's like saying: ok folks, control your kids, pets, teenage drivers and mailboxes, because my new speed limit is 180mph. Sorry, pal, it's a two way street.

Now, if a woman is properly dressed and a man is still lusting like crazy over her looks, that's his fault. She did all she could by dressing modestly.

Women, watch what you wear. Men, don't stare at what you shouldn't be staring at. It's not a hard concept

It's the man's fault if she's naked and he lusts. Without a doubt a woman should cover up but if she doesn't it's the man's duty to control himself.
If I get drunk and stay drunk for six weeks, I can't shift the sin onto the distiller.
 
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Rev Randy said:
It's the man's fault if she's naked and he lusts. Without a doubt a woman should cover up but if she doesn't it's the man's duty to control himself.
If I get drunk and stay drunk for six weeks, I can't shift the sin onto the distiller.

But the distiller can't think for itself...... If a woman is walking around wearing provocative clothing (I won't even go as extreme as naked) then she may cause a man to stumble, where he normally would not have. I am agreeing with you that men have to control themselves, but you can't have a woman with half of her breasts greeting the world and put all the blame on the men
 
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tall73

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But the distiller can't think for itself...... If a woman is walking around wearing provocative clothing (I won't even go as extreme as naked) then she may cause a man to stumble, where he normally would not have. I am agreeing with you that men have to control themselves, but you can't have a woman with half of her breasts greeting the world and put all the blame on the men

I tend to agree with your thought.

Men are responsible for the sin of lust if they lust after a woman.

Women or men who intentionally tempt someone are responsible for the sin of tempting another.

Mat 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me,
Mat 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:7 "Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!



The devil didn't make you do it. But the devil didn't help things either, and the devil will be punished for leading folks astray. We shouldn't follow his example.
 
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Rev Randy

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But the distiller can't think for itself...... If a woman is walking around wearing provocative clothing (I won't even go as extreme as naked) then she may cause a man to stumble, where he normally would not have. I am agreeing with you that men have to control themselves, but you can't have a woman with half of her breasts greeting the world and put all the blame on the men

Please don't read me wrong. I'm not saying the woman would not be guilty of tempting. I'm saying that men have no excuse when they sin. Our sin is our fault. Their (women) sin is their fault.
Even if the two get together and sin together each will be accountable on their own. No one can make you sin. They can only tempt you.

Flip Wilson used to say, "The devil made me do it." That may have been a good comic routine but it's never a valid excuse. As a Christian we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Isn't self control a fruit? God equips us perfectly. That we don't use what was given unto us is no one's fault but our own.

How a woman dresses is no more a defense than the old excuse used by the rapist that she was asking for it by wearing that tight sweater.
 
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RDKirk

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Well, the politically correct answer on this thread seems to be, "It's all on the guy, wear what you want."

However, there would not be scriptural comment on dress to women if the matter were irrelevant to women.

Whenever someone asks "Is x a sin?" my consistent response is:

Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible but not everything is edifying. -- 1 Corinthians 10

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. -- Romans 12

What was is the reason for a particular clothing choice? Was it to be recognized by others as fashionable? As lust-worthy? One woman who is not even a Christian put that in a blunt manner: "I don't particularly want a bunch of men I don't even know wanting to XXXX me on sight."

But Paul raises the bar: It's not a matter of "is it a sin?" because that's merely adherence to a written code. The question is: Is it profitable to the purposes of God?

Is there a pair of shoes I can select that actually promotes the interests of the kingdom of Heaven? Before one scoffs that the choice of shoes can make a difference, well, think about it for a moment.

Once I start thinking about shoes from God's viewpoint, do I even need a new pair of shoes at all? Perhaps someone else needs a new pair and the money should go there.

You can put on the mind of Christ and determine the will God.

This question goes out to the all the guys out there and I would really appreciate, if you can help me out.

I don't have a problem with modesty per se, but I would like to know what type of clothing causes many of you guys to lust. I ask this because I'll be going through my closet soon, taking stuff out and trying to buy a better wardrobe and I want to keep my brothers in Christ in mind so I won't be a stumbling block for you. Even if you don't know me, I figured since guys are so visual, I can probably take your opinions into consideration and generalize it into the male community.

And if you wondering why I ask this in the general theology forum, it is because of the issue of modesty. God, in His infinite wisdom, gave us women great principles on the way of which we should dress

1 Timothy 2:9-10
9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11
Proverbs 31:17
17 She dresses herself with strength
and makes her arms strong.
1 Peter 3:4
1 Peter 3:4
but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.
However there really aren't any "rules" or "standards" to go by with those verses, I don't know how to apply them to the actual clothing, so I was hoping if I can get a feel of what causes you guys to lust, I would know what to stay away from, within reason. --I'm not talking about that guy that is turned on by anything as long as the girl is walking and breathing.

Scripture on this subject matter would be absolutely appreciated. :)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Thanks, I was concerned that you might be trying to mix Christianity with
Hinduism. It's a very common thang right now.. along with Christians
and reiki etc.
Mixing God's Spirit with the things of darkness.
counterfeits..

can't mix them . different .

oh yeah . i did some experiments to see what's distinctive in Christianity besides those that resemble them . i've noticed there are veryimportant distinctives spiritually . but quite often the manner of teaching devoids those things . which is unfortunate.

??
would you like me to block your posts?
(I'm confused.. because you did not address
anyone... or did you lol)

HELP!

no . i just felt like .. i said chakra so now i'm a hindu .. so if i buy a quran am i now a muslim? it just seemed like a surface observation turned into an accusation . one of my pet peeves
 
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But the distiller can't think for itself...... If a woman is walking around wearing provocative clothing (I won't even go as extreme as naked) then she may cause a man to stumble, where he normally would not have. I am agreeing with you that men have to control themselves, but you can't have a woman with half of her breasts greeting the world and put all the blame on the men
Certainly agree.
 
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Rev Randy

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But the distiller can't think for itself...... If a woman is walking around wearing provocative clothing (I won't even go as extreme as naked) then she may cause a man to stumble, where he normally would not have. I am agreeing with you that men have to control themselves, but you can't have a woman with half of her breasts greeting the world and put all the blame on the men
The distiller(my meaning in that post) is the person working the distilling equipment. I'm quite sure they can think and know that there are alcoholics out there.
I can look upon a woman, appreciate her beauty without desiring to partake of her sexually or I can take it to the next step and desire her. The choice is mine.

I am not saying that women who dress purposely to attract the lustful looks of men are not also in err. That would be a separate sin or wrong of of being a temptress. I'm saying it's not an excuse I would argue before the Lord. A cause might be the reason we sin but not an excuse that works.
 
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sunlover1

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I've found when what is worn directs my eyes to a woman's "energy centres" or chakras . sometimes my head gets stuck in there for a little while . but i'm getting better at disconnecting immediately . it's an empathy thing . i don't think its the same for everyone .

there's no christian terminology for it so i use vernacular language that is closest . in any case there is definitely a magnetism i notice before i even notice the person is there .
I see that this (Because of the "vernacular" you used), is being overlooked,
and you do have a great point.
But it's not "energy centers" or "chakras" and since you do know Christian
words to use, and since this is a Christian site, it might help if you just used
those?
You could be speaking of the "lust of the flesh"
Or you could be experiencing spiritual activity

THAT may be the "empathy" thing you refer to, and I think you're right,
that in that case, it's not really WHAT she's wearing so much as a more
subtle seductive draw
?
 
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sunlover1

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can't mix them . different .

oh yeah . i did some experiments to see what's distinctive in Christianity besides those that resemble them . i've noticed there are veryimportant distinctives spiritually . but quite often the manner of teaching devoids those things . which is unfortunate.
Which is why I didn't and wont just ignore such references as being
interchangeable.
I have friends who I am very concerned about mixing this junk.
And I've seen your posts transform over the past year or so, as you've
learned and grown in different ways,... some good things, then some
(IMO) dangerous ideas, etc.
This stuff is NOTHING to play around with.
Don't just assume that every "spirit" is good.

no . i just felt like .. i said chakra so now i'm a hindu .. so if i buy a quran am i now a muslim? it just seemed like a surface observation turned into an accusation . one of my pet peeves
[/quote]
And don't let my questions be a rock of offence to you.
I'm nobody, just a voice, (crying out in the wilderness?) lol
How do I know what you're into or not, hon?
it was a question, meant to cause a discussion.
I'm not your enemy, else I'd be an enemy of God Himself, no?
(I am assuming you're in covenant with the great I AM)

Hope that helps.
If I've offended you, I hope you
forgive me ...
I'm learning to be less offensive
...trying anyhow! :blush:
:crosseo::crossrc::prayer:
 
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sunlover1

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The distiller(my meaning in that post) is the person working the distilling equipment. I'm quite sure they can think and know that there are alcoholics out there.
I can look upon a woman, appreciate her beauty without desiring to partake of her sexually or I can take it to the next step and desire her. The choice is mine.

I am not saying that women who dress purposely to attract the lustful looks of men are not also in err. That would be a separate sin or wrong of of being a temptress. I'm saying it's not an excuse I would argue before the Lord. A cause might be the reason we sin but not an excuse that works.
LOL
"It was the woman that YOU Made, God, SHE made me do it!"
^_^:thumbsup:
 
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