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Time of Year Jesus Christ Was Born

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Standing Up, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    I'd like to explore the different ideas of when Jesus Christ was born. There are three times.

    1) Most Christians believe that it was on 12/25 by the Gregorian calandar, which is about the time of the winter solstice.

    2) Some Christians believe He was born at Passover in the Spring (Nisan) about the time of the spring equinox.

    3) A few Christians believe it was at Tabernacles in the Fall (Tishri) about the time of the fall equinox.

    Why does it matter? Fulfilled prophecy. Truth. Prophecy to be fulfilled.

    I believe our Lord and Saviour was born at Tabernacles (God with us), number 3, for numerous reasons. What do you think and why? Perhaps we can come to a conclusion.
     
  2. boswd

    boswd New Member

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    Most if not all Christians do not beleive that is was 12/25, why would you even post that?
     
  3. Christos Anesti

    Christos Anesti Junior Member

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    Celebrating his birth on that day and believing that he was literally born on that day are two different things. I celebrate the Nativity on the day it shows up on my Churches cycle of feasts. It's possible connection or lack of connection with the exact date Christ was born is not particularly relevant to me.
     
  4. cobweb

    cobweb Cranky octogenarian at heart

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    The theological significance of the timing of the celebrated feast of His birth (as juxtaposed with that of the Forerunner) is obvious. I care very little if it was the actual date.
     
  5. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding Legend Supporter

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    Kool, I cant say either way yet I have yet to study this one out thoroughly bro, but Im glad you brought this up because I am always looking for something that adds to my learning:thumbsup:

    Question though, because of the wording (in the plural and in the singular) for instance, as it says, "To wit, God was in Christ" as in a sort of tabernacling in one tabernacle (singularly) whereas it speaks of the feast of the tabernacles (plurally) do you take this into consideration accordingly? Christ come as one man in the flesh (singularly) but it also speaks of Christ in us (plurally).

    Have you found a distinct difference in the pictures at all?
     
  6. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Really? Folks are simply going along with the flow of tradition, but don't really believe it?
     
  7. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member

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    The Church has never stated that Christ was born on 12/25, however that is the established date of the celebration.

    Truth is... The Church has never said... so, I don't think we know.

    Forgive me...
     
  8. E.C.

    E.C. Active Member

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    Question is...

    Does it matter?

    Is the basis of our salvation going to be whether one celebrated on December 25, January 7 or whatever the date may be exact or not?
    Given what evidence there is about the basis of our salvation I would say... probably not.
     
  9. boswd

    boswd New Member

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    :doh::doh::doh:
     
  10. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Interesting thought. Technically, I'd say Moses built the tabernacle and they had the feast of booths. (literally, booths of branches--so, this: jn. 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.)



    Skenopegia

    the construction of a tabernacle or tabernacles the feast of tabernacles; this festival was observed by the Jews yearly for seven days, beginning with the 15th of the month Tisri (approx. our Oct.) partly to perpetuate the memory of the time when their ancestors after leaving Egypt dwelt in tents on their way through the Arabian desert, and partly as a season of festivity and joy on the completion of the harvest and the vintage (the festival of ingatherings) In celebrating the festival the Jews were accustomed to construct booths of the leafy branches of trees, -- either on the roofs or in the courts of their dwellings, or in the streets and squares, and to adorn them with flowers and fruits of all kinds -- under which, throughout the period of the festival, they feasted and gave themselves up to rejoicing.
    http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=booths&rc=LEX&rc2=LEX+GRK&ps=10&s=References


    and this

    Skenos

    a tabernacle, a tent metaph. of the human body, in which the soul dwells as in a tent, and which is taken down at death


    Hope that helps.
     
  11. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Weird to you, eh?
     
  12. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Oh yeah, 1/7 was also a proposed date.

    Why does it matter? I mentioned in the OP that our Lord fulfilled prophecy, truth, and prophecy to be fulfilled.

    Truth doesn't matter to some. Some don't search it out. Not a problem. See 1 John.
     
  13. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding Legend Supporter

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    Thanks SU theres one I hadnt really gone in depth with, I'll look forward to examining everything :thumbsup:
     
  14. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Guest

    Hey, folks, I celebrate the advent of our Lord each and every day I draw breath here, even though I am never asked to do so on any day according to the Bible. More important to me, is obeying Him in His request to remember his death, burial, resurrection, and second advent as we partake of the bread and wine.

    As for an actual date, a close friend who I trust, asserts that it is probably #3. I am fine with that since it is my own birthday, as well.
     
  15. cobweb

    cobweb Cranky octogenarian at heart

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    Minor correction:

    There are many Orthodox who celebrate Nativity on 1/7, but only because 12/25 for them corresponds to the modern 1/7. There are several places where they still use the Julian Calendar .
     
  16. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    This came from a closed thread. I've snipped irrelevant comments and put the comment in [ ]. My comments are interspersed.

    [ Now let's break down some aspects about the historic Feast of the Nativity/Christmas.

    It's celebrated on December 25th, which in antiquity was the winter solstice--as such a number of solar cults made significant use of this day.

    Why December 25th? The popular theory is that the Christian Church sought to compete against the Pagan solar cults--particularly Sol Invictus--and used December 25th as a means to take focus away from these Pagan observances and observe Christ.

    Let's take that theory as is for the sake of argument. If it is true why is this bad? From a Christian perspective the celebration of Jesus is, of course, better than the celebration of any solar deity, Christ is (after all) True God of True God.

    -snip-

    You want those who worship Mithras or Sol Invictus to have the winter solstice? That's fine. I, however, believe it belongs to the Living God. ]

    Come out of Egypt, come out of her, comes to mind. As well, purge out the old leaven, if you think pagan.

    [ But let's look at it another way as well. There existed a tradition that a prophet died on the day he was conceived--that is, he had a "perfect" life. Jewish tradition maintains, for example, that Moses and David both died on the days they were born. A rather well established Christian tradition maintained that Jesus was crucified on March 25th, and thus was conceived on March 25th. December 25th. ]

    I've heard of this "tradition", but never found references to it. Here's one for us though indicating the time of the birth of our Saviour:

    " According to Jewish tradition, the pillar of cloud by day and of fire by night had first appeared to Israel on the 15th of Tishri, the first day of the feast. On that day also Moses was said to have come down from the Mount, and accounted to the people that the Tabernacle of God was to be reared among them. We know that the dedication of Solomon's Temple and the descent of the Shechinah took place at this feast (1 Kings 8; 2 Chron 7). Nor can we greatly err in finding an allusion to it in this description of heavenly things: 'After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God, which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb' (Rev 7:9,10). "
    http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/edr/tem/view.cgi?book=1&chapter=14

    Shall we celebrate it as given us?

    [ -snip- There is also legitimacy for a winter birth date for Christ. St. Luke records for us that Zechariah, who served during the priestly rotation of Abijah, received a vision of an angel proclaiming that his wife, Elizabeth would have a child. This is the well known story of how St. John the Baptist was conceived.

    When did the priests of the division of Abijah serve in the temple? Once near the end of Iyyar (April-May) and once near the end of Marheshvan (October-November). For the sake of argument let's say that Zechariah was fulfilling his priestly duties during Marheshvan, after which time Elizabeth was found with child. It was in the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy that Mary became pregnant with the Lord--that is, during the spring, ~Iyyar. Nine months later would give Jesus' time of birth sometime during winter, December-January-ish. Which still corresponds with the traditional December 25th/January 6th dates used in the ancient Church. ]

    Okay. This is a solid time marker. As given above, however, the time facts are wrong. Abijah was the eighth division of 24. They served twice a year, BUT all served three times a year for Passover, Pentecost, and Booths (Tabernacles), all were required at the temple. That is the full cycle. So, counting from the start of their year (Nisan 1) and accounting for Passover and Pentecost and Booths (all served), this means John was conceived in June and 6 months later Jesus conceived in early January. John was born at Passover and 6 months later Jesus was born at Booths.
     
  17. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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  18. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    :thumbsup:

    They have concluded as I have (choice #3 in the OP). Much prettier and clearer I might add.

    John was born at Passover and Jesus was born at Tabernacles.

    Their details of the priestly courses also coincide (of course).

    And lastly, the thought comes to mind about John being born on the 15th of Nisan--not the 14th. The 14th was Passover and Jesus is the Lamb of God. In turn, this goes back to the day of Christ's death---the 14th, as Scripture and the other Tradition (through Polycarp, Melito, Polycrates, and others abide).
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  19. RibI

    RibI New Member

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    Your're in the ball park. How about 9/22/4BC?
     
  20. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Between 4 and 5bc.
     
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